HumbleChief

Up Votes Down Votes?

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What's with the Up Votes and Down Votes? They cause nothing but harm and absolutely no good - at all.

 

What exactly is their purpose?

 

What good do they do?

 

Why are they there?

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This has been discussed a ton in the past, but I personally think they serve a crucial purpose that cannot otherwise be accomplished in a heavy traffic online forum.  They are really the only real form of positive/negative consequence, and more importantly they’re really the only way of

effectually providing a measurable peer review and serve as a virtual replacement to the real world “reputation”.  There are thousands of users who frequent the forum but never post and I’d venture to say that there are thousands more who only ever stop by 2 or 3 times.  In all cases, but especially in the case of the occasional user, there is no other metric in place that gives them any clue as to whether or not any given user knows what they’re talking about.  
 

I see conflicting information every single day and in every other thread.  The Reputation Point system gives us at least some way of weeding through it in an environment where there’s otherwise no real way to tell the difference between someone who just likes to talk and someone who actually knows what they’re talking about.  

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I see no good and only bad

 

someone with a vendetta against someone else could be a problem 

 

Lew

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1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

This has been discussed a ton in the past, but I personally think they serve a crucial purpose that cannot otherwise be accomplished in a heavy traffic online forum.  They are really the only real form of positive/negative consequence, and more importantly they’re really the only way of

effectually providing a measurable peer review and serve as a virtual replacement to the real world “reputation”.  There are thousands of users who frequent the forum but never post and I’d venture to say that there are thousands more who only ever stop by 2 or 3 times.  In all cases, but especially in the case of the occasional user, there is no other metric in place that gives them any clue as to whether or not any given user knows what they’re talking about.  
 

I see conflicting information every single day and in every other thread.  The Reputation Point system gives us at least some way of weeding through it in an environment where there’s otherwise no real way to tell the difference between someone who just likes to talk and someone who actually knows what they’re talking about.  

 

This is a very offensive statement. If this is what you want then you should open up your own chat room with your own rules. At this point I have to contain my thoughts and be careful what I say.

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So their purpose is for new users to tell if someone knows what they are talking about? So, what if a user doesn't like another user, a user who does know what he's talking about? And how could one possibly know if someone knows what they are talking about by the little clicks and up or down votes?

 

In trying to imagine response from Michael, or Steve Nestor, or ChopBox, or Glenn, or MarkM, to name a few, without the aid of the little ticker counter of brownie points awarded under their names, I read their replies and don't even THINK about how many little points have been accumulated in the reputation score box. Instead I look for content, helpfulness, and knowledge of the program which any post from the above short list and many others have in triple spades - without looking to see if they have a merit badge or two. NEVER look to see how many votes ANY user has in order to measure their competency or their helpful nature.

 

On the other hand I was just in a thread where a user had a different opinion and other users down voted him because he had a different viewpoint. NOT because he didn't understand the program or that he didn't know what he was talking about, but simply because people disagreed. Childish and immature.

 

So once again the purpose is what?

 

What useful purpose do they really serve?

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I find it interesting that some of you who find the point system utterly useless are amongst the first to get in a tizzy when they get some down votes and you also commonly seem to feel the need to hand out a few up votes for no other reason than to help even the scales, for what?  To make sure everyone gets a trophy?  You either care or you don’t.  If you really and truly find them useless, just ignore them and don’t click on them.  

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i could comment on this but i would get negative reps by stating my opinion on my experience on here with a couple dudes. i'd rather be silent and just keep smiling. there are tons of dudes on here i look forward to hearing their feedback on when i ask a question.

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7 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

So their purpose is for new users to tell if someone knows what they are talking about? So, what if a user doesn't like another user, who knows what he's talking about? And how could one possibly know if someone knows what they are talking about by the little clicks and up or down votes?

 

In trying to imagine response from Michael, or Steve Nestor, or ChopBox, or Glenn, or MarkM, to name a few without the aid of the little ticker counter of brownie points awarded under his name, I read their replies and don't even THINK about how many little points have been accumulated in the reputation score box. Instead I look for content, helpfulness, and knowledge of the program which any post from the above short list and many others have in triple spades - without looking to see if they have a merit badge or two. NEVER look to see how many votes ANY user has in order to measure their competency or their helpful nature.

 

On the other hand I was just in a thread where a user had a different opinion and other users down voted him because he had a different viewpoint. NOT because he didn't understand the program or that he didn't know what he was talking about, but simply because people disagreed. Childish and immature.

 

So once again the purpose is what? What useful purpose do they really serve?

 

I just noticed besides the up vote and down vote it looks like there is a third selection to "Like" it by clicking the heart. Its nice to be able to like a post because its just thanking the other person. I agree though I don't like the up and down vote.
I appreciate your statement Larry. Thank You

 

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3 minutes ago, ChiefUserBigRob said:

i figured negative reps means noone will take the time to help ya. they judge ya on them. 

 

Yes, this is not a winning battle for anyone. I am thankful for the help I get on this forum and we should probably agree to just end this thread and forgive and forget what was said.
Love you guys! Please don't hate me!

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4 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I find it interesting that some of you who find the point system utterly useless are amongst the first to get in a tizzy when they get some down votes and you also commonly seen to feel the need to hand out a few up votes for no other reason than to help even the scales, for whar?  To make sure everyone gets a trophy?  You either care or you don’t.  If you really and truly find them useless, just ignore them and don’t click on them.  

I find them utterly useless and can't remember the last time I gave an up or down vote but ignoring them is difficult because of their effect. Some people need a trophy some don't care. Some are hurt by their down votes some don't care but the effect it has on people in the forum is real. Someone was down voted to such a degree that they left the thread. Now that's on their thin skin but the effect is real.

 

I won't down vote your opinion Michael because it's simply that and I think it's better to air gripes out loud instead of a passive aggressive down vote. I have very seldom seen you change your opinion on matters within the forum and won't expect that this time around will be different, but I think the voting system causes much more harm than good.

 

And still can't find a good reason for them. A 'good' reason.

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9 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

 

I just noticed besides the up vote and down vote it looks like there is a third selection to "Like" it by clicking the heart. Its nice to be able to like a post because its just thanking the other person. I agree though I don't like the up and down vote.
I appreciate your statement Larry. Thank You

 

I get it. It's so much easier to click a button instead of confronting differences or simply saying thank you. Imagine they weren't there and you had to actually type the words Thank You?

 

Thank you....

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I like to give an upvote for what I think is good advice. I have only handed out a handful of downvotes.
 

For me - on a lot of topics it’s just easier/quicker to give the upvote than to add another comment that just reiterates the good advice provided by a previous post. 

 

I don’t see any value in giving a downvote to someone just because I don’t think the opinion stated was in my opinion poor advice...I just hear my mom in my head saying “if you don’t have anything good to say - just be quiet”.  If someone has taken the time to try and help someone there’s not much value in just giving a downvote.  

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I don't have any problem with the up-vote. Seems like a nice way to say thank you and for the the individual compiling up-votes their accumulated total demonstrates how helpful they have been. Down-votes are another issue and I have never given one. I would only consider such if someone was just outright disrespectful or intentionally disruptive. I don't believe anyone should be down-voted because they have an opinion that differs from another or even the majority. There are many ways of doing things in CA and though one particular way may seem to be the better down-voting the alternative way is not in my opinion appropriate. Just use the method you personally prefer and move on.

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I sent a private message to Michael asking him not stay away. Might be a good idea if anyone feels lead to do the same.
Just a thought

Thank You

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13 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I find it interesting that some of you who find the point system utterly useless are amongst the first to get in a tizzy when they get some down votes and you also commonly seen to feel the need to hand out a few up votes for no other reason than to help even the scales, for what?  To make sure everyone gets a trophy?  You either care or you don’t.  If you really and truly find them useless, just ignore them and don’t click on them.  

 

Your right, I did the down vote just because your statement p*ssed me off so much and than I thought I better voice my opinion to you directly. I don't have a problem with confronting things straight on and I also don't have a problem with apologizing when I'm wrong.
With that said, I did the down vote with a follow up of how I felt and I will promise that I will never use a down vote again.
My apologies if I hurt your feeling on the down vote.

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Early when they first started using reputation points, I asked for people to give me down votes to see what happens, after 3 down votes Chief then banned me from the forum for a couple days. I learned my lesson a long time ago.

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28 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said:

Early when they first started using reputation points, I asked for people to give me down votes to see what happens, after 3 down votes Chief then banned me from the forum for a couple days. I learned my lesson a long time ago.

 

I was surprised they let me give you 3 down votes.  

 

See you. later today.

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On 8/14/2020 at 8:33 AM, TheKitchenAbode said:

I don't have any problem with the up-vote. Seems like a nice way to say thank you and for the the individual compiling up-votes their accumulated total demonstrates how helpful they have been. Down-votes are another issue and I have never given one. I would only consider such if someone was just outright disrespectful or intentionally disruptive. I don't believe anyone should be down-voted because they have an opinion that differs from another or even the majority. There are many ways of doing things in CA and though one particular way may seem to be the better down-voting the alternative way is not in my opinion appropriate. Just use the method you personally prefer and move on.

I usually stay away from these as I don't see a lot of value in complaining but I do see a value in both the upvote and downvote when used properly.  I stalked these boards for quite some time before I started contributing and asking questions.  In my case when i was newer to the forum If I was researching a question I had and reading through the forums and came across someone who said "do it this way" and I saw a bunch of downvotes, (usually a couple of declining comments as well) and then someone like @Alaskan_Son, @solver, @glennw or another power user come on and say "do it like this" and I see a bunch of upvotes.  It is very easy to see what the general consensus is regarding the best or even the correct method.  If you spend any time on the Facebook groups and see some of the advice (granted the advice on chief talk is at a much higher echelon of quality and precision.) you will see TONS of users who are giving completely incorrect advice on how to do something and basically training bad usage habits, such as manually adjusting walls when an attic wall is not showing correctly instead of going to the attic level to find they had deleted it somehow and there is an invisible wall keeping it from building correctly as a typical example.  Chieftalk maintains a much higher level of accuracy due to the power users being so generous with their time and advice.  If anyone comes on and gives incorrect advice it is almost always corrected and the person researching can see ok this person with 2 upvotes says do it this way or this user with 3000 says this way it becomes obvious which is correct.

 

Now that being said in NO WAYS should they be used for personal vendettas or just because you disagree with their opinion.  But I can understand why in this case some of the downvotes were done because the receiver was telling NEWER users to not do something which the general consensus and even Chief themselves (shown by Dermot's comment) are recommending as best practices and how the program was designed to be used.  This to many appears to be misleading advice and other users (I did not actually downvote it although I was tempted to do so,) helped to show that with the downvotes.  This is the value that I see with the upvotes especially and in SOME FEW CASES the downvote.   Now everyone has their own workflow so to an advanced user as many on this thread are it is basically useless to argue changes to their workflow unless they are requesting information as they are considering adjusting their usage.  But for NEWER users the more advanced users if they feel inclined to comment to help them should be careful about personal opinions regarding new tools or the generally acceptable and recommended workflow practices.  

 

Again my two cents free of charge and I hope it is taken at it's intention as a personal observation of what has gone down on this thread and the other and the viewpoint of how I considered the votes and ratings when I was "stalking" the forums before as a new user.  Hope everyone has an amazing weekend, and stay safe! :)

 

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The system is good for the reason Michael stated except for a major flaw. Voters should be identified. That would largely end catty downvotes, "vendettas" and attacking others simply for their opinions. In a professional forum, such behavior is abuse and this system is easily abused because of anonymous voting.

 

Ending abuse would go a long way to making the system more about knowledge of the program, and less about "popularity."

 

Every other forum I use that has voting shows who voted.

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