X17, what's the consensus?

[Designers_Ink]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I agree with almost all of what you said.  All except that last sentence. Believe me, Chief is fully aware of the need for collaboration between multiple machines.  I'm about 99.99% certain that one of main reasons (if not the main reason) for implementing Project Management in the first place was so that they could address some of these collaboration issues, more specifically with the goal of a managed cloud store so you eventually wouldn't have to import/export anything at all.

I think you are exactly right.  They put a ton of resources into the Project Management part of the update (which I think is a good idea), and if the cloud portion was implemented at the same time, it would have been an outstanding version.  Without that piece of the puzzle, it leaves this version update lacking (especially for those who collaborate on files daily).  But that is just how things work sometimes when you take on a huge endeavor like this.  I know those guys busted their butts to try to get everything to work smoothly.  As it is currently, my company just can't use the Project Management system until we can collaborate with each other as easily as we do now with just using Dropbox.  I look forward to the day we can.

 

I don't doubt they will get all of the pieces working smoothly and as intended, but I would love for them to add the cloud service piece as a patch when it is ready to go instead of waiting until X18 to implement it.  Without that piece, this is more of a X16.5 update for us since we can't use the biggest piece of the update. 

 

I would love it even more if they allowed us to use our current cloud system or even our own servers and not a Chief Cloud proprietary system.  For those of us that do a high volume of projects with huge files, we will run out of space allotted very quickly, and I would suspect more space would have to be purchased from them.  If I end up having to pay some monthly fee for more space, my wife may make me cancel my Netflix subscription, and I just can't have that.  I am right in the middle of watching Suits again.

[Smn842]

18 hours ago, ComputerMaster86 said:

Get in touch with them and make your request known. to them.  Help them understand your request and wants for the software.  I get the feeling people don't always do this.

 

I have made several minor requests directly in details and chased repeatedly for years (I can say they are minor as as lifelong software developer and software architect) and cannot even get feedback on the enhancement request status. So yes some of us don't just post here and hope.

[mthd97]

It’s certainly not about what other software can and can’t do but what CA can actually improve on. The problem is that you need to have a priority system that indicates how important a request actually is. Yes it will definitely vary from user to user but at least we can indicate on scale of say 1 - 10 how important a request is to us. I think we used to have a rating system in the past and maybe it is time to bring it back again ? 

[Smn842]

With my software developer hat on I can say managing customer enhancement requests is a difficult task. Many requests are poorly worded so its not clear what's requested, many aren't thought out and impossible to do for wider reasons.  However there are still many good requests received by software companies and although the largest companies may have legal reasons they cannot comment on them, I've always tried to ensure the companies I've worked for give some feedback of status. This way users know if requests needs more info and having lists of items for voting on can work well for many applications.

 

I had hoped that the switch to subscription would get more smaller items done, as one benefit of subscription is it reduces the need for just larger new and improved features to sell upgrades.  Sadly 2.5 years into subscription and there doesn't seem much change on that front.  For me, the few hard to work around limitations and the annual cost of keeping my legacy SSA going probably means I won't renew this year as SSA is obviously on a path to reach parity with subscription. As a DIYer not earning anything from using Chief its getting too expensive sadly and HDPro doesn't cut it for me as it lacks tools to work around limitations.

 

Back on topic:

For me X17 doesn't have much benefit as ease of use changes don't help when I cannot do things such as control door inset like windows can, but then I am not the target user type/country for the product.  The project management changes look good but I also think simple changes such as my enhancement request to show all linked file/image/texture locations for a plan (could be done as a small change to the existing missing files feature) would help users understand where their all the required files,textures etc for plans/layouts are being sourced from as its far from obvious especially for new users. 

[DBCooper]

Quote

 

For me X17 doesn't have much benefit as ease of use changes don't help when I cannot do things such as control door inset like windows can, but then I am not the target user type/country for the product.

 

 

Do you mean like this?  This is in X16, BTW.  

 

 

 

[mthd97]

20 hours ago, Smn842 said:

For me, the few hard to work around limitations and the annual cost of keeping my legacy SSA going probably means I won't renew this year as SSA is obviously on a path to reach parity with subscription. As a DIYer not earning anything from using Chief it’s getting too expensive sadly and HDPro doesn't cut it for me as it lacks tools to work around limitations.

I personally wouldn’t drop legacy SSA if I lived in a region where it was affordable like the US. 
 

Yeah ! HDP is too limited when you are used to using CA full.

 

So there are still more goodies in X17 ?

 

Come on spill the beans !

[Ed_Orum]

It's difficult for me to figure out why X17 is better.

I wish the stair tool would work better.  I mean really, stairs are a part of every job, and the Chief stair tool seems to be what was left over from the "Stair Tool Programming Language" sale, so Chief decided a stair tool that does not work is better than none at all.

 

The Rough Openings tool (I posted earlier today) really needs work.  Once again Chief assumes everyone thinks like a programmer instead of a framer.  Why Chief has a minimum is beyond me, and why the user cannot over ride the minimum is way beyond me.

 

Finally!  The sill plate is not part of the foundation, but, using the Residential template, the siding still does not cover the sill plate in 3D.

 

It really seems Chief is more geared to someone who spends all of their time drawing houses, and then more geared to the bells and whistles of 3D (which, I have to say is really great) instead of the meat and potatoes of framing.

 

I cannot understand the Project Management tool, but that is probably just me, and I cannot get the plans to upload to Dropbox using the Project Management Tool, which is probably just me.  But that is  where I keep them so I can access them from my laptop when I am on a project site.

 

For now I'm sticking with X16 for the paid for drawings and will dabble in X17 in the down time just to see if I can make it work for me.  I see some others on this forum seem to have mastered X17 so I will be reading the Forum to see if I can pick up any tips.

 

Lane

 

[Joe_Carrick]

HI Ed,

 

I am using X17 but not in Project Manager Mode. 

There are a variety of reasons I can't use the Project Manager.

• some macros won't work in PM
• file links to local external files (text and csv for example) don't work.
• dropbox backup is more complicated

Maybe Chief will get there eventually but I don't think it will be in X17.

[AndrewSopher]

38 minutes ago, Ed_Orum said:

It's difficult for me to figure out why X17 is better.

I wish the stair tool would work better.  I mean really, stairs are a part of every job, and the Chief stair tool seems to be what was left over from the "Stair Tool Programming Language" sale, so Chief decided a stair tool that does not work is better than none at all.

 

The Rough Openings tool (I posted earlier today) really needs work.  Once again Chief assumes everyone thinks like a programmer instead of a framer.  Why Chief has a minimum is beyond me, and why the user cannot over ride the minimum is way beyond me.

 

Finally!  The sill plate is not part of the foundation, but, using the Residential template, the siding still does not cover the sill plate in 3D.

 

It really seems Chief is more geared to someone who spends all of their time drawing houses, and then more geared to the bells and whistles of 3D (which, I have to say is really great) instead of the meat and potatoes of framing.

 

I cannot understand the Project Management tool, but that is probably just me, and I cannot get the plans to upload to Dropbox using the Project Management Tool, which is probably just me.  But that is  where I keep them so I can access them from my laptop when I am on a project site.

 

For now I'm sticking with X16 for the paid for drawings and will dabble in X17 in the down time just to see if I can make it work for me.  I see some others on this forum seem to have mastered X17 so I will be reading the Forum to see if I can pick up any tips.

 

Lane

 

Like others have said, Chief really needs a couple updates in a row with all framing/construction document improvements. Stairs, front porch beams, layers based fills (print option as well), wall intersections, locking wall points, etc. I hope we can 2 or 3 versions in a row with lots of improvements to this area and maybe not any or very few 3D improvements. I think Chief needs to catch up on the actual framing/construction side and back off the 3D and cabinets for a couple of versions. Just my opinion. 

[Chrisb222]

9 minutes ago, AndrewSopher said:

Like others have said, Chief really needs a couple updates in a row with all framing/construction document improvements. Stairs, front porch beams, layers based fills (print option as well), wall intersections, locking wall points, etc. I hope we can 2 or 3 versions in a row with lots of improvements to this area and maybe not any or very few 3D improvements

 

Wholeheartedly agree. If Chief could produce a render as nice and fast as AI (on a Mac, tyvm), I would welcome a rendering upgrade. Otherwise, yes please just focus on fixing the lacking parametric objects, and giving us better tools for drawing plans and construction docs.

 

CA Standard Render, 1s:

 

CA CPU Ray Trace, 15 passes, 2:09m:

(I prefer CPU RT because it shows nice shadows of 2D plants)

CA GPU RT Ray Trace, 100 samples, 46s:

 

ChatGPT Enhancement, 2:41m during heavy demand time (altered architecture):


THAT ^ kind of rendering enhancement I would welcome. Otherwise, more meat and potatoes, please.

[Alaskan_Son]

9 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

Wholeheartedly agree. If Chief could produce a render as nice and fast as AI (on a Mac, tyvm), I would welcome a rendering upgrade. Otherwise, yes please just focus on fixing the lacking parametric objects, and giving us better tools for drawing plans and construction docs.

 

CA Standard Render, 1s:

 

CA CPU Ray Trace, 15 passes, 2:09m:

(I prefer CPU RT because it shows nice shadows of 2D plants)

CA GPU RT Ray Trace, 100 samples, 46s:

 

ChatGPT Enhancement, 2:41m during heavy demand time (altered architecture):


THAT ^ kind of rendering enhancement I would welcome. Otherwise, more meat and potatoes, please.

 

Do you not care that Chat GPT completely changed your house?

[Steve_Nyhof]

23 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Do you not care that Chat GPT completely changed your house?

Chris can speak for himself, but I am guessing he loves the look, as I do, the AI is producing in general  You have to have a new and very nice Mac to pull off rendering in Chief.

 

[HumbleChief]

Before I go on I would like to express my sincere gratitude to the staff and developers at Chief. They have helped me make a living for many years. Given that, there is one more phenomenon that strikes every software company and creates a difficult but inevitable business decision. That phenomenon is the eventual 'maturity' of software. Think Microsoft's Word and Excel. When was the last time there was a meaningful update to their feature set that truly benefitted 95% of their user base? That feature rich maturity creates no real need to upgrade and predicting a revenue stream becomes nearly impossible. Hence, the subscription business model. Revenues can now be projected with much more accuracy and top and bottom lines are easier to manage.

 

Has Chief 'matured' with a feature set that is complete enough to discourage users to update? Maybe. But X17, if not there, is really close. For this user, who still has the grandfathered SSA program, this may be my last upgrade as I really don't need any new features. Others' needs will be different I'm sure and who knows X18 may be ground breaking but I am not really looking forward to its release but am willing to be surprised. 

[SHCanada2]

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

as I really don't need any new features

ah but you are missing the other upgrade reason which will come to fruition at some point...obsolescence. Operating system,, or graphics engine dependent on video cards that switch to new technologies. 

[Rich_Winsor]

While I have 0 experience with AI, and prefer to work

with ai (actual intelligence) can you not instruct the

program to leave the structure un-modified or mask

the structure so that only the terrain and background

are enhanced?

 

 

 

[mthd97]

2 minutes ago, Rich_Winsor said:

While I have 0 experience with AI, and prefer to work

with ai (actual intelligence) can you not instruct the

program to leave the structure un-modified or mask

the structure so that only the terrain and background

are enhanced?

 

 

 

At least until they come up with an un-masking algorithm .

[ValleyGuy]

9 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

ah but you are missing the other upgrade reason which will come to fruition at some point...obsolescence. Operating system,, or graphics engine dependent on video cards that switch to new technologies. 

Good point, I'm pretty sure that my Mac Intel system will not support X17. So until I upgrade my computer, I'm stuck at X16.

 

I also agree with other's request for more meat and potatoes. I'd be in favour of a version or two cleaning up and bettering some of the already established things in Chief, instead of starting new projects that will be added to the list of things needing some help and refinement. There are items in life that I purchase just because 'they work as they should' - not pretty looking, but robust and reliable. Get the job done efficiently type tools. Tech seems to always be expanding, but we are in a business type market that requires productivity needs over flashy extras. Somewhere CA tech will expand it's envelope far beyond what is really needed to get the job done and more people will say that they really don't need to upgrade. Maybe it is becoming more of a case of what do we want this program to do? Is CA spreading itself thin in some areas by trying to add in all the new tech advancements? I stopped buying new cell phones for similar reasons. I just want it to keep a contact list and make a reliable call (that stays on the phone and not suddenly jump to the truck) ... it is a phone after all. A lot of the flashy other things seem to become insignificant when I am trying to use the phone .....as a phone.

[HumbleChief]

14 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

ah but you are missing the other upgrade reason which will come to fruition at some point...obsolescence. Operating system,, or graphics engine dependent on video cards that switch to new technologies. 

Maybe. But that assumes that advancements in technologies graphic engines etc. will be useful to users who also may not need those advancements. I have an ancient graphics card and very old computer that works great for my uses. I used to need all the latest and greatest but not so much any more so future tech like advances in graphics cards etc. hold no interest - for me.

[Chrisb222]

21 hours ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

Chris can speak for himself, but I am guessing he loves the look, as I do, the AI is producing in general  You have to have a new and very nice Mac to pull off rendering in Chief.

 

 

Thanks Steve. I was just going to not respond to that since I like to keep positive energy here, and couldn't tell if it was sarcasm, humor, or a serious question. It seemed obvious to me that I was showing the Chat image simply to illustrate a desired aesthetic - I even indicated it was altered architecture... who would want that?? I guess I have a blind eye and lack human intelligence.

 

At any rate, it was really surprising people would think I was actually willing to sacrifice model accuracy for a pleasing rendering. Whatever, but thanks for the support. 

[PitMan71]

Does chief have a focus or advisory group made up of users helping give them direction from a user community standpoint?

 

[Chrisb222]

System obsolescence is a real thing, always has been, but another thing we might be missing is that new potential users are emerging all the time. We might tend to think we are all there will ever be, when people of all ages will continue to enter this industry. 

[Chrisb222]

9 hours ago, Rich_Winsor said:

While I have 0 experience with AI, and prefer to work

with ai (actual intelligence) can you not instruct the

program to leave the structure un-modified or mask

the structure so that only the terrain and background

are enhanced?

 

I've tried being super explicit with instructions to not alter the building, without success... so far.

 

I have however started pasting a chief rendered house onto an AI terrain, with fairly good success. I think the grass, plants, and trees just look fantastic.

 

 

AND the building is correct!! 

[Steve_Nyhof]

  

34 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

Thanks Steve. I was just going to not respond to that since I like to keep positive energy here, and couldn't tell if it was sarcasm, humor, or a serious question. It seemed obvious to me that I was showing the Chat image simply to illustrate a desired aesthetic - I even indicated it was altered architecture... who would want that?? I guess I have a blind eye and lack human intelligence.

 

At any rate, it was really surprising people would think I was actually willing to sacrifice model accuracy for a pleasing rendering. Whatever, but thanks for the support. 

 

I think some of us, including myself, see the forum at times like an evening, sitting around a camp fire and shooting the bull. Some times we just like talking for talking sake 

 

For me, I was big into marketing and pushing all my social networks, until I got tired of speaking to the choir. The only thing I have now is the Chief forum and I have enjoyed being a part of it now for a number of years. I have more fun on it if I envision chatting around a camp fire 

[Alaskan_Son]

38 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

Thanks Steve. I was just going to not respond to that since I like to keep positive energy here, and couldn't tell if it was sarcasm, humor, or a serious question. It seemed obvious to me that I was showing the Chat image simply to illustrate a desired aesthetic - I even indicated it was altered architecture... who would want that?? I guess I have a blind eye and lack human intelligence.

 

At any rate, it was really surprising people would think I was actually willing to sacrifice model accuracy for a pleasing rendering. Whatever, but thanks for the support. 

 

It was a totally serious question and you seemed to acknowledge its legitimacy in your last post where you seemingly admit that its a problem.  Just like me, I'm sure you have seen countless examples of AI changing crucial details (not only in renderings but also in simple text).  People gush about how great the results are and many times don't even realize the extent to which the end result has been changed.  

 

And when you mentioned "(altered architecture)" it was proceeding "heavy demand time" so I assumed it was a catchall phrase for the level of service you were using and could include material changes, landscape changes, trim details, and so on.  

 

Again, I really and truly was just curious if you care that AI changes things because you stated...

 

On 5/22/2025 at 12:01 PM, Chrisb222 said:

THAT ^ kind of rendering enhancement I would welcome.

 

It's a hard pass for me though.  It's 90% cool, but that remaining 10% is a deal breaker.  It's not a useful rendering in my opinion unless its accurate and in just about every single example I've seen to date AI does something either structurally or with lighting that I think would be a disservice to my clients no matter how pretty it looks. 

[Chrisb222]

Just now, Alaskan_Son said:

It was a totally serious question

 

Then the answer is yes, of course I care.