Frustrated With Chief ....may Be Going To Softplan

[parkwest]

22 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

 

...  Is there something that can be learned from SP that you can share that would make Chief better?

 

10 hours ago, michaelgia said:

 

The concept of "drawing modes" in Softplan versus Chief's highly sophisticated and elegant annotation sets and layer sets approach blows Softplan, not only out of the water, but out of this galaxy. Are you kidding me? 

How about those damn lollipops for roof plane manipulation what the heck were they thinking?...

How about kitchens, rendering ability? 

Not even close. 

Also layouts are so much more powerful in Chief, albeit not as intuitive at first. 

 

Not to mention Chief's secret weapon - this site and its amazing community. Especially that relatively small group of experienced users who just have no limit to their generosity, everyone knows who they are. 

Dude, chill out!

 

I was responding to an earlier post by chopsaw of what might be some features in SoftPlan that might make CA a better CAD program.

 

FYI, I enjoy designing in CA.  CA made it fun again.

[michaelgia]

53 minutes ago, parkwest said:

 

Dude, chill out!

 

I was responding to an earlier post by chopsaw of what might be some features in SoftPlan that might make CA a better CAD program.

 

FYI, I enjoy designing in CA.  CA made it fun again.

 

I guess I did fly off the handle there a little...

my apologies

merry christmas, by the way 

[parkwest]

De nada

 

Very Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

[Chopsaw]

On 12/25/2016 at 2:02 AM, mthd97 said:

http://softplan.com/?page_id=1284

 

Chopsaw can you show me your video of you drawing walls from scratch in the 3d window with Chief Architect please ?

 

Not quite sure if this covers everything that you need to know or not but please let me know.

 

 

If you like my grid please help yourself to a copy but it only fits a default sized Terrain that is 15x30M with a 1M pattern.

Also if you think this is cool put your ideas in the Suggestion Forum for CA to see and maybe they could give us an auto 3D grid.

 

1M Grid for 15x30M Terrain.calibz

 

And before anyone gets "Frustrated with Chief" here are the Terrain Specification settings that I used.

 

[BrownTiger]

>  A merger or takeover would be worth it for me. I really like SP SL add on.

 

Adding one or two C++ developers and Chief can crush SP. These features that we are discussing are not hard to code.

 

> The concept of "drawing modes" in Softplan versus Chief's highly sophisticated and elegant annotation sets and layer sets approach blows Softplan, not only out of the water, but out of this galaxy.

 

Very true. I do not believe Softplan has true 3D capabilities like Chief Architect, Some of the software design decisions are very convoluted. 

 

However beyond little things it has to major strength:

1)  Builder Options <here> Very nice.

2)  Softlist: On outside SoftList appears to be a major strength. You can click on any wall and get pricing.

On inside it is complete farce. It is just a macro script, with only few predefined options. [spc file= sqlite database]

It defines three length 2x4 Precut (A)-7' ($2.44), preCut (B) 8'($2.56), and preCut (C) -9'($3.49)

                                    2x6 Precut (A)-7' ($4.08), preCut (B) 8'($4.59), and preCut (C) -9'($5.06)

 

For the rest 

Chief Architect can do this so much better, but it is not configured. Like drywall CA can be set to 4x12 and 4x8s in the wall defs, it differentiate rim joists. It reports all kinds of cuts. But it appears that the designers CA material list never completed the coding. CA goes for better or worth in a lot more details, but lucks few final steps: predefined pricing and the ability to specify the formulas to customized lists.

 

This looks impressive but it is really NOT. It does provides what builder like to see: a simple list.

 

[BrownTiger]

 

Issues with CA:

1) No builder wants to see 2"x4" - 42'-10" or 2" x 4" - 34'-5", CA needs to introduce wall segment size e.g. 16'

2) Ability to trace rouge lumber reported: what the heck is F362

3) Add fluff to material list: permit fee, architectural fee, engineering fee, cleanup fee

4) Custom formulas: rough nails = total wall length *0.2 \ 50 pounds

 

And you have softplan's Softlist

[lbuttery]

Chopsaw:

 

very nice on drawing walls in 3D

 

thanks for showing that

 

Lew

[HumbleChief]

3 hours ago, lbuttery said:

Brown Tiger: Chopsaw

 

very nice on drawing walls in 3D

 

thanks for showing that

 

Lew

+1

[Alaskan_Son]

13 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

 

Not quite sure if this covers everything that you need to know or not but please let me know.

 

 

If you like my grid please help yourself to a copy but it only fits a default sized Terrain that is 15x30M with a 1M pattern.

Also if you think this is cool put your ideas in the Suggestion Forum for CA to see and maybe they could give us an auto 3D grid.

 

1M Grid for 15x30M Terrain.calibz

 

And before anyone gets "Frustrated with Chief" here are the Terrain Specification settings that I used.

 

 

FWIW, Chief draws walls from the top of the wall so if you want a truly usable, snapable grid, you have to use a 3D object for your grid lines (molding polylines in the attached example) and place them at the ceiling height of the floor you're drawing on.  I personally never draw walls in 3D though and I'm not sure I ever will.  If you want the clients to see the action in 3D you can always just tile your views. 

[Chopsaw]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

FWIW, Chief draws walls from the top of the wall so if you want a truly usable, snapable grid, you have to use a 3D object for your grid lines (molding polylines in the attached example) and place them at the ceiling height of the floor you're drawing on.  I personally never draw walls in 3D though and I'm not sure I ever will.  If you want the clients to see the action in 3D you can always just tile your views. 

 

Nice observation Michael,  Not sure when or if I would ever use that personally but always good to know just in case. My grid is really just meant to be a visual reference to keep things square and oriented but if you needed snaps a quicker way would be to adjust the "Snap Grid / Snap Units" in General Plan Defaults as they also work in 3D but should not be necessary when using the Tab entry method depending on the project.

[Alaskan_Son]

26 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

 

Nice observation Michael,  Not sure when or if I would ever use that personally but always good to know just in case. My grid is really just meant to be a visual reference to keep things square and oriented but if you needed snaps a quicker way would be to adjust the "Snap Grid / Snap Units" in General Plan Defaults as they also work in 3D but should not be necessary when using the Tab entry method depending on the project.

 

Ya,  that's not quite the same thing but I see what you're saying.  The grid obviously adds a visual cue you don't have when you're simply using grid snaps. I was really just trying to offer an option that provides for an actually functional 3D grid in Chief. 

[Chopsaw]

3 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Ya,  that's not quite the same thing but I see what you're saying.  The grid obviously adds a visual cue you don't have when you're simply using grid snaps. I was really just trying to offer an option that provides for an actually functional 3D grid in Chief. 

 

Yup, If CA picks this up that would be a great feature and make true 3D design easy but It would likely be smoother to use if it was at the base of the wall.  Just hoping for now and maybe when your son graduates from Lego it will be there for him.

[mthd97]

Thanks Chopsaw for doing this video for us in CA. It shows what we can do in a 3d view as I don't use the 3d window for drawing walls in CA. It is nice to know the the scaffolding is there to improve it with dimensions and a 3d grid etc. I wasn't challenging you, I was asking you to show us. I also looked for a video first but couldn't find one. Here is a challenge, who knows from what version we were able to extrude a wall in a 3d view like Chopsaw just did ?

 

 

[dssharp]

Soft plan blows.... I know designers that use it. Render in soft plan (sucks) then render in chief.

i have my gripes and groans with chief , but soft plan and archicad are really lame. Who wants to sit for hours adjusting this and that . It's just not productive. Unless you like sitting there for hours fiddling and messing with a project. 

 

now where's that blasted rabbit. 

[Rashid_Garuba]

On 12/25/2016 at 9:03 PM, mthd97 said:

 A merger or takeover would be worth it for me

 

Me thinks a merger with a larger, deep-pocketed Company is what is needed.. More resources... more programmers. As Johnny has mentioned before, the advantages CA has over others is shrinking and a semi-Automated Vectorworks or Archicad Residential could surprise someday.  Hopefully they see this market as worthwhile someday.  Ultimately a matter of how motivated the CEO/President(s) at Chief are (or will become).. 

 

Some of the suggestions that the "establishment" don't want/need (CAD, 3D modelling) open Chief to new Markets which helps Long-Term.. 

[DRAWZILLA]

FYI, I have met and spent a little time with Greg Wells, Pres. of Chief, and he is very passionate and motivated about making Chief the best there is, you don't have to worry about that. Very nice guy and easy to talk to also. He seems to be very hands on. Scott Harris is also very knowledgeable and could teach us all a lesson or two . I was lucky enough to meet a lot of the people at chief and was very impressed with all. I wish everyone could do that,

[SNestor]

2 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said:

FYI, I have met and spent a little time with Greg Wells, Pres. of Chief, and he is very passionate and motivated about making Chief the best there is, you don't have to worry about that. Very nice guy and easy to talk to also. He seems to be very hands on. Scott Harris is also very knowledgeable and could teach us all a lesson or two . I was lucky enough to meet a lot of the people at chief and was very impressed with all. I wish everyone could do that,

 

Great points Perry.  "the grass is always greener" syndrome can be debilitating.  

I'm all for improving the software, and quicker would make me happy...but, I'd hate to see CA become a behemoth that doesn't listen to it's user base.  

[dshall]

3 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said:

FYI, I have met and spent a little time with Greg Wells, Pres. of Chief, and he is very passionate and motivated about making Chief the best there is, you don't have to worry about that. Very nice guy and easy to talk to also. He seems to be very hands on. Scott Harris is also very knowledgeable and could teach us all a lesson or two . I was lucky enough to meet a lot of the people at chief and was very impressed with all. I wish everyone could do that,

 

I concur,  all good guys and they know their stuff.  However,  Scott Harris has a very good drive off the tee, a good iron game,  but on the putting green his game falls apart.

[Richard_Morrison]

On 12/26/2016 at 4:06 AM, BrownTiger said:

Issues with CA:

1) No builder wants to see 2"x4" - 42'-10" or 2" x 4" - 34'-5", CA needs to introduce wall segment size e.g. 16'

 

Have you explored "structural member reporting" Cut List vs. Buy List? You can set what lumber lengths are available from the lumber yard, and Chief will calculate how many to buy. So I think this is already fixed.

[BrownTiger]

40 minutes ago, Richard_Morrison said:

Have you explored "structural member reporting" Cut List vs. Buy List? You can set what lumber lengths are available from the lumber yard, and Chief will calculate how many to buy. So I think this is already fixed - you just need to know how to use Chief. 

 

We went over that about a hundred times. Walls are not normally framed  2"x4" - 42'-10", so chief undercounts the number of studs missings at the ends.

I am well aware that you can get Running Total Length from chief using LinearLengthReporting, or by dividing all walls into sections 16' foot long.

 

> I think this is already fixed - you just need to know how to use Chief. 

 

You know I resent this, second I do not think you know what BuyList vs Cut List is.

 

Cut List

 

Buy List

 

Plate  2"x4" - 42'-10" - will be on the Cut list as 42'-10" - because it needs to be cut at 42'-10 to cover the length of the wall.

        Since we do not have 48' lumber defined, same plate will appear as  2"x4" - 42'-10" on the BuyList, because buy list basically rounds to a nearest length defined in structural member reporting dialog.

 

So see for yourself. 

[Richard_Morrison]

Sorry, but I don't think you're using this right because it works just fine for me. The BUY list tells you how many of each STANDARD (predefined) size members you need. The CUT list tells you totals, but doesn't put them into standard lumber sizes. The Help function can be helpful.

 

BTW, if you want an accurate stud count, you need to build the wall framing. It will count studs correctly, but if you just do a generic count based on a wall type, it's likely to be off. I just did a quick one room shed of non-standard size, counting the wall studs, plates & ceiling joists, just to make sure.

[mthd97]

23 hours ago, dssharp said:

Soft plan blowengineI know designers that use it. Render in soft plan (sucks) then render in chief.

i have my gripes and groans with chief , but soft plan and archicad are really lame. Who wants to sit for hours adjusting this and that . It's just not productive. Unless you like sitting there for hours fiddling and messing with a project. 

 

now where's that blasted rabbit. 

Archicad made this easier with Cinarender.

[glennw]

10 hours ago, Richard_Morrison said:

Have you explored "structural member reporting" Cut List vs. Buy List? You can set what lumber lengths are available from the lumber yard, and Chief will calculate how many to buy. So I think this is already fixed.

 

And if that doesn't do what you want and you don't want to break the wall sections into 16' lengths, you can always create a new unit of measure and use that with "Linear Length" reporting.

Create a new unit of measure being 16' long. 

 

When you generate your material list, use Linear Reporting.

Click in the Unit column for the plate rows, and choose your new 16' long unit of measure.

The Count will change to reflect the number of 16' lengths needed.

 

 

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

10 minutes ago, glennw said:

 

And if that doesn't do what you want and you don't want to break the wall sections into 16' lengths, you can always create a new unit of measure and use that with "Linear Length" reporting.

Create a new unit of measure being 16' long. 

 

When you generate your material list, use Linear Length.

Click in the Unit column for the plate rows, and choose your new 16' long unit of measure.

The Count will change to reflect the number of 16' lengths needed.

 

You would also need to do something similar with the other framing members if you don't want them to display Linear Length.

 

 

 Wow, that's a very creative solution Glenn. Thank you. 

[glennw]

Michael,

Thanks.

I was answering the other thread regarding shingles quantities on the roof and suggested using a new unit of measurement to convert sq ft to number of shingles.

I then thought back to this thread and thought something similar may work here.

It could be a handy technique for converting all sorts of things in the Material List like the number of ridge tiles in a length of ridging (which I pointed out in the other thread).

You could have any number of "units" configured and then just pick the one you want in the ML

eg. If you had a terrain feature that is natively reporting in area (say, square feet), you could have a unit of measurement called Paving Stones that would report in the ML as number of paving stones and we have the ability to switch the units as needed and the Count will auto adjust depending on the units.

 

By the way, I just sent in a bug report pointing out that the shingle material IS meant to report number of shingles, but is reporting area instead.

 

EDIT:

I just used this same technique to demonstrate in another thread that you can include things like wallboard accessories, (screws, tape, etc) to automatically be counted in the ML.