dshall Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I drew plans for a remodel. On one wing of House we had hip roof. Ordered truss calcs. Submitted plans to city, before we pulled permits we changed hip roof to gable. Plans show gable roof. The trusses on permittted plans are shown as gable. Plans are correct. Permit pulled, contractor is building remodel, he orders trusses, trusses are delivered with hip set. They should of been gable trusses. I never sent plans to truss company to revise trusses calcs. Who should be held liable, Me, the contractor or the truss company? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Whoever was responsible for reviewing the truss calcs before placing the truss order would be responsible I would think. Have a great bonfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I'd say its the contractor. If you had "for construction" drawings that had the gable drawn in then its his fault for using the permit set. That is a fairly common issue and why most firms label the drawing sets "Permit Set" and "For Construction" set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, dshall said: Who should be held liable, Me, the contractor or the truss company? The contractor should have checked what he was ordering matched the permitted plans. I would say he now has some extra trusses to use on another job 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 He should be able to just build a stick frame gable over the hip trusses. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_NY61 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Whoever happened there is between the truss company and the contractor... If he gave the right plans when he placed the order, assumingly the truss company "should go over them" to make up the truss order. That said, I think they had another set of plans (the original), and when the contractor called to place the order there is a possibility he never gave them a revised set, and he said "we good to go on that order" and he got the wrong trusses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Whoever orders the trusses is responsible (contractor) but you might owe them a lunch. Homeowner should not make changes after engineering is complete. You should at least have a disclaimer for that if it's not already in your contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Sounds like Greg is right , the Contractor A.S.S.U.M.E.d you had sent the revised plans to the Truss company ( not really your Job ) and now you both look bad..... but you should be Okay if the standard Plan Note I see all the time is there about the Contractor verifying everything on Site etc. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDandD Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 At end of the day why would you be sending anything to the truss people? As a builder, they should control that flow of info. They are also responsible for the order. Did you order the trusses? (no). Then if at the time the builder had the correct plans and "ordered" the trusses of a prelim plan, it is his issue. I dont take my "not for construction" watermark off the plan until the final set is issued. Before chief had this function, I just used a outline text on page 0 of layout. But even then their could be a change after plans have been finalized. I say unless as part of your scope of work you provide sub contractor supervision/coordination, that is not your job to make sure the truss guy has the right plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Oh what the heck. Scott should be held responsible for everything. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, VisualDandD said: At end of the day why would you be sending anything to the truss people? In my neck of the woods the city building department wants to see the truss engineering for review before issuing the permit. So sometimes the owner has not decided on a contractor at that point and I send in the drawings for truss engineering often or sometime just as a service for the contractor. If it works that way in Cali then maybe you can blame them for issuing the permit with the wrong truss engineering. But good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: Oh what the heck. Scott should be held responsible for everything. Why not? Scott charges by the hour---this tells me another check is coming your way buddy , rain or shine, maybe I should change how I charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 25 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: Oh what the heck. Scott should be held responsible for everything. Why not? I thought the same thing......... Glenn, I was thinking the same thing..... Perry, you are correct, I bill hourly..... BTW, BH (you know who)...... BH and my client has been revising my client windows....". I wonder if the plans will need to be changed to reflect the changes? hmmmmm, thanks BH for the heads up! Thanks, Chop, I love your reasoning...... Johnny..... why wouldn’t the truss manufacturer check out the permitted set of plans ?....... retirement is not too far away...... but things ain’t half bad, but I really don’t like fretting over this crap...... thanks guys..... I should of requested revised truss calcs... luckily there are usually back ups to prevent the bone head screw ups like forgetting to reorder truss calcs.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvoyeDesign Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 53 minutes ago, Chopsaw said: In my neck of the woods the city building department wants to see the truss engineering for review before issuing the permit. So sometimes the owner has not decided on a contractor at that point and I send in the drawings for truss engineering often or sometime just as a service for the contractor. If it works that way in Cali then maybe you can blame them for issuing the permit with the wrong truss engineering. But good luck with that. Hmm, around here the GC has to be named on the permit application. In any case, if an owner was pulling a permit without having a GC on contract I'd be a little concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkwest Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 One of the reasons I went Design/Build back in the late 80's... One ship - One Captain. Here, truss manu. always sends engineered drawings for review before building trusses... just in case something has changed. IMHO, I would say whoever ordered the trusses is responsible. But, like Glenn said, stick frame over hips should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 18 hours ago, dshall said: I drew plans for a remodel. On one wing of House we had hip roof. Ordered truss calcs. Submitted plans to city, before we pulled permits we changed hip roof to gable. Plans show gable roof. The trusses on permittted plans are shown as gable. Plans are correct. Permit pulled, contractor is building remodel, he orders trusses, trusses are delivered with hip set. They should of been gable trusses. I never sent plans to truss company to revise trusses calcs. Who should be held liable, Me, the contractor or the truss company? Curious, were the plans issued from the city without corrected gable truss calcs? May not be relevant but I've had to change truss calcs to match roof changes more than once before permits would be issued. Either way you provided the contractor with a correct set of plans and at that point your job is finished. Any material of any kind that gets ordered after the correct plan permits are issued would not, IMO, be your responsibility. I've also had truss companies that will not proceed without a job walk to measure exact as built framing before ordering trusses for manufacture. I also have a disclaimer on the first sheet of my plans but not sure if it specifically covers trusses - but it will after I finish typing this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Here's the disclaimer on the first sheet of plans which looks like it would cover fabricating trusses as being the contractor's responsibility. I am never quite convinced these kinds of disclaimers have any real legal weight but its presence should at least stop any argument one might have if the contractor orders the wrong trusses. "CONTRACTOR SHALL VERIFY ALL CONDITIONS AND DIMENSIONS AT THE JOB SITE AND NOTIFY THE DESIGNER OF ANY DIMENSIONAL ERRORS, OMISSIONS OR DISCREPANCIES BEFORE BEGINNING OR FABRICATING ANY WORK. THESE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO REPRESENT EACH AND EVERY DETAIL OR CONDITION THAT MAY OCCUR DURING CONSTRUCTION. THE DESIGNER AND OWNER SHALL RELY ON THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR AND SUBCONTRACTORS FOR THE PROPER INSTALLATION OF MATERIALS AND PRODUCTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH INDUSTRY STANDARDS, MANUFACTURES RECOMMENDATIONS AND ICC/ESR APPROVALS ETC." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 6 hours ago, parkwest said: But, like Glenn said, stick frame over hips should work. It would work but you'd likely need the Truss engineer to still sign off on it , so He may want a say in How it was done......maybe easier for them to supply a few extra "Over Trusses" even? since they didn't confirm the Drawing either put some responsibility back on them perhaps... M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 5 hours ago, HumbleChief said: Here's the disclaimer on the first sheet of plans which looks like it would cover fabricating trusses as being the contractor's responsibility. I am never quite convinced these kinds of disclaimers have any real legal weight but its presence should at least stop any argument one might have if the contractor orders the wrong trusses. "CONTRACTOR SHALL VERIFY ALL CONDITIONS AND DIMENSIONS AT THE JOB SITE AND NOTIFY THE DESIGNER OF ANY DIMENSIONAL ERRORS, OMISSIONS OR DISCREPANCIES BEFORE BEGINNING OR FABRICATING ANY WORK. THESE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO REPRESENT EACH AND EVERY DETAIL OR CONDITION THAT MAY OCCUR DURING CONSTRUCTION. THE DESIGNER AND OWNER SHALL RELY ON THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR AND SUBCONTRACTORS FOR THE PROPER INSTALLATION OF MATERIALS AND PRODUCTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH INDUSTRY STANDARDS, MANUFACTURES RECOMMENDATIONS AND ICC/ESR APPROVALS ETC." I have something similar. I don’t want to get in a pi$$ing match, maybe somehow, everybody can share in the hit. I actually drew the plans for the contractor who was hoping to build the project, so I was never hired on by the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Kbird1 said: It would work but you'd likely need the Truss engineer to still sigh off on it , so He may want a say in How it was done......maybe easier for them to supply a few extra "Over Trusses" even? since they didn't confirm the Drawing either put some responsibility back on them perhaps... M. I agree, it’s only about 8 trusses, order new new trusses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 46 minutes ago, dshall said: I have something similar. I don’t want to get in a pi$$ing match, maybe somehow, everybody can share in the hit. I actually drew the plans for the contractor who was hoping to build the project, so I was never hired on by the owner. Yeah it's always an easy call from here without all the details and leaving something on the table for the next time is always good business. Let us know how you resolve it if it's not too personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaneK Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Contractor and I say that with a pain in my side because that's what I do!!!!!! Plans are correct, plan review approved plans and permits pulled with correct design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, ShaneK said: Contractor and I say that with a pain in my side because that's what I do!!!!!! Plans are correct, plan review approved plans and permits pulled with correct design. Yeah I was once a contractor myself and would have taken that hit all day every day but business relationships are always more complex than the simple view we get on the forum looking from the outside in. I would not fault anyone for working out a compromise even though the facts (as we know them) seem pretty straight forward. I would also be inclined to try and make sure the contractor I worked for never made that same mistake and tried to pass their responsibility off again. The OP has been in business for a long time and will certainly work things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now