CElder Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 I'm wondering if there is a way to customize what dimension text looks like more than what the drop down list of options provides? The default way Chief lays out a dimension has caused my framers issues a number of times since I started using this program. Today's example is that a dimension similar to this screenshot was read as "twelve feet, eleven and a quarter inches" because the 1s are so close together and are the same height which makes it difficult to see how many there are. Now we have fireplace framing that is 5" off-center in a room. (This is not the actual plan, just a sample with the same dimension reproduced). I'd love if we could utilize stacked fractions in a dimension format (like the top option I've created using a Rich Text box) or at the very least be able to customize the format like the center dimension below so that I can place the hyphen between the inches and the fraction to avoid future confusion. Am I missing something in settings or this a huge ask that just can't be managed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renerabbitt Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, CElder said: Am I missing something in settings or this a huge ask that just can't be managed? Not missing anything, and though we don't currently have any options for kerning or subscript/superscript, I could still pose a few solutions. The most obvious being to change to ft-in or fractional inches. The second suggestion being to have a secondary format enabled that is fractional inches. The third being to change your font. The last being to change to decimal feet and inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 I'm for the third option-font. What is shown in the example looks like a somewhat condensed font similar to second from bottom in image. The bottom is a Liberation Mono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 3 hours ago, CElder said: Am I missing something in settings or this a huge ask that just can't be managed? If the framer were mis-reading that correctly, it would be 12' and 11 quarters. So the framing should have missed by 6/4 of an inch. The trades need to take responsibility for their own work, not pass the blame on to the designers or the software (if that is what happened). As Mark mentioned, font choice is critical to legibility for dimensions, as well as text size and the printed document quality and scale being used on site. A font size (in Chief) of not less than 4", printed at quarter inch scale will be clearly legible, or min. 8" for 1/8" scale plans. I framed for 20 years and this issue is pretty simple. The GC points out the mistake, the framer says "doh, sorry" then gets to work fixing it, and learns to be more careful during layout. If Chief were to implement the smaller fractions, the next excuse would be that the fractions print too small and can't be clearly seen. Or the plans are printed at a low quality setting, or photo-copied, and again same issue with the smaller fractional text. And what about us? Don't we spend enough time zooming in and out? I for one, hope that such a change would not be implemented without a user choice. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzira Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 I set all of my Text to Arial. I used to use MyHand2 but the usage of those hand drawn fonts have seen their days. I like the clarity of Arial and can print smaller with more clarity using Arial. It does look like your font (O.P.) is somewhat condensed which could be leading to the issue. But, the big take away for me is to avoid dimensions that end in 1.25". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisb222 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 hours ago, robdyck said: The GC points out the mistake, the framer says "doh, sorry" then gets to work fixing it, and learns to be more careful during layout. This ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisb222 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Gawdzira said: But, the big take away for me is to avoid dimensions that end in 1.25". +1, I avoid 1/4" increments at all costs, except when absolutely necessary as in centerline of a 4x4 or 6x6 But the OP would have the same issue with a 1 1/2" measurement 13 hours ago, Gawdzira said: Those fonts look identical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisb222 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I use Arial Narrow, dimensions look exactly like #3 in Marks example, and have never had this problem Someone's not paying attention 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 IF the 1/4" is not "critical" the dims should be set to the nearest inch as in 12' 1" My goal was to have as few fractions as possible IF needed they were to the nearest 1/2" only critical dims should be more precise than 1" or 1/2" I do agree that Chief could benefit from the suggestion as more options are always nice to have available Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Ok, I'm going to say it....this is yet another reason to change to metric. Throw that on to the pile of 15 million other reasons. In metric you only have whole numbers in millimetres to deal with. For larger scales you have metres so there is a two or three decimal format of the measurement. No fractions at all. No confusion. More precision. Ok, I'll crawl back into my maple tree. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I'm using Century Gothic printing at 4-1/2 height for 1/4" scale, and no problems. Ever been on a jobsite where they're working in metric, and listen to the dimension callouts by carpenters laying out? Sure sounds better that way, but we are stuck with imperial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Michael_Gia said: In metric you only have whole numbers in millimetres to deal with. but you have to memorize and or remember more numbers as most standards were written in imperial. Personally I hate metric because you have to memorize all the conversions. 4' setback, 1.2m, 27" appliance width. is it 0.69m or is it 0.686 or 0.6858. 2x4 is it 38x80 or 38.1x88.9. I can never figure out who decides the number of decimal places. If I have to do metric, such as surveys, I do it in both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, jasonn1234 said: I can never figure out who decides the number of decimal places. There are no decimal places - we use mm, which is as accurate as we need for most construction work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CElder Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 Thank you all for suggesting many solutions that are not even remotely feasible for me. I work for my GC, as an employee. I don't get to tell him how I am going to draw a plan. I do it the way he wants it done. We use 1/4" dimensions literally ALL. THE. TIME. for a variety of reasons that are necessary and cost-efficient in our building process. Maybe it's different where y'all are from but where we are, it's hard to find quality help right now. We employ our own framers and, frankly, it's hard to find people that can read, much less navigate a print properly, these days. Also, my boss has made this mistake while doing calculations a number of times as well but we like the narrow font because wider fonts don't fit between the arrows as well, which adds to the clutter of already congested areas of a print quite often. Being able to move the hyphen to the preferred location between the whole and fraction inches would make it so much easier to read. I just wondered if there was an alternative method that would work for me and my company. Clearly, there is not at this point. I've seen many benefits to this program since switching to it but I've also run into some limitations I didn't have before. Once again, I leave this forum frustrated, without the answers I'm looking for. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey_martin Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 With X13 there is a way to change smaller dimensions, along a dimension string, to show inches rather than feet-inches. Before you could only change the entire string. This may help with the clutter. Rather than having a 2'-2 1/4" in the long string, you can change just that dim to say 26 1/4", which may help you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CElder Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, joey_martin said: With X13 there is a way to change smaller dimensions, along a dimension string, to show inches rather than feet-inches. Before you could only change the entire string. This may help with the clutter. Rather than having a 2'-2 1/4" in the long string, you can change just that dim to say 26 1/4", which may help you. Good to know! I haven't made the switch yet but plan to do so soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzira Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 @Casey, when you have a bunch of clowns, you're gonna' have a circus. Maybe next time you would prefer "No."? I was talking with a contractor last night about the changes in how education happened in the past vs. today. about 30 years ago you would have more journeyman level carpenters on a job site so there was a natural education process on a daily basis. Now, based on chasing money, there are fewer experienced carpenters and therefore they don't have the time and bandwidth to teach as the work progresses. Therefore, the uneducated stay uneducated. If you can not hire good people, make good people out of the people you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdozier Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 I just have to chime in here. Homes have been built for hundreds of years from hand drawn plans. Plans are now digitally printed and it appears the "ones" are too close together? It's just plain "common sense" for the framer - look at the tape measure, is it 12' 1 1/4" or 12' 11 1/4"? If a framer can't read a plan that says 12' 1 1/4", either train the framer to understand what he should already know or get a framer who can read the plan. If you want to cater to his elementary school needs, just set the plan dimensions to have no fractions at all. Dang, I am totally amazed how pyramids were built to their preciseness and we are discussing "ones" being too close! Just my 2 cents... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Wouldn't a fireplace be dimensioned off walls in both directions? Making a 5" disrepancy kind of obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACADuser Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 For the pyramid builders, if they can't read the measuring stick they get a hammer to work with. My builder friend said to make all dimensions from rough framing. Lessens the in-head calculations. So all exterior dimensions are in block modules, 4" or 8" but interior you have to use 1/8" off the block wall (7-5/8") But the rest of the dimension are 1" or at most 1/2". There are always exceptions but we avoid less than 1/2". . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 I do it the way he wants it done Maybe the boss needs to change ? or maybe not ? As a Systems Analyst/programmer I had to tell the boss many a time that it "can't be done" they then get to make a decision of how we proceed from there as you stated we have to follow their decision the "blame" for what happens is on them Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richoffan Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Wow.......Does a team dumb down the playbook to the weakest players or train them to play with the MVPs? I know that doesn't help and I feel your pain with the workforce. What might help is when I want anything centered it's dimensioned to a center line AND the text EQL, EQUAL, HOLD CLEAR, CRITICAL DIMENSION or some such note is added. VIF if I want to pass the buck.... If you highlight the dimension, in the dbx go to segment and you can add the note before or after the dimension. No fractions? Really people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_Canada Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 FWIW, this seems like an economic decision. they want it a certain way, they can make the decision to go to another program if it is that important (or request CA to put it in). You cannot always simply train someone to do better, nor should you if there is another alternative. the goal is typically consistency, if they want a different format to get that consistency, and it is cheaper than training the framer(or redoing work) to go to another program(not saying they will, but saying that is an option), then I think that is their decision, and it may be the best economic one to make in their case. It would be nice if CA took "customer funds" for stuff like this(and maybe they do). CA could quote them to guarantee it is in the next version. If that fee was economic enough then they could choose to stay with CA or not, but it would give them certainty in the decision and give CA a better opportunity to keep them as a customer my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Show us how ACAD looks. Use the same font. Has anyone suggested (in Suggestions) that Chief offer a stacked fraction option? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACADuser Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 When the lead carpenter reads the plan & calls out the dimension to the worker like 15 feet 5 inches & 3 of the little ones. Do you think more training will solve the issue. Or do you stop putting eights on the plans? True story by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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