Foundations on multiple levels, But one floor plan

[4hotshoez]

I have heard it said that a basement should be a floor level and the foundation on a level below that. How does this work to create a single foundation plan with a Garage on the main floor with its foundation below that and then a basement as the next floor down and its foundation below that? IOW, the two foundations are a level or two some times apart, but I want them to be on the same Foundation Plan drawing. Surely this has been solved before. Please advise. 

[DavidJPotter]

Commonly Floor zero is for the basement or just foundation. Floor one is the first living space commonly and so forth. There are exceptions to that rule when you have a split landing or multiple floor levels on floor one.

 

This You Tube video by Dan Baumann may be of some help:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWibFFtn9Ik

 

DJP

[johnny]

I've done daylight basements that are on 0....so am I doing it wrong?  Now you have me curious.

[4hotshoez]

But I have been told by experienced users that if I have a two story house with a basement I could have essentially 4 floors. floor 0 is the foundation, floor 1 is the basement, floor 2 is the first floor, floor 3 is the second floor and floor 4 is the attic even though chief automatically adds an attic level. It is supposed to be easier to manage or control as changes always come. But there are other reasons that escape me now. Which is why I am asking for help. Can I build a foundation on multiple floors that can be seen on one foundation plan? To me the answer is no, but if I were to post this as a suggestion, someone would come up with a work around solution.

[HumbleChief]

Can I build a foundation on multiple floors that can be seen on one foundation plan?

You can using reference Layers - it can be a bit inflexible but very doable.

 

(Queue Glenn and short video)

[Alaskan_Son]

...but if I were to post this as a suggestion, someone would come up with a work around solution.

Hahaha . That's hilarious and totally true. I'm giving you a point for that.

Anyway, I think its really just personal preference. I know the consensus is often in favor of one particular method over another, but I also know there are usually a number of us in disagreement for our own reasons. I for one totally disagree with some of the regulars on at least one or two of the items that are generally accepted as "the way to do it".

That being said, both methods I'm sure have their strengths and weaknesses. I for one have always put foundations on floor zero and only floor zero, but then again it depends on what you want to show. Even if you want to build the foundation on 2 floors and display it all on one floor, its not hard to use reference layer sets to do that as Larry suggested (not so sure about the "inflexible" part).

Not sure that helped, but that's my thoughts.

[joey_martin]

While using a reference set would help you, and isn't really a work around, the answer to you question is no. The foundation will not show on 2 different level. You and I design and build in the same general area of the country, and basements are the norm for us. I place the basement/foundation on level 0 everytime. I have never come across a situation in which I wanted or needed the basement on level one. Not saying that method is wrong. The guys out west (Mr. Hall) described to me situation using slab foundations where it is beneficial for them to place the "basement" on floor 1, but it was a situation that I don't think I would ever encounter, and most likely you would not either. 

 

Now, I am assuming you don't work much with slabs. I spent a couple weekends up in Kalamazoo a few years back teaching for the NAHB, and all the builders/designers in my class all built the same as I did. Just a little deeper frost line. So while I certainly would never discourage you from learning and playing with both methods, I don't think you will use the basement on floor 1 method very often.

[jscussel]

I'm with Joey on this subject. 

 

I have always built the basement foundation and garage foundation on floor 0.

 

Never had a problem doing it this way. Finished basements and walk out basements work.

 

I tried doing it using the other method. Didn't work as well for me.

[DavidJPotter]

Here in this open forum you will get lots of opinions (everyone considers that the way they do things is THE ONLY WAY to go). That is one of the strengths of this software in that in many cases there is more than one way to achieve a particular result. I once had a client in Dallas who created different versions of the same plan on different floors in the same plan file. I considered that crazy but it serves his needs, such as they are.

You get advice here and you can read the Reference Manual or watch videos but in the end it is only you who is responsible for the outcome.

 

DJP

[HumbleChief]

I once had a client in Dallas who created different versions of the same plan on different floors in the same plan file. 

I love that idea for 2D presentations. Just sayin'

[javatom]

I have done designs using both systems.  The one scenario that need to have basement on level 1 is a sloped property with a partial crawl space on the daylight side and a DECK on the daylight side.  Floor framing usually displays on the floor below as it should.  If you have a deck on level 0, it has no where to display it except for level 0.  If you even think you might have this occur, set it up from the beginning with the basement on level 1.  It is really hard to add another floor below level 0 after the fact.  It can be done but it is a lot of time and tricky techniques.  I probably place basement on level 0 about 90% of the time as the deck at walkout thing rarely occurs.

[HumbleChief]

Probably not what you're looking for but an idea at least.

 

[dshall]

I have done designs using both systems.  The one scenario that need to have basement on level 1 is a sloped property with a partial crawl space on the daylight side and a DECK on the daylight side.  Floor framing usually displays on the floor below as it should.  If you have a deck on level 0, it has no where to display it except for level 0.  If you even think you might have this occur, set it up from the beginning with the basement on level 1.  It is really hard to add another floor below level 0 after the fact.  It can be done but it is a lot of time and tricky techniques.  I probably place basement on level 0 about 90% of the time as the deck at walkout thing rarely occurs.

 

 

That is one scenario.  

 

Here is another,  you have a walkout basement on same level as a detached garage with a mono slab.    If this is the scenario you will probably want to put the basement on level one,  so the garage plan can be on level one whilst still having the MONO SLAB on level zero.

 

As JavaTom says  " It is really hard to add another floor below level 0 after the fact.",  so keep that in mind.

 

One more thing to keep in mind.  If you build foundations manually,  it does not matter what floor the basement is on.  It will work on level 13  with the first floor on level 14 and the second floor on level 15.  

 

Learn how the program thinks and you should be able to achieve what you want.

 

Both methods have their advantages and disadvantages.

[johnny]

But I have been told by experienced users that if I have a two story house with a basement I could have essentially 4 floors. floor 0 is the foundation, floor 1 is the basement, floor 2 is the first floor, floor 3 is the second floor and floor 4 is the attic even though chief automatically adds an attic level. It is supposed to be easier to manage or control as changes always come. But there are other reasons that escape me now. Which is why I am asking for help. Can I build a foundation on multiple floors that can be seen on one foundation plan? To me the answer is no, but if I were to post this as a suggestion, someone would come up with a work around solution.

 

Part of the issue is that nothing modeled in Chief is contained on anything but a floor.  Unlike other apps, layers in Chief are simply view styles/options for the current layer.  With reference layers you can get 2 floors with varying layer display options to work, but no more than that.  This is probably nothing new to people reading, but what I personally dont like is the suggestion for a multiple reference set ability. 

 

Chief should bite the bullet, and redesign their layer and floor system so that layers can exist on their own "z" coordinate and have any combination of layer display options.  Objects/model should exist inside their respective layer, and have a "view options" take over much of what Annosets do currently.

 

That is my 2-cents.

[DRAWZILLA]

For me it's basement on level 1, foundation on level 0, works good for me. I want my foundation plan separate than a basement plan, too much going on ,and the cities might reject it drawn that way as too hard to understand.

[4hotshoez]

For me it's basement on level 1, foundation on level 0, works good for me. I want my foundation plan separate than a basement plan, too much going on ,and the cities might reject it drawn that way as too hard to understand.

So Perry, How would you show a foundation plan if the garage is on the main level and it has a short stem wall (48" in Michigan). Then there is a walk out basement level below the main floor with its foundation below, which means the foundation of the garage and the foundation of the basement would be on separate levels. How would you show or build them on the same plan?

[Chopsaw]

I will let the experts expand on or shoot down this idea as I have not tested it myself but have heard talk of exporting multiple plans to the same page of layout to combine them. Could this work for a situation like Todd has?

[Alaskan_Son]

I will let the experts expand on or shoot down this idea as I have not tested it myself but have heard talk of exporting multiple plans to the same page of layout to combine them. Could this work for a situation like Todd has?

Yes. A person could send multiple overlapped views to layout but if I am understanding correctly, I believe that properly using reference sets would probably be a better way to achieve the same thing.

[Chopsaw]

Michael, You and Larry have both clearly stated that this is a good option but Glen has not come through with a short video to explain how it works. I do not want to speak for Todd but he has since restated the same question possibly not understanding using "referenced layer sets" in this situation or maybe just looking for another option. Could you give a brief summary of how this would work?

[Alaskan_Son]

I'm actually on my iPhone screen at the moment so I'll try to keep it brief and to the point. If you have parts and pieces of the foundation on 2 different floors but you want them in the same view, simply set up one layer set to display 1 of the 2 foundation sections exactly as you want it to display. Then do the same thing for the foundation section on the other floor. Now you have both halves of your view but on different floors.

Now all you have to do is turn on the reference display, set your reference floor to the appropriate floor level (probably 0 or 1), and use the layersets you set up in the aforementioned steps. Once you send that view to layout, that layout view will remember both layersets and the appropriate floor, and all your items will be visible in the same layout box.

[glennw]

So Perry, How would you show a foundation plan if the garage is on the main level and it has a short stem wall (48" in Michigan). Then there is a walk out basement level below the main floor with its foundation below, which means the foundation of the garage and the foundation of the basement would be on separate levels. How would you show or build them on the same plan?

 

 

Todd,

If it were me, I would draw the foundation under the basement (and nothing else) on level zero.

I would draw the basement and the foundation under the garage on level 1.

I would draw the main floor level and garage on level 2.

I would not draw both foundations on the same plan level as they are separated too far in their height.

 

But, this may not suit you as I think you want to draw both foundations on the one level (say, level zero).

You can do this no problem by manipulating the heights, but you will then have to draw the basement under the main floor on it's own level (level1).

Then draw the garage and main floor on level 2.

[English]

I must be missing something here but we are talking about floors (Level 0, Level 1 etc) and a foundation is not a floor in and of itself -- it's part of a floor. You pour a footing for a basement but it's not a floor until you build the walls.

Alan

[glennw]

I must be missing something here but we are talking about floors (Level 0, Level 1 etc) and a foundation is not a floor in and of itself -- it's part of a floor. You pour a footing for a basement but it's not a floor until you build the walls.

Alan

 

And that is why I am very careful to make the distinction between Chiefs levels and the actual floors in the model.

I can draw a floor plan on Chief's level 5 and have it appear in 3D as if it is part of the model drawn on Chiefs level 1 - just by manipulating the floor/ceiling heights..

ie, floor level 1 does not have to be drawn on Chiefs level 1.

I think I did a video a while back demonstrating this where half the single storey house was drawn on Chiefs level 1 and the other half was drawn on Chiefs level 3, BUT, in 3D, it looked like just one large single storey house.

[dshall]

And that is why I am very careful to make the distinction between Chiefs levels and the actual floors in the model.

I can draw a floor plan on Chief's level 5 and have it appear in 3D as if it is part of the model drawn on Chiefs level 1 - just by manipulating the floor/ceiling heights..

ie, floor level 1 does not have to be drawn on Chiefs level 1.

I think I did a video a while back demonstrating this where half the single storey house was drawn on Chiefs level 1 and the other half was drawn on Chiefs level 3, BUT, in 3D, it looked like just one large single storey house.

 

 

Yep,  I did a vid too. I think you can put a bedroom on level 5 with a floor elevation of 0.0,and then you can put a living room on level 1 with a floor elevation of 50',  and it will show correctly in 3d with the living room at a higher elevation than the bedroom even though the living room is on level 1 and the bedroom on level 5.

[4hotshoez]

I am not sure which would be less confusing, drawing a foundation on different levels and showing them on one plan with reference layer sets or drawing them on one level and manipulating floor and wall heights to make it look like they are on different levels. Both have merits and both have draw backs. For one, I have not been able to figure out how to do either. Second, the Ref Layers may fall short if I where building on a very steep grade and had foundations on three or even four levels, which might happen on future project. I would be interested in evaluating both options.

 

Here is the value of the forum. You will not find stuff like this in the standard training videos.