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Old Template Plan Warning...

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I just discovered some major problems with an older (not sure how old) template plan that wouldn't build to defaults. Something in the plan was stuck on building to a mono slab no matter what default setting I used. The included Profile plan in Chief 8 builds exactly as expected and I would advise anyone who is using an older template to update their's to avoid any future problems.

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Larry you might be onto something here, I had a problem the other day when doing a non slab floor. I thought it was me as default settings did not seem to hold. I will have to look further into this. I do 90% slabs so not usually a problem.

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....I do 90% slabs so not usually a problem.

Exactly my MO as well, didn't notice till I had to create a different foundation.

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One method that I think will clear all the old defaults is to delete the entire 'floor' and rebuild. This will then allow the defaults to drive the new structure.

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I have this problem A LOT when I bring an old plan forward.  Never have the problem with new plans either.  No matter what the defaults say, the foundation doesn't follow them.  Even after I click the checkmark to 'default' they go all crazy.  Sometimes checking default on and off will fix it (even thought that doesn't make sense).  I've sent it into support and they haven't been able to give me an answer that I've been satisfied with.  There method was deleting and starting over with a rebuild.  But that didn't always work, and I'd rather not delete the foundation when the work is done even if I can copy to a temp plan, etc.  Older Chief versions were more tolerant then newer versions.  I can typically narrow it down to a single offending room.  Using the 'match properties' tool is the best tool to fix things to make sure all rooms match, but when I can't get even one room to be correct, then can't really use the 'match properties' tool.  Through trial and error and lots of time I can usually get it to work, but there is no consistency on how to fix it.  I use thick walls a lot, and the way X8 treats them and there connections seems to be a big problem with room definitions when it translates to the foundation.  But it's different each time. Such an annoyance.

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I am working on a plan where the defaults are constantly changing in the room dbx. Numbers that seem to come out of nowhere and certainly not the defaults I have set. Take a LOT of work to get everything to play nicely. Match properties is the only solution many times.

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With X8 ,Chief has always recommended to create new templates ,from Chief's profile plans and layouts. There were a lot of new features. Like auto updates for elevations and sections and camera views.

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With X8 ,Chief has always recommended to create new templates ,from Chief's profile plans and layouts...

Yes and I always ignored it - till now.

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...and my situation isn't a problem with templates, but a problem with bringing an old plan forward.  So new templates wouldn't solve some of those issues.

 

BTW, I bring plans forward a lot.  That is part of my business model.  I have done thousands of plans over the years and I will give a client a discount if they use one of my old plans 'as is', or use it as a starting point.  So Chief needs to continue to support legacy plans.  I understand that as a plan get's too old there may be problems, but the issues I'm having aren't special things.  They are just foundations and defaults and pretty straight forward things that should just work.

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I too have many old plans from versions as far back as 7 and I have seen problems, foundation to trusses in heaven. It's not the end of the world but................................................

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I too have many old plans from versions as far back as 7 and I have seen problems, foundation to trusses in heaven. It's not the end of the world but................................................

 

Yeah, ditto.  And I expect problems on older plans. It usually takes about 30 minutes or so to import annotation sets, defaults, changes some settings, layers, update windows, doors and other things to integrate into X8, and I'm fine with that as things have changed (for the better), so I get it and each time I bring a plan forward, it is now ready to go for the future.  And it's worth it because the new tools are more refined, quicker and produce a better visual plan.  But this foundation thing on some plans has taken me half a day to finally get it fixed.  There have been a few that I can't figure out at all and just use polyline solids or cad to 'band aid' it.

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But this foundation thing on some plans has taken me half a day to finally get it fixed.  There have been a few that I can't figure out at all and just use polyline solids or cad to 'band aid' it.

.. same here but so hard to really document in a way that the Chief guys can fix and if the fall back is to just create a new plan each time that defeats a lot of the inherent power within Chief.

 

I will also bet it's almost always 'user error' but a program should not be so complex that errors are the norm from a very experienced user such as myself, unless I really am as stupid as Chief can make me look/feel.

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Larry,

 

If you have the time and inclination, I would really like to have a Skype session with you so you can show me when these problems occur.

We both may be able to learn something.

 

Or, better still, it would be great if Scott could host a GoToMeeting.

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Glenn, That would be great as I also have a plan that I suspect has some of the same issues and will not stay set to it's default values. Not too sure where to start with it even after reading this whole Thread.

Chopsaw

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Chop,

 

Give me a call on Skype if you are so inclined.

 

Skype name is glenn-woodward.

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It is always our goal to make it so that legacy plans and templates will come into the latest version with out having to do any significant work.

 

If you ever have a legacy plan that looks fine in an older version but doesn't look right in the latest version, then please report this to our technical support team.  Please be sure and include the original legacy plan along with a clear description of what is not working the same. 

 

You can report these kinds of problems here:

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/#contact

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Glenn, That would be great as I also have a plan that I suspect has some of the same issues and will not stay set to it's default values. Not too sure where to start with it even after reading this whole Thread.

Chopsaw

 

Chop,  I recommend you accept Glenn's offer to help you out.  It's free.  And if you guys want to do a GTM,  of course I will  host.

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I think the trick is to realize what is new in all the versions you skip, when bringing plans forward. If there were no mono-slab in the version you drew it in then Chief will give you default mono-slabs. If that's not want you want then you have to change it. That goes with every new item. You also might want to set up your defaults prior to bringing forward. I have actually created a new template prior to copying the old plan forward ,to the new template, not bring the plan forward just copying it to the new plan template. There will still be things to fix up no matter what you do. We can't expect Chief to figure all of that for us, there are just to many ways to get it done.

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It is always our goal to make it so that legacy plans and templates will come into the latest version with out having to do any significant work.

 

Dermot,

 

Can you give us a quick lesson regarding what and how Chief "remembers" when a room is deleted and then recreated.

I know it happens and it was described as a feature way back when.

It seems like the new room has to be in approx. the same area as the old - but I would love to know the "rules".

 

This "feature" is obviously causing some unexpected problems so it would be good to know how it works.

I could find nothing about this in the help files.

I have a feeling that it also has to do with deleting internal walls and the way Chief applies the parameters if they are different for each room.

 

Maybe we need an option to recreate the room to the defaults or recreate it to the previous room parameters.

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Great question Glenn. When I temporarily lose room def and then get it back, I appreciate the memory, But what are the rules?

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Great question Glenn. When I temporarily lose room def and then get it back, I appreciate the memory, But what are the rules?

Yeah great question Glenn. If there are rules for such behavior I would also love to know what they are to add some consistency and alleviate some confusion.

 

I was always under the impression that any time you added a new space that the new space would conform to the defaults and not 'remember' any other previous settings. If Chief does remember old settings why and in what circumstances?

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The "rules" regarding rooms are a little bit fuzzy but I will try to explain some of the more confusing ones.

 

Rooms are formed automatically when walls are connected to enclose a space. 

 

New rooms will usually pick up all of their settings from your Floor Defaults.  Floor defaults can be different for every floor and are always set when the floor is first created.  If you change any settings in your floor defaults, you may need to also change them on the other floors that have already been built.

 

The program does not like "island" rooms (interior rooms where the walls are not connected to any outer walls). We will automatically connect island rooms using invisible walls to prevent any problems but you can turn this behavior off it you want.  If you do not connect your island rooms, you may see problems with your floors, ceilings, room moldings, and probably more.

 

If you remove a wall, disconnect one, or mark a wall as "no room definition", then technically you would no longer have a room and you would lose all of the settings for the room.  The settings I am talking about are pretty much everything that is in the Room Specification dialog.

 

Since it is really common to temporarily remove or disconnect walls while editing plans, we keep rooms around for "awhile" while you are working.  How long we keep them around is a little bit ambiguous but I know if you save and reopen the plan any temporarily rooms will be gone forever.

 

Another thing that happens is that if you divide a room by drawing walls to form two rooms, the new room will usually be a copy of the original room.  So if you split a bedroom into two rooms, they will probably both be bedrooms.  This is normally a good thing but can sometimes be inconvenient when trying to create something like a closet space.

 

Another thing that can be confusing is what happens when you move walls.  If you move a wall that is dividing two rooms by a small amount, the rooms should always keep their current settings.  If you move a wall by too much though, then you may lose the settings for one room and make a copy of the other room instead.  In the picture below, the right side shows what happens if you move the interior wall up by too much.  Instead of getting a large bath and small bedroom, you will lose the bath and get two bedrooms.  I think this has something to do with the fact that we keep track of the rooms before and after every wall move and it's not always easy to determine what the new rooms should be. 

 

If you find situations where you lose your room settings where you feel you shouldn't, then please feel free to report these to tech support.  We are always looking for ways to improve these kinds of things.

 

post-26-0-44971000-1467905208_thumb.jpg

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Dermot - There is a lot of merit to this mode of operation and why it works the way it does in Chief.  I think the only problem we have is not being alerted to the fact its happening in the instances we dont want this operation, or forget it occurred (since its not a user defined input).  The flip side, we also dont want to have annoying pop-ups or something that slows our workflow.

 

It would be great if there was a way to have a visual indication (or reminder) of this occurring that doesn't impede workflow.

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Dermot,

 

I know this has been asked for many times, but would it be possible to have "User Defined Room Types"?  Naturally, these would have their own "Defaults" such as floor finish, moldings, etc.  As you know, only a select group of Room Types can have specific floor finishes and all rooms inherit their moldings from the "Floor Defaults".

 

Since Rooms are such an integral part of Chief, it would be much easier if we could set the defaults for all room types individually - even Room Names, ceiling structure, ceiling and floor finishes, moldings, etc.

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REALLY appreciate you taking the time to explain Dermot. I have noticed the behavior you are describing and usually find it to be not too confusing but I had a plan that would keep drawing new rooms to old room settings despite the default setting changes. If one moved off that old room area, which now had no walls, the rooms would draw to the defaults, but if new walls were drawn over that old room area the room would be drawn to the last known room spec and not the defaults.

 

I'll spend a little time with that plan and see if I can confirm that behavior and maybe send it into tech to see if that's expected behavior - or not.

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