Alaskan_Son Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, builtright3 said: I totally get it! Thank you! I have one question: Can you give an example of when we might still want to use an Annotation Set? Or are you saying that there is no longer a need for them at all? That maybe they still exist because of us old school guy's that are still using them? You’re more than welcome. And sorry, I meant to answer your question but something important came up so I had to leave for a bit. I believe there are a handful of good reasons to keep annosets around. They can serve a unique purpose still and give another layer of options to work with (Rene gave one good example above). Even if they didn’t though, I think they would likely stick around for quite a while for the “old school” guys and gals, for legacy reasons, and for larger companies with large databases who find it would be too costly to switch systems. Having said all that though, I also think that the vast majority of Chiefers could completely do away with them and they would be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
builtright3 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: You’re more than welcome. And sorry, I meant to answer your question but something important came up so I had to leave for a bit. I believe there are a handful of good reasons to keep annosets around. They can serve a unique purpose still and give another layer of options to work with (Rene gave one good example above). Even if they didn’t though, I think they would likely stick around for quite a while for the “old school” guys and gals, for legacy reasons, and for larger companies with large databases who find it would be too costly to switch systems. Having said all that though, I also think that the vast majority of Chiefers could completely do away with them and they would be better off. Im already on it! Plan views are very powerful and easy to learn (maybe because I already have been using anno sets for some time and understand them). Looks like Chief did a nice job on this. I'm excited to start using plan views as soon as I start my new drawing tomorrow. I already see several benefits from switching over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said: Having said all that though, I also think that the vast majority of Chiefers could completely do away with them and they would be better off. Michael - not sure I see how doing away with anno sets is possible? I do understand that when you set up a "plan view" you can define a layerset and anno set to use with the plan view...but, you would still want an anno set. The anno set defines the size and layer of all text, arrows, callouts...etc. You wouldn't want to select the plan view for "electrical plan"...and be placing text and outlets on the framing layer set? It appears that you no longer have to drive the layerset with an annotation set...plan views can do this now, but you would still want to have specific anno sets for framing, electrical, maybe client specific notes etc. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 18 hours ago, builtright3 said: Sorry!! I seemed to have opened a can of worms with suggesting she learn the annoset approach. Actually I take that back, I like to stir things up! I learn more that way!! stir up those cans of worms, we'll have lunch someday. I'll bet your worms are so much better than ours. Plan views rule for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, SNestor said: Michael - not sure I see how doing away with anno sets is possible? I do understand that when you set up a "plan view" you can define a layerset and anno set to use with the plan view...but, you would still want an anno set. The anno set defines the size and layer of all text, arrows, callouts...etc. You wouldn't want to select the plan view for "electrical plan"...and be placing text and outlets on the framing layer set? It appears that you no longer have to drive the layerset with an annotation set...plan views can do this now, but you would still want to have specific anno sets for framing, electrical, maybe client specific notes etc. Am I missing something? Go back and read or re-read this post... ..if you're still not quite getting it, let me know. The point I feel like I'm having a hard time getting across is that Annotation Sets aren't doing the things you say they're doing. It's your Active Defaults that are doing all that stuff. Annotation Sets are just a quick way to change those Active Defaults as a group. Plan Views can change them as a group now too though so whether or not you feel like you need to use both those layers of control is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Apologies in advance if I'm not getting it either but I THINK I understand how to by-pass Anno Sets and what Michael is talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: Go back and read or re-read this post... ..if you're still not quite getting it, let me know. The point I feel like I'm having a hard time getting across is that Annotation Sets aren't doing the things you say they're doing. It's your Active Defaults that are doing all that stuff. Annotation Sets are just a quick way to change those Active Defaults as a group. Plan Views can change them as a group now too though so whether or not you feel like you need to use both those layers of control is up to you. Yea...you lost me. How do you control your active default without a specific annotation set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, SNestor said: Yea...you lost me. How do you control your active default without a specific annotation set. See if that vid explains it a bit as I had your same question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, SNestor said: Yea...you lost me. How do you control your active default without a specific annotation set. Just change them. 9 minutes ago, HumbleChief said: Apologies in advance if I'm not getting it either but I THINK I understand how to by-pass Anno Sets and what Michael is talking about... You almost got it. Here's the thing though. Seriously, just ignore that Annotation Set drop down. It doesn't matter if you change one of those Active Defaults in the Plan View dialog or in the Active Defaults dialog, either way, as soon as the list of Active Defaults doesn't match up to an Annotation Set, the Annotation Set will change to "Currently Using: Active Defaults" . If that list DOES match up to a currently defined Annotation Set, then you will see the name of that Annotation Set in the drop down. So, you can use that dropdown to specify an Annotation Set if you want to, otherwise it serves as nothing more than an indicator as to whether or not that group is already defined as a specific Annotation Set or not. I'll say it one more time. Annotation Sets are nothing more than a pre-defined group of Active Defaults. You can set them one at a time or you can change them all at once by defining and using an Annotation Set. Using an annotation set just helps save the time of switching the Active Defaults one at a time is all. They're nothing special beyond that. Plan Views work on the same concept. They remember the state of your Active Defaults but in addition they also remember more stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisb222 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Like some of you I have only recently started working with Saved Plan Views but it seems like having predefined annotation sets is making it very easy to "import" saved defaults into a new SPV rather than selecting each default individually. Also helps me avoid errors. I suppose once your main template is fully set up, though, the annotation sets will just be a remnant of the process... I wish I used Chief more so I could get rolling smooth before a new version comes out, but it's only one component of what I do (design-build). Seems like I spend the entire year each year learning the latest version, and still only scratching the surface... always in school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Lol, that's going on my tombstone "I Almost Got it" Thanks for the clarification and overall help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisb222 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 16 hours ago, Renerabbitt said: Made a complicated video for everyone to scratch your head at..really I tried my best on short notice Please allow 10 minutes for it to display in HD, otherwise the resolution will be atrocious! (YouTube needs 10 min processing time for HD) Thanks Rene, nice video. You're really bending Chief to your will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkwest Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Once you go "Plan View" there is no going back. Can you envision a day when you can do the 3D modeling of a project and behind the scenes, and concurrently, the computer is generating your layout views automatically? I would like to see the option of connecting a plan view to a room label, also. ie., kitchen, bath, master bedroom, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Annotation Sets are nothing more than a pre-defined group of Active Defaults. yes, this is why layouts were created using ONLY layers and layersets prior to the X4 introduction of anno-sets anno-sets just made things more convenient instead of going to many places to change active defaults you could create an anno-set having that particular set of active defaults. Chief OOB came with a few pre-defined anno-sets some power users ended up with 3-4 dozen of them I suspect most users could have done fine with about 6 or so As for plansets - I can't speak to them Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, parkwest said: Can you envision a day when you can do the 3D modeling of a project and behind the scenes, and concurrently, the computer is generating your layout views automatically? It's pretty close already. My templates are set up with all or most plan views already in the layout connected to a plan template (blank mostly). Sometimes the layout boxes need to be resized. In that case the pages are all set already so I resize the first one, go to next page, delete view, copy paste hold position, open object, change the associated plan view, continue. For a lot of plans I already have elevations in there too, just have to move them on the plan, sometimes adjust the layout box, and sometimes rename (but I avoid that) Usually have to add some since I do mostly remodel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said: ....... I'll say it one more time. Annotation Sets are nothing more than a pre-defined group of Active Defaults. You can set them one at a time or you can change them all at once by defining and using an Annotation Set. Using an annotation set just helps save the time of switching the Active Defaults one at a time is all. They're nothing special beyond that. Plan Views work on the same concept. They remember the state of your Active Defaults but in addition they also remember more stuff. What I have done when converting to plan sets is to trigger my anno sets and then create the new plan set and then never touch the anno set again. I know Michael understand this program as well as anyone and if he says the plan view set is essentially a anno set and more, I believe him..... however, an argument for maintaining my anno sets is they can function as a backup. If I inadvertantly change a plan view set by changing the cad layer, I can always fall back on the anno set to recreate the correct plan set. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said: I'll say it one more time. Annotation Sets are nothing more than a pre-defined group of Active Defaults. You can set them one at a time or you can change them all at once by defining and using an Annotation Set. Using an annotation set just helps save the time of switching the Active Defaults one at a time is all. They're nothing special beyond that. Plan Views work on the same concept. They remember the state of your Active Defaults but in addition they also remember more stuff. So...this is my point. If you create a completely new "Plan View"....and within this PV you want a unique text font, color, size and layer...AND, you want a unique Arrow style/color/size...AND, you want a unique "Rich Text" color, size, font and layer...AND, you need a unique "CAD" layer/color/liine size etc.....your choices are - You can click on "Active Defaults" and define these unique annotations...OR...you can define a annotation set and just assign this set to the PV. The Plan View remembers (saves) the annotations you've assigned either way. It's not really intuitive to have all your annotations setup for every conceivable "plan view" you think you might need. You may use 1/4" dimensions defaults for everything...but you still need them on unique layers...and the only way to control automatically which layer the dimension will be on is to create a new annotation (by copying the standard 1/4" dim default) and placing it on a unique layer and maybe changing it's color (or not). The bottom line for me is...all I want to do is select a Plan View and know that I don't have to do anything else. I know that all text, arrows, dimensions, callouts etc will be the correct color, size, font, and layer that I want them on. To me...the biggest advantage of "Plan Views" is being able to assign a "Reference Layer" to the view. This can be a great thing when sending a roof plan to layout...or a foundation plan to layout. There are probably a lot more advantages that I'm not even aware of. To me a "Plan View" is like an automatic transmission for Annotation Sets....it's allows for ease of use of your annotations and adds a few bonuses on top of that. The only other advantage of plan views as compared to an Annotation Set is that you can define the "zoom", "floor" and whether or not you want "color" or not. These can be handy depending on what you are trying to set up...but, I haven't really used these that often. Michael is correct...an annotation set is a collection of "active defaults". But, you still have to create each "active default"...and using a "Set" of annotations is easier than trying to define them one at a time...at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I always use the plan sets now, the anno set is there in the background by default... they have been there since 1837 and I am too lazy to even think about changing them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, SNestor said: Michael is correct...an annotation set is a collection of "active defaults". But, you still have to create each "active default"...and using a "Set" of annotations is easier than trying to define them one at a time...at least for me. You still have to define them one at a time. All the annotation set does is SWITCH them as a group. And this is something Plan Views can do as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, dshall said: however, an argument for maintaining my anno sets is they can function as a backup. If I inadvertantly change a plan view set by changing the cad layer, I can always fall back on the anno set to recreate the correct plan set. Yep. This is another good reason to keep them around. Good point Scott. Although, I will add that if you are managing your Plan Views properly, this should never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I have some annosets that I only use for working-like to dimension a kitchen (wall cabinets only, base only, centers, like that) But those are never sent to layout, just revert the plan view first. (or don't save it when done working) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: You still have to define them one at a time. All the annotation set does is SWITCH them as a group. And this is something Plan Views can do as well. Maybe that's it for me...many of mine are already defined as "sets". I do think clicking on "annotation sets"...and copying an entire set is the way to go though. It has a way of reminding you to define the CAD layer, and maybe change your callouts or arrows. The "anno set" dbx lets you see all the annotations in one place and let's you define them for the plan view you want to create. To me it's just easier. Michael is correct...if you have all your annotations created for every plan view you use...then you don't really need to see the annotation set "box" on your toolbar. And if you want to change one of the defined annotations in a PV you can use the edit active defaults button and change what you need to. In the end...either way works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Good points all. The main benefit for me and using Plan Views is that more than one Plan View can be open at a time in a tab, instead of the past where switching between Anno Sets would force one to close before another opened. The one other benefit is when using a foundation Plan View and being able to switch to that foundation floor via the setting in the Plan View instead of the old Anno only method of switching Anno Sets then switching floors every time the foundation was shown. I used to have a single floor set for each other Plan View but all my floor plans (except foundation) are now set to 'use any floor'. Easier to switch floors for me with the plan floor icon than set up new Plan Views for each floor. Also never have, nor do I think I will, use the zoom feature for a plan view. Just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Great thread ... thank you everyone. Think I'll tackle the saved plans head on when the new release comes out (if not sooner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
builtright3 Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 That's the part I have to figure out, is to set up my plan sets or views and to be tied into the right anno set. I haven't studied yet but if someone wants to shortcut me I would appreciate it. In other words: How do I tie it into what I already have set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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