GeneDavis

Best-practice use of paint spray tool?

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If we shouldn't paint walls with it, how is it best used to avoid problems?

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You just need to keep in mind that it only "Paints" the existing material to look like another material, it does not replace the material. For example, if your exterior finish is 4" thick brick the painter allows you to make this look like siding but it is still 4" brick, just with a siding look texture. If you actually want real siding then you need to open up the wall definition and change the brick to siding.

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1 hour ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

You just need to keep in mind that it only "Paints" the existing material to look like another material, it does not replace the material. For example, if your exterior finish is 4" thick brick the painter allows you to make this look like siding but it is still 4" brick, just with a siding look texture. If you actually want real siding then you need to open up the wall definition and change the brick to siding.

To add another caution is that if you are trying for an accurate model and material list then the paint will affect that as it cannot tell that the brick was changed to siding, it's just a paint over it.  Another issue that is very prevalent in less experienced users is when they don't pay attention to the setting for the spray can for component, object, room, floor, plan and will paint something then wonder why their cabinets look weird, or why their glass door is no longer glass, etc.

 

Overall the concept should be that if the item is changing materials do it in the dbx.  If you don't care about paint takeoffs and you are changing a door color in 3d from white to blue for example it won't change anything that matters for con docs or anything else so a spray can change can work fine to show the client.  But if it is a totally different definition of materials do it in the dbx.  But to keep in mind that once you have painted that item it will no longer be set on the default material so if you are trying to make a dynamic change to all the doors for example that one will not change.

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I just painted a trim piece on the exterior. Would never paint a wall, but I added some molding to the exterior of a model and painted it to match the other trim.

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That's my primary use.  Painting trim.

 

Also painting solids and slabs, unless the slabs are real concrete and I want them in material list.

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2 hours ago, joey_martin said:

I just painted a trim piece on the exterior. Would never paint a wall, but I added some molding to the exterior of a model and painted it to match the other trim.

Agree 100%!!!! but when they are changing wall types from siding to brick with paint can,,,,,,, it is SILLY.

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I feel like this subject is one of the most misunderstood by even some of the core power user base.  As a general rule of thumb, using the Material Painter really only becomes a problem when you are using it to change a material that is being controlled by the structural layer settings of a parametric object or when using it with Blend Colors with Materials toggled on.  All other material changes made using the spray can are carried through exactly the same as they would be if you were to change that material using the Material tab and are therefore carried through to the material list as well.  My recommendation is to use the Material Painter freely and often.  It's one of the most efficient methods of changing materials, especially when used in the appropriate mode (Component, Object, Plan, Room, etc.) .  For the most part, it should just be avoided in these scenarios:

  • On exterior wall surfaces. It's almost never appropriate to just change the color of an exterior wall.  You're almost always intending to change the actual structure of the wall and so you should be changing the Wall Type or Wall Type Definition.  The main exception to this would be if you're just changing the actual color (paint) of a material on one or 2 specific wall sections in which case this would also be one of the very few circumstances where using Blend Colors With Materials may also be used effectively.  Again though, these situations are few and far between.  99% of the time, exterior wall surface materials should be changed in the actual Wall Type Definition.
  • On interior wall surfaces where the actual structural layers are being changed.  Painting a drywall accent wall in a room a different color than the rest?  Material Painter is totally appropriate.  Changing the wall material from painted drywall to wood veneer?  Change it in the Wall Type Definition.
  • When changing framing layers.

At the end of the day, it's important to just learn how the tools work.  The Material Painter is essentially a shortcut to the Material tab.  There are a few minor exceptions, but when it is appropriate to change a Material in the Material tab, then the spray can is good to go, otherwise, change in the Structure or Wall Type tab. 

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I learnt long ago not to use it for Exterior Walls ( thanks Forum !) and now advise Client's to make a Save-As > Client Meeting Plan , so they can go crazy if they need to in front of the Client with the Paint Can, and then transfer the final selections back to the Working Plan correctly later.

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2 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

make a Save-As > Client Meeting Plan , so they can go crazy if they need to in front of the Client with the Paint Can, and then transfer the final selections back to the Working Plan correctly later.

This is what I do. In addition to using the paint can for material options, I feel comfortable quickly showing design options.  If needed, I'll do another save-as. All design elements and materials are then incorporated into the working plan. 

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Yes, I am so glad this topic came up and is discussed in detail!  Perhaps Gene's thread was sparked by my post earlier.  

 

 

On 11/27/2020 at 2:59 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

I feel like this subject is one of the most misunderstood by even some of the core power user base.  As a general rule of thumb, using the Material Painter really only becomes a problem when you are using it to change a material that is being controlled by the structural layer settings of a parametric object or when using it with Blend Colors with Materials toggled on.  All other material changes made using the spray can are carried through exactly the same as they would be if you were to change that material using the Material tab and are therefore carried through to the material list as well.  My recommendation is to use the Material Painter freely and often.  It's one of the most efficient methods of changing materials, especially when used in the appropriate mode (Component, Object, Plan, Room, etc.) .  For the most part, it should just be avoided in these scenarios:

  • On exterior wall surfaces. It's almost never appropriate to just change the color of an exterior wall.  You're almost always intending to change the actual structure of the wall and so you should be changing the Wall Type or Wall Type Definition.  The main exception to this would be if you're just changing the actual color (paint) of a material on one or 2 specific wall sections in which case this would also be one of the very few circumstances where using Blend Colors With Materials may also be used effectively.  Again though, these situations are few and far between.  99% of the time, exterior wall surface materials should be changed in the actual Wall Type Definition.
  • On interior wall surfaces where the actual structural layers are being changed.  Painting a drywall accent wall in a room a different color than the rest?  Material Painter is totally appropriate.  Changing the wall material from painted drywall to wood veneer?  Change it in the Wall Type Definition.
  • When changing framing layers.

At the end of the day, it's important to just learn how the tools work.  The Material Painter is essentially a shortcut to the Material tab.  There are a few minor exceptions, but when it is appropriate to change a Material in the Material tab, then the spray can is good to go, otherwise, change in the Structure or Wall Type tab. 

 

Thanks Michael!  Very concisely said here. 

 

I always found the paint can a little confusing and I wish the tutorial guide explained this more clearly.

 

I will now mostly reserve the paint can for changing colors on things I only want painted - mostly changing colors on interior walls, and also on exterior walls when it is ONLY the paint color I wish to change.  And even then, if it's a paint color that I use frequently, then I would change it in the wall type definition.

 

I also used it in some places where masonry was painted a different color than original, which occurred quite often on this recent plan of mine.

 

 

On 11/29/2020 at 1:42 PM, DianneDSC said:

This is what I do. In addition to using the paint can for material options, I feel comfortable quickly showing design options.  If needed, I'll do another save-as. All design elements and materials are then incorporated into the working plan. 

 

Great idea!  For a quick look at something, use the can, but only on a plan that is temporary.  Then change the wall types on something more permanent.

 

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19 minutes ago, mgianzero said:

 

On 11/27/2020 at 2:59 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

I feel like this subject is one of the most misunderstood by even some of the core power user base.  As a general rule of thumb, using the Material Painter really only becomes a problem when you are using it to change a material that is being controlled by the structural layer settings of a parametric object or when using it with Blend Colors with Materials toggled on.  All other material changes made using the spray can are carried through exactly the same as they would be if you were to change that material using the Material tab and are therefore carried through to the material list as well.  My recommendation is to use the Material Painter freely and often.  It's one of the most efficient methods of changing materials, especially when used in the appropriate mode (Component, Object, Plan, Room, etc.) .  For the most part, it should just be avoided in these scenarios:

  • On exterior wall surfaces. It's almost never appropriate to just change the color of an exterior wall.  You're almost always intending to change the actual structure of the wall and so you should be changing the Wall Type or Wall Type Definition.  The main exception to this would be if you're just changing the actual color (paint) of a material on one or 2 specific wall sections in which case this would also be one of the very few circumstances where using Blend Colors With Materials may also be used effectively.  Again though, these situations are few and far between.  99% of the time, exterior wall surface materials should be changed in the actual Wall Type Definition.
  • On interior wall surfaces where the actual structural layers are being changed.  Painting a drywall accent wall in a room a different color than the rest?  Material Painter is totally appropriate.  Changing the wall material from painted drywall to wood veneer?  Change it in the Wall Type Definition.
  • When changing framing layers.

At the end of the day, it's important to just learn how the tools work.  The Material Painter is essentially a shortcut to the Material tab.  There are a few minor exceptions, but when it is appropriate to change a Material in the Material tab, then the spray can is good to go, otherwise, change in the Structure or Wall Type tab. 

 

Thanks Mick!  Very concisely said here. 

 

 

It was not I ......... that is  Michael's Post, all credit to Him, it was posted earlier in the thread....

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/28737-best-practice-use-of-paint-spray-tool/?do=findComment&comment=229276

 

M.

 

 

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For walls where the finish material doesn't have a texture - such as drywall - I generally add a very thin finish material (paint).  That material can be painted with any color without effecting the underlying drywall layer.  

 

For walls where the finish material has a texture I create a new wall type (copy) and edit the material itself.

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