Electromen

Ca Is Showing Mistakes That The Architect Didn't See In Revit

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I'm the electrician (sub contractor)  for a large builder of custom homes in the $400K to $1.5M range  The Architect uses Revit.  I receive his drawings in  both print and .PDF forms.

I enter everything into CA, add the kitchen cabinets using the Kitchen Designer's drawings and meet with the customer for electrical design.

They watch a 40" TV while I use the computer, it works very well and the customer is excited to see the house in 3D.  This is done usually before the house is framed.

 

On the last house I found a mistake.  The master bath ceiling had a 45º angle above the vanity and over the shower.  The second floor extended too far into the garage roof.

I didn't think too much about it, I just figured my roof was wrong.  After all, I'm there for electrical, not framing or house design.

We started the wiring Friday and CA was right, there was a 45º angle in the master bath.  The framers had notched into the rafters to eliminate the 45 and have a flat ceiling.  The local building inspector showed up and turned it down.  Now they have to somehow fix it.

 

My question is:

Should I mention that I saw this 3 weeks ago?  Am I interfering with the architect?  Will I end up looking like a know-it-all and have the contractor upset with me?

or

Should I keep my mouth shut?

 

A jpeg is attached showing the problem.

 

post-84-0-63671200-1431269041_thumb.jpg

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Great question.  Ask yourself this,   would you as the designer want to know sooner or later......  I say sooner.....  so yes.... I think you should say something......  if you are dealing with an appreciative architect,  he will thank you.

 

In this business,  I think it is wonderful when one trade looks out for another trades back.  

 

The key is letting him know about the issue without coming across as a know it all.

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You have to have a feel for who you are dealing with. Someone sane like D. Scott Hall would and should be appreciative but there are those who are not as secure in themselves (being nuts) and they might perceive your offering of help as an attack on their reputation or other nonsense. Anyone who does this kind of work can occasionally goof and sometimes those goofs cost unplanned for money, just use your own good sense.

 

DJP 

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I always tell my clients that the contractor and subs should check the plan and if they have questions, suggestions or see an error to please call so I can correct or change it. I am only one person and it takes many more to build a house properly.

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As Sherry said , that is written on every set of plans I see these days , however how would the Framer know it was a Boo Boo?  However something should of been said when someone told him to cut the Rafters and flatten the ceiling , you can't just go around cutting out Structure.

 

Since the situation is already done Err on the side of Caution, even looking at your pics how would you know that wasn't the way it was supposed to be? does it look like a compromise yes but sometimes you have to live with that especially if the Budget doesn't allow changing all the rooflines.

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The contracting business is a little like the military, there is a chain of command.  It's my job to report problems to my immediate superior. 

 

The question for me to ask is "To whom am I directly responsible?"  Is it the home owner, the Architect, the general contractor?  The hierarchy of the contracts will generally establish the path of responsibility.

 

When the guy with the shovel digging the footings sees a problem, it's part of his job to report it to his immediate supervisor, and it will be reported as far as necessary to find a solution.

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We see mistakes all the time in plans that are from Architects. Mistakes such as dimensions not adding up, roofs that don't work, elevations that don't match the plan, etc.. We don't really say anything to anyone except letting the homeowner know of some problems with the plans provided. We never say anything to the Architect for it's not our place to do that nor do we care. We just have to make it right. If we are just modeling the plan from the Architects plan for the homeowner and find that things are not right or don't work, then we just explain that to the homeowner. If dimensions don't add up right or elevations don't match the plans, we can simply tell the homeowner to look closer at the plans.

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I care very much about my clients design and plans and try my very best to have correct and accurate plans. My jobs are all from referrals or old clients. My clients would all tell the contractor to talk to me if there is a question because that is what I get paid for and I represent them. If a contractor didn't care enough to talk to me if they noticed an error they would not be getting any referrals from me.

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I'd much rather hear "Hey I don't think this is right" than "I knew it was wrong all along and didn't say anything." at least beforehand everyone has a chance to fix a mistake before it gets too expensive.

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Ask the contractor first the GC probably gets job leads from the architect GC finds out u went behind he's back ? Talking to the owner all of the GC on this forum know what they would do, the GC will probably do the same think, good luck .

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Then talk to the GC. At least tell someone. None of the contractors I know would be upset if something was pointed out to them that was going to cause a problem or cost money.

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No one here but you knows all the people involved and all the little intricacies of the situation, but based on what you've said, I can't imagine any benefit to saying anything at this point. If you think there's a particular reason to say something or that something good could come from it, great, speak up. If not, I say just leave it alone.

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I agree Michael. Too late at this point.

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too late at this point ....

 

In the future, follow the advice given above

 

Lew

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I would talk with the architect. Tell him you noticed the problem, but thought it was suppose to be like that...it's not all that uncommon for a roof to cut a ceiling plane. Perhaps he will hire you to model more homes and look for things he may have missed.

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Before the fact? Diplomatically mention it to the builder.  After the fact?  Don't even think about it.....

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my 2 cents, you took his PDF file and took your own path to model the house, saying Revit was wrong might not be your best option to state, maybe Revit did see the detection and he just overlooked it. If it effected your pricing or scope its your jib to inform the GC of a change order, otherwise I wouldn't say anything.

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Before the fact? Diplomatically mention it to the builder.  After the fact?  Don't even think about it.....

 

I agree with this Jay's advice 100%.

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This is one reason to keep your sections and elevations live, if it's a view to cad , changes don't register, and becomes a conflict to the plan. Everything live for me. Of course we don't have any control over others.

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Before the fact? Diplomatically mention it to the builder.  After the fact?  Don't even think about it.....

 

Thanks everyone for your advice, Jason thank you for the concise answer.

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Jason got it right in my book. If I was the architect I would be super annoyed if someone told me he noticed something like this 3 weeks ago and didn't say something.

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I once had a boss that told me a story from when he was young architect. He was doing an airport and accidentally wrote 1-1/2" R., rather than 1-1/2" D., for a standard handrail detail. The contractor just smiled and said "nice handrails, huh?" when my boss showed up for a site inspection and found 3" diameter handrails had been installed. The contractor knew perfectly well that it was mistake that a simple phone call could have corrected, but chose to have (an expensive) laugh on my boss. I wonder if that laugh was worth the future lost work and bad feelings that the contractor incurred. I agree with the majority here that questions ahead of time are welcome, and pointing out mistakes afterwards will just shoot you in the foot.

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I once had a boss that told me a story from when he was young architect. He was doing an airport and accidentally wrote 1-1/2" R., rather than 1-1/2" D., for a standard handrail detail. The contractor just smiled and said "nice handrails, huh?" when my boss showed up for a site inspection and found 3" diameter handrails had been installed. The contractor knew perfectly well that it was mistake that a simple phone call could have corrected, but chose to have (an expensive) laugh on my boss. I wonder if that laugh was worth the future lost work and bad feelings that the contractor incurred. I agree with the majority here that questions ahead of time are welcome, and pointing out mistakes afterwards will just shoot you in the foot.

Would you call that passive/agressive behavior?  I agree with you  Richard,  let's cover each other's back because we all make many mistakes in our job,  and our mistakes can be expensive,  so let's help out an associate.

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Oh BTW  I think even the guys at CA have made a mistake or two,  go figure.  

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