Plan View vs Annotation Sets vs Layers

[glennw]

I am just saying that you don't HAVE to have matching layer sets/default sets/saved plan views.

It makes a lot of sense to have them all named the same so that they are easy to keep track of.

It's just that over the years i have seen a lot of users do things like have identical layersets for each floor when the same layerset can be used for different floors. The result is a lot of layersets that make things more complicated.

 

Whatever works for the user is fine - it is good that we have the flexibility to use these tools as we want.  

 

[joey_martin]

On 8/11/2020 at 2:57 AM, skoz44 said:

For the past number of years, I have been using Layer Sets and Annotation Sets to control the views being sent to Layout. 

@skoz44 does that method not work for you any longer?

 

A perspective from the other side of the isle....if it take 2 pages of comments from people and a bunch of back and forth to try and explain why you should be using saved plan views, then perhaps you don't need saved plan views. I spent about an hour looking over them and moved on. I will keep my Anno Sets and my template plan.

[HumbleChief]

41 minutes ago, glennw said:

I am just saying that you don't HAVE to have matching layer sets/default sets/saved plan views.

It makes a lot of sense to have them all named the same so that they are easy to keep track of.

It's just that over the years i have seen a lot of users do things like have identical layersets for each floor when the same layerset can be used for different floors. The result is a lot of layersets that make things more complicated.

 

Whatever works for the user is fine - it is good that we have the flexibility to use these tools as we want.  

 

Good point and I think really understanding how the system is designed and executed allows for that flexibility. Extra simple example to echo Glenn's point; when a Second Floor Saved Plan View is created from a simple First Floor Saved Plan View there's no need to change Default Sets/Layer Sets for that new Plan View. You can but it can create additional work and clutter that's not needed. Roof Plan First Floor - Roof Plan Second Floor; same Default and Layer Set, change floors in the Saved Plan View is all that's needed - if you choose.

[SNestor]

3 minutes ago, joey_martin said:

@skoz44 does that method not work for you any longer?

 

A perspective from the other side of the isle....if it take 2 pages of comments from people and a bunch of back and forth to try and explain why you should be using saved plan views, then perhaps you don't need saved plan views. I spent about an hour looking over them and moved on. I will keep my Anno Sets and my template plan.

 

Joey - to use your line of thinking we probably should do away with dormers...just as much confusion with "roof cuts wall at bottom" as there is with Plan Views. Or maybe we should get rid of the stair tool - since it creates more problems than it solves. 

 

I'm not a one size fits all...if you like your setup...keep it. Plan Views are a nice feature but certainly not the end all and be all of Chief. @joey_martin - I've seen the plans you produce - absolutely amazing work - you certainly don't need to spend time creating Plan Views. 

[joey_martin]

2 hours ago, SNestor said:

I'm not a one size fits all..

Which is why I said perhaps. 

[skoz44]

Back to Working Sets.  How are you guys using them?  I realize its a plan set that never goes to layout, but what specifically are you using it for if it never goes to layout?

 

 

 

@joey_martin I agree it is somewhat complicated.  I guess I'd like to fully understand it before I ditche it.  The anno's and layers have worked fine for me so far.

[rgardner]

17 minutes ago, skoz44 said:

Back to Working Sets.  How are you guys using them?  I realize its a plan set that never goes to layout, but what specifically are you using it for if it never goes to layout?

Not sure if it is how most use it or even if it is the most efficient or even intended use but it is where I build most of the model in before specializing in the electrical, cabinets, dimensioning phases.  Think of the working set like a semi-all (pertinent) on layer set where you build your model going back and forth but it is a messy section where you can adjust your site, your plumbing fixtures cabinets, etc.  then you use the other views as your refined (what you send to your construction documents) views with just what you want showing including reference views in different colors/line weights & types to say show plumbing drops on your floor framing plan view.)

[SNestor]

17 minutes ago, skoz44 said:

Back to Working Sets.  How are you guys using them?  I realize its a plan set that never goes to layout, but what specifically are you using it for if it never goes to layout?

 

 

 

@joey_martin I agree it is somewhat complicated.  I guess I'd like to fully understand it before I ditche it.  The anno's and layers have worked fine for me so far.

 

I use the Working Set in Plan Views as my plan development set...I can turn layers on/off etc.  But I leave the plan views I use to send to layout alone...well, I try to not change them much. That way...I'm sending drawings to layout in a consistent format. 

 

Plan Views are not really any more complicated than annotation sets. If you look at a Plan View...90% of it is an "annotation set". The thing I think that is confusing is "annotation sets"...most new users do not know how to set them up. But - if you can create an annotation set...you can create a saved plan view. 

 

 

[SNestor]

35 minutes ago, joey_martin said:

Which is why I said perhaps. 

 

OK...I missed that one word.

Still...you have to admit you aren't in love with saved plan views...and most times when it comes up you take the opposing view. Which is fine...but, I don't think it's good advice for new users as it's my belief that this is the way Chief is moving...so, you might as well climb on board.

But - like I said, I've seen your plans. I'd probably not change if I were you either...you've got an amazing setup which I'm sure has taken you a long time to refine. Why upset the apple cart. You should post one of your floor plans so new users can see what Chief is capable of...no one does a better looking set of plans.

[DRAWZILLA]

I still use anno-sets, that trigger layersets and plan views because it's very convenient  to load up plan views all at once. these were already set up years ago and I just don't have the time to change it up and eliminate the anno's.  I still get the same outcome that I want . I like the setup, maybe when I get a couple weeks break ( ya sure that will happen). 

[dshall]

5 hours ago, joey_martin said:

@skoz44

.......if it take 2 pages of comments from people and a bunch of back and forth to try and explain why you should be using saved plan views, then perhaps you don't need saved plan views......

 

I see it just the other way around.  The more value the more there is to discuss and explain.

[joey_martin]

It's not that I am for or against per say, just a different view as they are concerned. They weren't/aren't for me, and just bring up that they are not necessary to be efficient.  

[MarkMc]

3 hours ago, skoz44 said:

Back to Working Sets.  How are you guys using them?  I realize its a plan set that never goes to layout, but what specifically are you using it for if it never goes to layout?

Like other said, it's where I do most development. I also use them for some dimensioning. I have some default sets for cabinets, doors, windows that trigger a layerset and a specific dimension default. i.e wall cabinets only show so I can drag manual dimension (in one sweep) that gets placed a fixed distance out, another for base cabinets, another for centers, have one for opening centers. Those dimensions all go onto layers that show up in appropriate plan views, just faster to pull them that way.

I also use the primary working layer set for placement of CAD guide lines and occasionally for making notes during a phone call things that I don't want to show up elsewhere or have to clean up.

Lastly I share most files with others, many who have trouble with all of this-layers, views, sets.... I teach them to leave the plan views and associated layersets that ARE sent to layout alone. Instead have them use the working PV with the working layerset. Cuts down on getting revisions back that need a lot of fixing.

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, dshall said:

 

I see it just the other way around.  The more value the more there is to discuss and explain.

+1

[Chrisb222]

On 8/11/2020 at 2:57 AM, skoz44 said:

If I am understanding this correctly, then it seems that I should have a common set of views/layers/annotations.  For example if I have a layer called "Framing 2 Layer Set", then I should have an annotation set called "Framing 2 Annotations" and a Plan View called "Framing 2 Plan View", which of course all tie together.  Is all of this correct?

 

Not exactly. You CAN have a unique Default Set for each Saved Plan View but it's not necessary. Many times a Default Set will cover many SPVs. In fact Default Sets aren't necessary at all, but I still use them in conjunction with SPVs.

 

No one NEEDS SPVs but after working with their power I will never go back. I can go from working on the foundation to the kitchen cabinet layout by simply switching the SPV, which even zooms in to the correct floor and area.

 

Quote

Finally, how are Working Plan View and Working Layer Sets utilized?  It's only one view, so can't understand how it is helpful.

 

For me that's just a view I can change around without worrying about messing up another, more important view. It's like a "junk view" that I can do anything to. It never gets sent to layout but is useful for certain tasks and troubleshooting, without the danger of screwing something up. Could I create dozens of SPVs for various tasks instead of using the Working Plan View? Possibly. But the tasks are random and I'd end up with a list of rarely used temporary views that the one WPV is used for.

[CharlesVolz]

6 hours ago, skoz44 said:

Back to Working Sets.  How are you guys using them?  I realize its a plan set that never goes to layout, but what specifically are you using it for if it never goes to layout?

 

6 hours ago, SNestor said:

I use the Working Set in Plan Views as my plan development set...I can turn layers on/off etc.  But I leave the plan views I use to send to layout alone...well, I try to not change them much. That way...I'm sending drawings to layout in a consistent format. 

 

That is what I do. Every main annoset and layerset has a working version (that I can temporarily add construction lines, etc.) and a final version (that stays the same and goes to layout). That way you do not leave the wrong layers on or off by mistake in layout.

 

Regarding Saved Plan Views: If you go to a layout plan and open a view, that will give you that view with the correct floor, camera, zoom, reference floor, annosets, layersets, etc., the same as a Saved Plan View. That helped me understand what a Saved Plan View is.