ValleyGuy

This possibly could be the case. Even though we are a Commonwealth country, only government jobs use metric that I know of here. I agree with having a separate metric template, especially if the common wall thickness is consistent between metric using countries - changing every wall ever scanned would be a royal pain for sure!

I haven't found any global default adjustment location past the few basic ones. I may be incorrect, but I suspect that the program can't get too bulky with options and still function on the small horse powered devices. I wouldn't be surprised if the default wall thickness stays at the one pre programmed option (114mm) , just like the only door option is a hinged door. As for the triple decimal showing up, I did a quick room scan and found that once I manually adjusted the wall thickness and moved the walls to 4800mm, I had all but one wall measurement record the unwanted .001 mm add on, even though the default was set to zero decimal positions. I also placed a room and set walls to 110mm and room size to 4800mm and every dimension was correct with zero decimal positions... until I pushed one wall to 5500mm and back again to 4800mm, this prompted the .001 to show up again on all of the measurements. I'd say this is a bug and suggest that you let Chief know about it.

I agree with just relying on LiDAR for the rooms not being reno'd. So far the opening size and location accuracy from the scan has been more than acceptable for this purpose, at least for the rooms that aren't on a one or two step height difference. Those ones are just off in the elevation height.

Yes, this my reconcile part. I'm not 100% confident enough to not have a back-up that 'can't move'. I'm also not yet convinced that LiDAR can fully flush out the always found different interior wall thicknesses, slight wall jogs, furred portions of walls, and boxed in dead spots that derail the exterior measurements. Plus, some closets are just not LiDAR scan possible. The CA app will also never be able to do "everything" either, it isn't meant to. I'm thinking that 'most' of the floor plan can be drawn and reconciled on-site on the iPad at best. Fine detail information 'written down' will probably always be a constant, to be taken back to the office where more time and/or a more robust program await. On a side note... The trace app is quick just using the pencil to write rather than type text boxes. And the portability of a cross body strap on the iPad (encased in a rubber 'kid proof' w/ pencil holder) allows both hands free to measure. This part should go quickly. I'll probably also grab the door and window info while I'm in the room too. I'm thinking that sitting down to move all the necessary walls and confirm the openings in the CA app will be faster doing it all at once on a table top than holding the iPad room to room.

So playing around on the CA As-Built app here is what I found. The walls seem to be easily moved due to the controls that Chief has installed. For example, a vertical wall can only move left or right on the page. A horizontal wall can only go up or down on the page. I didn't test any diagonal walls, but from the Q&A webinar answer, they will respond in a similar fashion. Curved walls... I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you. Once a wall is selected, it will have dimensions already attached, or temporary ones will appear. Only the highlighted wall will move (no directional pop up like in Premier). So you either lengthen or shorten the attached dimension, the dimension is anchored and the highlighted wall is what will move. I didn't find any waitress with an iPad issues at all. This part of the app seems to be sound. Again, this app has some bugs with drawing or moving a free end (non attached) wall which I'm sure they are working on. Once they get that little glitch ironed out, I'm pretty sure that nudging walls will be done right on the app on site without worry. A nice touch is how Chief has the windows and doors set up. The individual item has an info panel to manually input over ride values (or easily double check values). And the wall containing the opening also pops up the dimensions from both edges to the next perpendicular wall so you can adjust on the fly. Another thing that I found; because I don't like to use decimal points, the app dimensions will round up/down to the inch. And I'm ok with that. Most everything that I do has varying degrees of accuracy depending on the situation. And sometimes when measuring a 250 year old house, accuracy is a luxury beyond reach... Here's what I hope to accomplish... As I chose a desk top and iPad over a laptop, I am trying to use what I do have on-site to not make multiple trips between the office and the site. Sometimes multiple customer meetings are hard to schedule, so I want to make the most of the time that I'm there. I find that I spend a lot less time getting decisions made by sketching in front of the customer. Way faster than using Chief and preparing a layout to email. I hope to also have time to sketch ideas on-site. I expect to measure the house to some degree. Again, some instances need very high accuracy, and others not so much, I may only rely on the LiDAR results for those specific areas. I also expect to have to make notes and draw in items that current tech isn't capable of yet. I should have stated above that this CA app will remove a lot of what I currently draw on-site. Here's the logistics that I'm thinking of... LiDAR isn't the full package yet no matter how good Chief is, there are things that it just doesn't do yet. Likewise, I don't think the CA As-Built app is a full one stop shop yet either (it was only just released!). So I plan to use the Morpholio Trace app in conjunction with CA's app. I believe it was designed with the iPad to be it's main hardware too so it works well on the iPad. I'm thinking that this package will serve as my on-site CA As-Built back up, mark up, red line, customer detail sketch book, and video camera - all in one. - CA Back-Up: I'll just screen shot the initial CA LiDAR dimensioned plan and keep it in photos. Just in case I need to compare any suspected unauthorized wall movements. - Red Line: More like CA app lidar dimension discrepancy check. Let's be honest, we have to feel comfortable that the LiDAR measurements are close enough to reality. For this, I plan to input the saved CA screen shot photo in to Morpholio Trace as the base layer. Then I can lay a trace layer over top and start confirming the room measurements. Circle in red and 'pencil' in correct room measurements as needed. - Split screen the iPad: CA app / Morpholio Trace app. Adjust the CA app walls using the M.Trace red lined dimension values. - Now confirm window / door measurements if wanted, placement, and swing direction in the CA plan. (Door types that are different than Hinged can be drawn in M.Trace.) - Screen Shot the newly modified CA floor plan again. - Reload the new screen shot photo into M.Trace - Mark Up: in the new reloaded M. Trace app. Place layers of trace paper down to draw in the things that LiDAR doesn't pick up (soffits, stair wells, railings, beams, ...), the items CA decided to remove from the 2D plan (cabinets, built-ins, appliances, plumbing, fireplace,...), and all the other items of interest: notes, the types of doors, configuration of windows, floor patterns, patios, exterior steps, electrical, mechanicals, ... So now there should be a very accurately dimensioned floor plan in the CA app with walls and openings, and a very sporty looking floor plan of the as-built complete with all the missing bits in the M.Trace app. And of course, take some pics and a video or two. Make some mark ups on the pictures in the iPad's Freeform app if needed for things like the roofline, porches, decks,... Now the remodel / addition fun can start with the client. In the M.Trace app, put down more trace paper layers for all the ideas and options. Even draw in upper and lower floor levels or doodle new roofline / dormer options. By the end, I hope to measure only once, and have it all contained on the iPad, done on-site during the one visit - depending on how big the project is of course.

The Morpholio Trace app LiDAR (orange dimensioned) picture is like I said earlier, just a 3D picture with a reference point up above, somewhere more left than centre in this case. The LiDAR is to scale, but it isn't a 2D picture like CA's As-Built app, so picking reference points on multiple sloped walls isn't feasible to obtain accurate measurements with any consistency. The thing that I liked most about this was the LiDAR gave me a great starting place - not just a blank page but an actual house shape to use as a guide. Trying LiDAR was the leap from paper, a ruler and a pencil, to using something digital for me. Morpholio Trace LiDAR is the first baby step out of the gate and as I am not experienced with anyone making an actual 2D floor plan from LiDAR, using the trace paper on the iPad instead of real paper on a clip board was the starting goal. And now Chief has taken that starting point one step further and is producing a 2D floor plan that is dimensioned and dynamic. I played around with Chief’s As-Built app a little today. There are some bugs to work out of this Beta release, but I think that they are on the right track to producing a very good (and accurate) app using LiDAR. And who knows, maybe they (and Apple) might get to the place where it is spot on.

The first post (with the orange dimensions) is using Morpholio Trace, which does not provide any automatic dimensions, walls, openings, etc. I used their ability of a downward view of their LiDAR scan as a base picture of the floor plan. Every layer of tracing paper that I put on top of the base picture makes up the information. I drew in the lines for walls, windows, doors, cabinets, etc, ... plus the dimensions. It is more of a start from scratch and draw a picture type of program rather than a drafting type of program.

Yes I would agree that missing or not distinguishing items such as soffits, railings, half walls etc is not CA and is fully the LiDAR's ability. In another app, I have had it pick up the kitchen island sink depression (in the correct spot) but show the island counter top overhang as a solid block to the floor. Two different apps with the same LiDAR results - I'm sure that it's an LiDAR thing. I have found that it has always been very reliable picking up walls and openings, and for that reason, I can overlook not picking up the kitchen soffits. It looks like Chief has done a great job in making the 3D model into a 2D plan view, as well as removing the clutter and furniture. I just loaded it this morning, shot the house with it, turned on the interior dimensions and posted the results. Literally no edits just to see the accuracy. If you look at the comparison of the two (in the other thread under Sales Related Questions) you will see that the LiDAR CA generated dimensions are very close to the actual laser measured ones that I put in yellow earlier in the thread. This app probably won't instil enough confidence to just scan and walk away for me, as I'm a 'measure twice' kind of drafter, but it sure will remove any drawing on site, plus be a much faster way to adjust the walls to the correct dimensions. I think that Chief did a great job to make it 'Draft Person Friendly' so far. I'll sit down with it soon to learn what it really has under the hood for options, hopefully there are some good nuggets yet to find.

I just down loaded Chief's new As-Built app on my iPad Pro and used the LiDar scan tool. It may not be a one tool fixes everything, but it is definitely going to be a huge game changer in how I obtain as-built information. Check out the thread in the "Sales Related Questions" to see what CA's new app made in under 10 min

Ok this CA As-Built LiDar app is fabulous so far! I just loaded the app and shot the same house. This is very RAW as I am not at all familiar with Chief's new app tools. This is just scan then turn on the interior dimensions. PRO's: - It gives a very accurate actual 2D floor plan. Accurate looking wall and openings. Doors and windows are clean and distinct. - Clean and very accurate dimension lines, some are right to the inch - some are out a few inches. - Clutter and furniture are removed from plan -3D model actually looks like a house and not gray walls and blocks like other LiDar scans - it appears that manually inputting labels, room height, notes, dimensions, etc will be easier than the other program I am currently using - Walls are moveable and dimensions are dynamic - adding in rooms looks like a piece of cake - TOTAL TIME TO PRODUCE THIS: UNDER 10 MINUTES !!! CON's:: - I need to figure out if the plan can rotate,... well, I need to learn a lot of what this is capable of... - There definitely needs to be some edits: additional dimensions, railings, stairs / steps, half walls, bump out walls missed, door swings, soffits, beams - regular stuff LiDar doesn't pick up and CA wouldn't know that I wanted measured. - some of the edit tools aren't intuitive and I do not see a ? Help icon. Maybe there is a user guide in the making....??? - the unknown future cost to upload to the cloud may be a concern, but the app is free, and this may not need to be uploaded. - limited list of lazer measure tools that are confirmed to work with this program. *** my Bosch GLM165-27CG works via bluetooth with the Bosch Measure On app, but I can not figure how to get it recognized by the CA As-Built app So far, this appears to be well worth the price of my iPad Pro and Apple Pencil, for the amount of As-Builts that I am now doing. This may or may not be a stand alone tool, but it is definitely a huge foundational piece that can certainly be complimented very nicely with other inexpensive apps.

The measurements in orange are my manual input from the tape measure. There are no auto measuring tools like in CA as it is a picture with no solid snap-to items. I put them in manually like we would over top of a picture in CA. I believe the idea of using the scanned picture to provide the dimension is going to be the tricky part. I'm not sure if its clear enough to see, but the 3D top-down view uses a reference point (unlike a 2D plan view) and the walls are actually angled a little - just like a 3D doll house pic in CA. As for if the measurements can be edited in the program, yes they can be.

For what it's worth... I am a one man show and I have pretty much switched over from pen and paper to my iPad using Lidar with a really inexpensive ($30 CDN / yr) program called Morpholio Trace. This has saved me hours on every as-built measure. The lidar creates a full 3D of an entire floor of a house in under 5 minutes. One thing the Morpholio Trace program will do is a top down view. I just start drawing in lines and add measurements on the exact "floor plan" view. I don't use it (or expect it) to make the measurements from the scan, I still physically pull a tape. The program does a lot of great stuff for a really cheap cost. It's well worth a look. If Chief can eliminate the need for this additional app, and can eliminate the physical measuring too....wow! That would be a huge game changer! You are probably closer to the Apple ecosphere using an iPad than you are to the ecosphere used in programming the radio in your car. The Apple products really shouldn't scare anyone as they work in a similar fashion like anything tech does. Maybe just a little different wording to save files than a PC, but more the same than different. If you can tap your finger to an icon on a touch screen, you can pretty much use an iPad. If you can manage a self check-out station, use an insta teller, operate your smart TV remote, use the Microwave, maybe even use the coffee machine.... you have the skill set. It's a tool, if it can benefit you, don't let your fear of drinking the Kool-Aid hold you back. I personally find it baffling how many people shy away from Apple tech when it can be a good tool for their job, and yet spend hours learning so many 'different' types of tech - some just being purely time wasters. Apple (or whatever computer) is usually only the vehicle transporting the program that you want to use. I mean you probably wouldn't decline a new rental car that you have never driven before in hopes that they had your familiar 10 year old discontinued model on the lot. Apple also has an app that comes on the new iPads called Freeform. I use it as well to capture pictures and make notes right on the picture, at the time. Doodle, sketch, whatever,.... it all stays in one nice neat little place. It works really well and comes free on the iPad. Here is a pic of the Morpholio Trace app (using the Lidar pic). Notice the little 3D thumbnails at the bottom. They are also lidar 3D pics that I put specific measurements and info on. If Chief can actually be accurate with measurements and integration from a camera scan into their program, that would be amazing. I believe there are a few road bumps yet, which might not be a bad thing as it may provide a little more job security for us. Here is a picture from a job using the Freeform app on the iPad.

Good video Mike, you are right, Solver made some good videos and I also used his material to solve a lot of issues. I'm not that much farther ahead of you doing this area calc's, but here are my school of trial and error notes that I made when I first started. I'm not sure if they are all correct, and certainly not sure how or why, but these seem to keep me on the right track with my limited knowledge. I'm not sure if they will help, but it may be more added info to work with.

I use style palettes to install the info I want into the room (conditioned vs non-conditioned, remodel vs new vs existing, etc) as well as the appropriate custom object field, and other stuff. I made custom icons for my tool bar for each of the style palettes. Set up the schedules to divide out and total up the appropriate data. It's not hands free, but it is way quicker to grab a spray can and click on the room vs the p-line stuff I do elsewhere. The schedules don't have to be nudged to activate like the p-lines do either. A poly line is more accurate if you are splitting hairs between shared walls, as the room splits down the middle of the wall vs the p-line is placed where you want it. It's quick and accurate enough for my needs, only needs updating once at the end, and keeps the information visible continuously. No macros or anything that special. You could probably come up with something that fits your needs.

....Ok, my flicker issue is purely self-inflicted ... my cross section was on Update Always instead of Update on Demand. Oooops