Chief Architect Software Licensing Changes Beginning January 10, 2023

[SHCanada2]

it will be interesting to see a trend of new customers under this model. I can tell you when adobe went to subscription, the Total cost of ownership over 5 years quadrupled and I went elsewhere because there were others that were not subscription. But if every vendor goes to subscription, we all have to live with it.

 

I personally think the perpetual + SSA is a good model. but you are also correct that they must make a profit. But i would ask, how did they make a profit in prior years, lots of new users...and now the rate of new users has slowed? I suppose that will eventually occur in most industries. so perhaps we should be happy we rode the wave while we could

 

 

[rgardner]

15 hours ago, DRAWZILLA said:

 i checked mine and it says renew for 525.00

I just renewed this month and was charged $595 plus tax.

[Joe_Carrick]

13 minutes ago, rgardner said:

plus tax.

That's weird.  Isn't SSA a "service charge"?  I don't think there's supposed to be tax on services.

[rgardner]

3 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

That's weird.  Isn't SSA a "service charge"?  I don't think there's supposed to be tax on services.

I thought the same thing as well...  Not sure of Idaho state tax law though so maybe its a product for them?  I am under Washington state and my services are not taxed but if I print plans for someone it becomes a product and have to charge sales tax.

[Joe_Carrick]

45 minutes ago, rgardner said:

Not sure of Idaho state tax law

Generally sales tax is only charged for the state where the product is delivered.  That of course can get complicated because the vendor has to keep track of the sales tax rates for each state and make payments to those States accordingly.

 

If CA is classifying SSA as "Software" then it would be taxable on a per state basis - but only to end users, not resellers which we might be considered since the software is a tool which contributes to the product that we sell.

 

Internet sales have made this a slippery slope.

[scottharris]

33 minutes ago, rgardner said:

I thought the same thing as well...  Not sure of Idaho state tax law though so maybe its a product for them?  I am under Washington state and my services are not taxed but if I print plans for someone it becomes a product and have to charge sales tax.

The State of Washington has required us to collect/pay its tax.  Other states are also in the wings.  It's a rather onerous  project.

[misterwiley]

12 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I believe they normally only allow it online 30 days before it expires ( when you normally get the Email reminder ) but you can call in and setup a yearly autopay with your CC or pay for multiple years ahead, at least both were allowed last time I did it. ( just before last price hike - $525 > $595 ) they also used to allow pro-rating so you can move the renewal to July for example if you are away every Jan. ?  ie pay for 18mths now....

 

M.

 

That makes sense to me.

 

I think it would still help a lot of us out if they were able to put all this into a web UI under our account page like all the other subscription based platforms, I use, have. Calling in and figuring all this out over the phone I suppose does work but it feels old school and it seems we are moving into the future here so why not upgrade this area for simplicity and clarity.

 

Just my opinion though, I'll give them a call later this week when I can find time during business hours.

[rgardner]

45 minutes ago, scottharris said:

The State of Washington has required us to collect/pay its tax.  Other states are also in the wings.  It's a rather onerous  project.

I am sure.  Just was surprised to see that it is classified as a product and not a service which in Washington would make the difference of paying tax or not.

 

[Joe_Carrick]

6 minutes ago, rgardner said:

I am sure.  Just was surprised to see that it is classified as a product and not a service which in Washington would make the difference of paying tax or not.

 

 

I would also think that "Leases" are tax exempt.

This may be something CA should look into.  Selling a Product is one thing - but "Leases" & "Services" are another.

[ChiefArchitect]

There have been a few comments about paying SSA.  Here are some options and our policy on SSA renewal.

• The price of SSA is currently $595.  When we make changes to SSA pricing, we notify our customers in advance.  The price of SSA renewal is not changing on Jan. 10.
• We begin billing for SSA 45 days prior to the due date.  At that time, you will see the invoice in your online account and an email notification that SSA is due.  There are multiple reminders to renew SSA as the due date approaches.
• We offer an SSA auto-pay option. You can contact sales at 208-292-3400 to provide payment information to get auto pay set up.
• If your SSA expires, there is a 30-day grace period from the date your SSA expires to get your SSA renewed. So, if you are out of town, etc., you have additional time to make your SSA payment. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Chief Architect Sales

208.292.3400 | sales@chiefarchitect.com

 

[para-CAD]

I don't have a problem with a subscription as much as Chief needs to STAY IN BUSINESS.  No software company can survive with one sale per person.  Once they reach market saturation, there's no more money for the business......until they create the next version.  At some point, the dramatic advancements that would entice someone to buy an upgrade become smaller so the user stays with older versions and the software company goes away.

 

I would even entertain a per project license so during long dry spells, I spend nothing, but when I'm on a task I can factor the software expense into the specific project.  I have no idea how to implement something like that, but it seems discussion-worthy.

 

I want Chief to succeed.

I also want more versatile software with greater native integration with other apps and tools.

 

I recently sold my Matterport Pro 2 because as-builts have slowed to a crawl and 800/yr to host scans on Matterports servers seems wasteful until I have more projects come in.

 

We're all making decisions on how to navigate this volatile economy.

 

Transparency is best all around.  

 

and...Merry Christmas 

[PMMully]

So the net net is those of us on SSA will still pay once yearly, the same SSA price with the same SSA benefits?

[Joe_Carrick]

1 hour ago, PMMully said:

So the net net is those of us on SSA will still pay once yearly, the same SSA price with the same SSA benefits?

Correct.

[Bondbuilding]

On 11/29/2022 at 5:34 PM, ChiefArchitect said:

Chief Architect is updating the way we sell our software.  Beginning January 10, 2023, all new software will be subscription-based.  Perpetual (lifetime) software licenses will no longer be sold after this date.  This change will not affect your existing software or active Support & Software Assurance (SSA).  If your SSA expires, your software will continue to function; however, the SSA will no longer be renewable.  To learn more, please see our software licensing FAQ.

 

Please don’t hesitate to reach out to us with any questions. We look forward to providing you with the very best products and service in the coming year!

 

Chief Architect Software

208.292.3400 | sales@chiefarchtiect.com

Hello Friends and Chief Sales!

24 year user here... I have recommended and gotten more friends using this software than I can remember.

This is interesting news from Chief. For me personally it has provoked a lot of thought about my personal situation and relationship with Chief going forward.  I have read the entirety of the comments which mainly seem focused on the SSA relationship in the future.  The comments are interesting and I get that Chief needs to make a profit!  I think the issue with me is that not one size fits all, and It seems that the new pricing program is geared towards a "Heavy User", someone making a living drawing plans.  I want to make some comments that don't seem to factor in to Chiefs thinking about the purchase model going forward.  I totally get that all the big players have gone to the subscription model. 

 

I started with Chief 6.. 22 some years ago ...upgraded to 8...then to V10 ...then to X7 Premier which is where I am now. I want to say Chief 6 was $1400 all those years ago. (which seemed like a lot!) I have seen the software evolve quite a bit over the years.  I have never had SSA other than the original purchase included. (this was generally offered/presented as Customer Product Assistance/Service which I very rarely if ever needed)  

I am a Home Builder/General Contractor and I only use the program to design homes that I personally speculatively build or custom design for clients to custom build. This amounts to probably an average of 2-3 plans a year. I am getting near the back end of my career and it makes absolutely no sense that I would need to or want to pay in perpetuity $2000 a year or $200 a month just to use the work already created, or draw a handful of additional plans per year.  Obviously I can always open the files with the original program......but we all know that once you open a file with the new version you can't go back. The situation does present some concern if the program fails or ceases working will a new future operating system. This could put me in a situation where I really don't have a lot of options.  I feel pressured now to buy an owned version of X14 before Jan 9th...or use what I have until it dies.  If I buy X14, how long will it be supported as an owned version?....

Then what?

I go stints where I don't use the software for months..maybe as long as a year and then may draft 3 home plans with it. I had a fairly significant run in the 2009 bust where I didn't use it at all for a couple of years.

The software is an absolute marvel, ...but the fact is it does about twice as much stuff as I could actually care about.  I'm not trying to create perfect 3D houses with perfect renderings and imaginary accoutrements. I am drawing 2D house plans.  Obviously the function of drawing and creating in the program is in 3D, but the end goal for me is to have some 2D plans. It's is, and was, a brilliant concept. A person composes a a 2D drawing dictating its 3D properties and can see and take views of it. A person can draw an awesome 3D house if they want to put the time in!  One of the things I say to my customers is that "while we are going to have some 3D modeling, the focus here is to complete a set of 2D plans to build a Real House ...not create a perfect "virtual one"".

Other features the software does, again, are not super useful to me, (estimating, generated materials list, intricate framing diagrams etc) ...because they require too much time perfecting the "virtual home" to use. For me the time effort for me as a Builder is better spent doing it old school...labeling the 2D plans with the methods and features... "floor trusses 16" OC" etc   and then sitting down and figuring it out.  (This is just me...to each his own)

Lastly... My younger brother who does remodeling uses Home Designer Pro. He doesn't typically do whole homes and does not want to pay big money for software for a handful of remodels per year.  I have helped him finish some plans in Home Designer is not significantly different or better than my X7 as far as functional modeling...but it does kind of stink as far as the restricted feature set...(no preset plan views, inability to change views on the Layout Page, only 5 Layout pages...and a few other things). Honestly, if Home Designer Pro did just a few more things it would work for me perfect.  

 

If the whole method is going to subscription, then it seems that Chief should have some sort of cheaper subscription for a light or intermittent and Long Time User.. like me....or .....something a little better than Home Designer but not quite as full fledged as Premier 14.  I'm sure it's a fine line to determine the feature set of Home Designer Pro so a person will buy Chief Premier....but $60 a month going to $200 a month with nothing in between is a big leap when there are a significant amount of features in the step up software that a Builder Type or Remodeler Person could care less about.  Maybe a light user lease or legacy plan.  ( I get this would be super hard to administer but might be worth retaining some users).

It's been a long ride ...hopefully its not over for me.  ✌️

 

 

 

 

[AvoyeDesign]

On 11/29/2022 at 6:31 PM, Kiwideziner said:

at $1995 per year that makes CA dearer than Revit LT bundled with acad LT.

I just yesterday paid US$424 for a yearly licence of the above. I am yet to make a judgement as to which is better.

Right.

 

At $1995 per year, we better see much more regular improvements to the software than we are seeing now at $595 per year for SSA.

[Chopsaw]

3 minutes ago, AvoyeDesign said:

At $1995 per year, we better see much more regular improvements to the software than we are seeing now at $595 per year for SSA.

 

That would be completely dependent on new users buying in at $1,995 per year.

Obviously the first year there would need to be significantly more new users than the normal number that would be paying $3,295  or some promotional rate.  If that does not work the whole thing is off to a bad start.

[CAmichael240114]

I have been with CA since version 10.

During this period I have seen it develop into an excellent program as others have.

Over the years the loyal support of the users have allowed the company and the program to progress to it's current day position.

Business is a contract between a seller and a buyer, a moderate approach to change should have a mutual benefit to all.

Chief Architect, excellent program, excellent service, excellent price, excellent value, excellent partnership, I trust these values are maintained. 

 

[AvoyeDesign]

17 hours ago, Bondbuilding said:

Hello Friends and Chief Sales!

24 year user here... I have recommended and gotten more friends using this software than I can remember.

This is interesting news from Chief. For me personally it has provoked a lot of thought about my personal situation and relationship with Chief going forward.  I have read the entirety of the comments which mainly seem focused on the SSA relationship in the future.  The comments are interesting and I get that Chief needs to make a profit!  I think the issue with me is that not one size fits all, and It seems that the new pricing program is geared towards a "Heavy User", someone making a living drawing plans.  I want to make some comments that don't seem to factor in to Chiefs thinking about the purchase model going forward.  I totally get that all the big players have gone to the subscription model. 

 

I started with Chief 6.. 22 some years ago ...upgraded to 8...then to V10 ...then to X7 Premier which is where I am now. I want to say Chief 6 was $1400 all those years ago. (which seemed like a lot!) I have seen the software evolve quite a bit over the years.  I have never had SSA other than the original purchase included. (this was generally offered/presented as Customer Product Assistance/Service which I very rarely if ever needed)  

I am a Home Builder/General Contractor and I only use the program to design homes that I personally speculatively build or custom design for clients to custom build. This amounts to probably an average of 2-3 plans a year. I am getting near the back end of my career and it makes absolutely no sense that I would need to or want to pay in perpetuity $2000 a year or $200 a month just to use the work already created, or draw a handful of additional plans per year.  Obviously I can always open the files with the original program......but we all know that once you open a file with the new version you can't go back. The situation does present some concern if the program fails or ceases working will a new future operating system. This could put me in a situation where I really don't have a lot of options.  I feel pressured now to buy an owned version of X14 before Jan 9th...or use what I have until it dies.  If I buy X14, how long will it be supported as an owned version?....

Then what?

I go stints where I don't use the software for months..maybe as long as a year and then may draft 3 home plans with it. I had a fairly significant run in the 2009 bust where I didn't use it at all for a couple of years.

The software is an absolute marvel, ...but the fact is it does about twice as much stuff as I could actually care about.  I'm not trying to create perfect 3D houses with perfect renderings and imaginary accoutrements. I am drawing 2D house plans.  Obviously the function of drawing and creating in the program is in 3D, but the end goal for me is to have some 2D plans. It's is, and was, a brilliant concept. A person composes a a 2D drawing dictating its 3D properties and can see and take views of it. A person can draw an awesome 3D house if they want to put the time in!  One of the things I say to my customers is that "while we are going to have some 3D modeling, the focus here is to complete a set of 2D plans to build a Real House ...not create a perfect "virtual one"".

Other features the software does, again, are not super useful to me, (estimating, generated materials list, intricate framing diagrams etc) ...because they require too much time perfecting the "virtual home" to use. For me the time effort for me as a Builder is better spent doing it old school...labeling the 2D plans with the methods and features... "floor trusses 16" OC" etc   and then sitting down and figuring it out.  (This is just me...to each his own)

Lastly... My younger brother who does remodeling uses Home Designer Pro. He doesn't typically do whole homes and does not want to pay big money for software for a handful of remodels per year.  I have helped him finish some plans in Home Designer is not significantly different or better than my X7 as far as functional modeling...but it does kind of stink as far as the restricted feature set...(no preset plan views, inability to change views on the Layout Page, only 5 Layout pages...and a few other things). Honestly, if Home Designer Pro did just a few more things it would work for me perfect.  

 

If the whole method is going to subscription, then it seems that Chief should have some sort of cheaper subscription for a light or intermittent and Long Time User.. like me....or .....something a little better than Home Designer but not quite as full fledged as Premier 14.  I'm sure it's a fine line to determine the feature set of Home Designer Pro so a person will buy Chief Premier....but $60 a month going to $200 a month with nothing in between is a big leap when there are a significant amount of features in the step up software that a Builder Type or Remodeler Person could care less about.  Maybe a light user lease or legacy plan.  ( I get this would be super hard to administer but might be worth retaining some users).

It's been a long ride ...hopefully its not over for me.  ✌️

 

 

 

 

I completely understand your sentiment but from somewhat of a different perspective.

 

I an 15 years into my business and career, and I'm currently using X10.  The SSA renewals have simply been problematic for me because they are due near each new release, which is in the winter, which is a slow season for me.  As much as I have tried to budget for it through the busy times, it always seemed that I needed the money elsewhere more urgently.

 

So every year a new release went from a $595 SSA renewal, to an $800 upgrade, to a $1200 upgrade, to a $1700 upgrade, to now a $2200 upgrade.  Plus exchange to CAD.  I'm doing fine on X10, and I learn to be efficient and effective with the tools I have.  But I want to expand my team, and I now have one license at X10 and can only get a 2nd license at X14/X15 at FULL COST unless I upgrade X10 first.

Ok, so that's a cost of doing business, but I can make it work.  If I were to upgrade middle of 2023, I'd have two versions of X15 and I could chose whether or not to upgrade them later.

But now, once I do this, I only have one fallback license of X10 I can use, as the rest are subscription based and I really don't own anything.  I'm in for the ride.  I can make that work, although I don't consider it ideal.  But this presents me an opportunity:  If I am now faced with a new pricing and licensing scheme, then now is the time to shop around other programs.  What else is out there?  I haven't looked at SoftPlan since 2007, I'm sure they are much better than they were back then.

 

Or how about Revit Lite at $500 a year?

 

What I'm saying is that in their bid to get new customers, they are really forcing legacy customers into an uncomfortable shift, where their only option to keep the status quo was to have been diligent all these years with renewing their SSA.

 

I would need to pay $3,100 by the deadline to get the "grandfathering" scheme.  What else could I buy with $3,100 today?  Everyone's on subscription now?  Oh, look!  Softplan is $95 per month!  I wonder if they will do?

 

I would happily pay Chief $3,100 for 3 licenses of X10, based on what their upgrade path values my license at, so I could have 4 software packages that are compatible.  I'm in for a LOT more if I want 4 compatible versions of X15 one day.

 

So... I'm going to shop around.  See what I find.  Weigh my options.

[Kiwideziner]

Rod

I just purchased Revit lite bundled with Acad lite last week.

It seems like this is an actual comparable programme with CA, except CA has more automated tools eg framing. However Revit seems to have much more control of every item. There are heaps of you tube training videos available, I have watched about 20 hours so far.

Also plenty of country specific fixtures etc ( families) available for free.

My plan was to get Revit LT to evaluate and learn, while still working in CA for the time being, until my SSA expires in July. This was done before the announcement by CA as like you our exchange rate is similar( really bad). Then if I find lt insufficient I can go to full Revit or stick with CA. This also gets me trained on the industry std for this country.

 

[Richard_Morrison]

Chief annual subscription: $1995

Archicad (full) annual subscription: $2545

Softplan (12 mos.): $1140

 

I suspect that people will be exploring their options more carefully.

 

[AvoyeDesign]

1 hour ago, Kiwideziner said:

Rod

I just purchased Revit lite bundled with Acad lite last week.

It seems like this is an actual comparable programme with CA, except CA has more automated tools eg framing. However Revit seems to have much more control of every item. There are heaps of you tube training videos available, I have watched about 20 hours so far.

Also plenty of country specific fixtures etc ( families) available for free.

My plan was to get Revit LT to evaluate and learn, while still working in CA for the time being, until my SSA expires in July. This was done before the announcement by CA as like you our exchange rate is similar( really bad). Then if I find lt insufficient I can go to full Revit or stick with CA. This also gets me trained on the industry std for this country.

 

Curious why Acad lite?  Is it for something else or is Revit not enough?

[mthd97]

Dear Chief Architect and personnel. We don’t exactly know how you arrived at this huge landmark decision but it’s very good for those who can afford to keep up to date with SSA. And very bad for those who can’t and cannot afford a big upgrade or get back on board with Chief.

 

I personally don’t like that type of direction that Autodesk have taken with their products. We will find out the results in time if that was a good decision or not ? I definitely do not think that is the correct way to ensure the future longevity of Chief Architect and your ongoing ability to attract new customers ? Just my opinion.

 

I think you could all carefully reconsider what you are proposing to do in early January. I am not in a position to evaluate your main competitors products and how good they are in comparison to Chief Architect ?

 

I am retired now so it doesn’t really affect me that much in that it is good we can still have perpetual licensing for older legacy versions if we happen to own one or more.

 

I believe you could lose many potential customers to Revit and your other competitors with a decision like this ? Because you will lose the initial chance to get people started with Chief Architect by offering perpetual licensing. Just my opinion again.

 

I don’t know if Chief Interiors will become your main gateway to Chief Premier or whether that new licensing policy will apply to that product as well ?

 

I am sure you have carefully evaluated your decision and please be aware that I have the right not to like the dispensing of perpetual licensing from any CAD software company.

 

My drafting machine is mine and I own it because I paid for it and invested in its up keep. If the person who sold it to me told me they wanted it back ? I wouldn’t feel very good about that. But you are allowing us to keep what we paid for so that’s fair as well as allowing others to get back on board if they wish to do so within the allotted time.

 

Sorry but I can’t afford to get back on board with any CAD company at present especially with a big yearly fee.

 

I hope I am wrong and the decision will not diminish potential new users who will take on Chief Architect in the future.

 

We users don’t know what’s going on with the company and ownership etc and it’s not our business to know but using Chief Architect for our business is. It would be good to know what you are doing with X15 before the deadline. Perhaps you could private email us expired users in advance so we don’t miss out on owning the newer version of CA ? I would be interested in upgrading CA if it became IFC 3D compliant in X15.

 

Illustration: I own a mustang and want to upgrade to the newest model but I am told I can buy it anymore. I can only rent one for a year. The only person who can buy one is the person who has upgraded all the previous models ?

 

I can’t help but feel let down by the decision above.

 

Still all the best for the future direction of Chief Architect Premier.

Edited December 4, 2022 by mthd97
Update post

[Kiwideziner]

It was a bundle for very little more, so I went that way. I am having to provide more in dwg format now so Acad LT lets me check and adjust things. I found the free or cheap alternatives did not really do it for me.

I dont think you need it as Revit is stand alone.

[PMMully]

On 11/30/2022 at 2:21 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

Yes.  This is a pretty big deal as well.  I feel like a policy needs to be adopted right up front that ties SSA to a fair and equitable percentage of the subscription license cost to ensure a consistent, measurable, and reasonably predictable value of our legacy licenses as they compare to the subscription licenses.  Outside of this approach, I think it’s going to be far too easy to ostracize legacy users and make us feel like we’re not being treated fairly or that we’re getting hard armed into the subscription based system.  

Standard "service and support" in the software industry is 20%. I see CA has proclaimed the SSA costs will not rise.at least for this next year. My SSA is 20% of what I paid on a promotion.

 

As long as the SSA pricing stays within industry standards I will be happy. I would not have selected.CA at the subscription model pricing just to do 2D construction documents. I consider the SSA as a version upgrade charge versus support. I put in two cases that were accepted as bugs and there is no fix on the near term roadmap according to supprt. Anything outside of the basics this forum provides the support I need.

 

I recently looked at some manufacturing SW that was $30k, and "S&S" was $6k. No way I could afford that without some production contracts in place,  but the 20% rule applied.

[Crusader103]

I'm a fan of Chief Architect. I've been using since X8 and design about 250 homes per year. I'm on X14 and will continue to upgrade as long as it makes financial sense.

 

I too see the SSA simply as the route to continue upgrades at a reasonable rate. I've called support exactly one time since I started using Chief. This forum is where I get all my answers because most users are smarter than me.

 

I see SoftPlan as the most direct competitor to Chief. At $95.00 per month ($1140 per year), a person is not saving with Chief when they start out, but over time they do. I simply see the SSA as the per month continual subscription fee.

 

When the initial investment/monthly fee dynamic changes the customer will too. I don't have any problem with a company making money; just keep in mind that we're also in the business of making money.

 

I'm not a Ford or Chevy guy. If they both work about the same, it's the one that's more efficient and keeps more money in my pocket. If one is truly better, the financial investment is the deciding factor on whether it's worth it.

 

Tread lightly. Many of us are loyal customers. But loyalty quickly fades in a downward trending economy when we need to buy groceries.