Fix your nonsense, Chief!

[5Design]

Just one of myriad instances where I have to waste time because of your glitches.  Even on such a simple plan.

 

I add a window and door to a wall and you reverse the material on the model / elevation and even the material listed on the wall drop down, even thought it still shows accurate on the wall definition.

 

EVERY F'ING plan this happens on in some capacity.  I add or change something and you go tilt.  Looks like I'm heading to Revit.  So tired of this nonsense.

 

 

  

[para-CAD]

Wow.  That is so weird.

Is it always on the same template (like hidden geometry)?

 

Can you start a fresh plan, from a different plan template?

 

If you PM me the size and location of items (screen shot of your plan) I'll create it in my template and send it back to you.  

Then we can troubleshoot this together (NO CHARGE FOR FREE)

 

Also, someone thinks your frustration is worth a down vote.  That's lame.

Yes there are koolaid drinkers out there.

 

 

 

[mthd97]

You may have heard the saying “that a bad tradesman always blames his tools”. First we must learn how to use our tools correctly. I’m am very sure if you went over to the “R” word you will probably use the “F” more often. Probably just a simple user error. That has never happened to me in 25 years of using CA.

[CharlesVolz]

Please post the plan so we can all play along. I love a good mystery.

[glennw]

I will have one guess without the plan.

In the Wall Definition dbx, open the Materials tab and select one of the entries and then Select Material...

Down at the bottom of the Select Material dbx, select Use Default Material.

Do the same for the other material.

 

 

 

[SHCanada2]

I demonstrated this last year in a post. CA will, without telling you, change the material on an exterior wall under certain conditions. It occured for me when there was an exterior indent in a wall (like 2' in by 3' wide), and the if you go to changes this indent to something else, it flips the material on one of the walls

 

 

It was repeatable. And I logged it

@glennw suggested

"But if Chief is reversing your walls, you may want to look at the Auto Reverse Wall Layers setting."

 

From what I can tell that setting does not always work correctly. It may be worth a try to turn it off.

 

 

[DavidJPotter]

In thirty years of use I have not had this happen to me once I trained myself to carefully set and check settings and draw exterior walls in a clockwise fashion.

 

DJP

[GeneDavis]

If it happens to me, I'll switch.  From rye whiskey to scotch.

[DBCooper]

According to the pictures you posted, Chief is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.  The exterior wall surface says it is white and the interior wall surface says it is siding and this is what it looks like in the pictures.  It doesn't matter what the wall type definition says since the wall surface materials always override the wall type materials unless they are set to "default".  As far as I know, this is the way that it has always worked.

 

So the only mystery here is how did you change the wall materials without realizing it?  I am pretty sure it was not by placing a door or window.  It also doesn't look like it is related to the problem Jason mentioned because your wall does not look reversed in your plan view (although I can't be so sure about this).  So other than the obvious case that you used the material painter on the wall, I really have no idea how you got in this state.  

 

Regardless, the simple fix is to just set your wall surface materials back to "default" (as suggested by Glenn).  Most of the time when you have wall material problems this is the best solution.

 

For what it's worth, here is a tech article about wall materials that you might find helpful:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00005/changing-the-color-or-material-of-a-single-wall.html

 

[5Design]

On 1/28/2024 at 2:14 PM, GeneDavis said:

If it happens to me, I'll switch.  From rye whiskey to scotch.

Hah.  That's a good one.

[5Design]

21 hours ago, DBCooper said:

According to the pictures you posted, Chief is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.  The exterior wall surface says it is white and the interior wall surface says it is siding and this is what it looks like in the pictures.  It doesn't matter what the wall type definition says since the wall surface materials always override the wall type materials unless they are set to "default".  As far as I know, this is the way that it has always worked.

 

So the only mystery here is how did you change the wall materials without realizing it?  I am pretty sure it was not by placing a door or window.  It also doesn't look like it is related to the problem Jason mentioned because your wall does not look reversed in your plan view (although I can't be so sure about this).  So other than the obvious case that you used the material painter on the wall, I really have no idea how you got in this state.  

 

Regardless, the simple fix is to just set your wall surface materials back to "default" (as suggested by Glenn).  Most of the time when you have wall material problems this is the best solution.

 

For what it's worth, here is a tech article about wall materials that you might find helpful:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00005/changing-the-color-or-material-of-a-single-wall.html

 

On your first paragraph, no, that's what it changed to.  Chief did that all on it's own.  That's the point of the post.   I have the siding wall definition set on factory defaults (lap siding & drywall).  I selected all 4 walls and changed to a different siding material and color white.  So if Chief changing back to default wall definitions and reversing sides for whatever reason someone might come up with, once I've changed the materials manually and then decide to add a door or window is how it's supposed to work, then so be it.  But that's ridiculous.

 

Not a big deal to fix on a simple garage, obviously, but this happens on whole houses where I have multiple wall types with multiple different materials that I have selected, not painted.  And regardless if I paint the material or not, it shouldn't happen.  Or what is the tool for?  Point is, once I have manually selected a setting there is no reason it should revert to default or completely reverse/change the settings on the wall all on it's own.  It is a glitch (one of many). 

 

The nonsense is even more reflected in some of the answers above.  "I always draw the walls in a particular direction."  Great, and when your client comes back with an edit?  I drew 4 walls, all clockwise, btw, not that it should matter.  It's nonsense.  "If Chief is reversing your walls, look at your settings."  If Chief is reversing walls on a structure like this where it is obvious what is interior and exterior, for any reason, it's nonsense.  I could go on....

 

I'll take a look at the article.  Thanks.

[5Design]

On 1/27/2024 at 9:12 PM, mthd97 said:

You may have heard the saying “that a bad tradesman always blames his tools”. First we must learn how to use our tools correctly. I’m am very sure if you went over to the “R” word you will probably use the “F” more often. Probably just a simple user error. That has never happened to me in 25 years of using CA.

OK, skippy.  I'm sure you've never had an issue with Chief nonsense.

[5Design]

On 1/27/2024 at 8:58 PM, para-CAD said:

Wow.  That is so weird.

Is it always on the same template (like hidden geometry)?

 

Can you start a fresh plan, from a different plan template?

 

If you PM me the size and location of items (screen shot of your plan) I'll create it in my template and send it back to you.  

Then we can troubleshoot this together (NO CHARGE FOR FREE)

 

Also, someone thinks your frustration is worth a down vote.  That's lame.

Yes there are koolaid drinkers out there.

 

 

 

Thanks.  I'm sure there is some obscure, irrelevant setting that's causing it to tilt.  I've done hundreds of plans in Chief and it's always something.  My overall point in the post is that it shouldn't be the case, certainly not on such a basic structure and maybe someone at Chief will start to look at some of these things.  Point in fact, I didn't change any of the other settings, just went in and changed the materials (which I did to begin with) and left it at that.  But after all the responses here, just to prove a point, I went back, without changing anything, and added doors and windows to the other walls and guess what happened?  Nothing.  It just added the doors and windows.  It's a glitch, period.

 

In response to your questions, yes, I use the same template for each plan, which I am always trying to update and improve.  Happy to send it over for your input.

 

Thanks,

[5Design]

On 1/28/2024 at 12:15 AM, glennw said:

I will have one guess without the plan.

In the Wall Definition dbx, open the Materials tab and select one of the entries and then Select Material...

Down at the bottom of the Select Material dbx, select Use Default Material.

Do the same for the other material.

 

 

 

So how do you change materials?  The wall definition was on siding, I just changed it to a different siding.  Regardless, no reason for it to reverse the layers.

[5Design]

On 1/28/2024 at 12:17 AM, SHCanada2 said:

I demonstrated this last year in a post. CA will, without telling you, change the material on an exterior wall under certain conditions. It occured for me when there was an exterior indent in a wall (like 2' in by 3' wide), and the if you go to changes this indent to something else, it flips the material on one of the walls

 

 

It was repeatable. And I logged it

@glennw suggested

"But if Chief is reversing your walls, you may want to look at the Auto Reverse Wall Layers setting."

 

From what I can tell that setting does not always work correctly. It may be worth a try to turn it off.

 

 

OK, so that's a potential solution to the nonsense.  Not an excuse or logical reason for it happening.

Thanks,

[kellyh]

Hi Terry,

The behavior you're describing is not one I've personally experienced in my 13 years working at the company. I would love to get a copy of the plan you're experiencing this with along with detailed steps you went through that ended with you in this state. If this is truly a problem with Chief, the sooner we can get accurate information to our development team, the sooner they can begin working on a way to resolve your issue.

 

You're welcome to attach the plan here, or send in a copy to our technical support team using the Technical Support Center. If you've not used that before, here is a Knowledge Base article that walks through that process: https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00717/using-the-technical-support-center.html

[DBCooper]

Quote

 I selected all 4 walls and changed to a different siding material and color white.

 

Instead of opening all of the walls and changing the surface materials, you should try opening the wall type definition and change the siding and drywall layers there.  If you need some other walls with different materials, I would then create new wall types for them.  You can then keep all of your surface materials set to "default".   My guess is that you will have far less problems. 

 

If you always draw your exterior walls with the siding on the correct side, there really is no reason for the program to ever reverse them (until you get to some more unusual situations).  Regardless, if you don't want the program to ever reverse your walls automatically, you can turn off "auto reverse wall layers" in your general wall defaults.  You would then need to manually reverse them when needed.

 

I have never had any problems like what you are describing but from playing around with some different things, it looks like using surface materials and then reversing walls is probably the root of your problems.

 

If you are really planning on going over to revit, then you can just ignore my suggestions.  Best of luck though.

 

[para-CAD]

8 hours ago, 5Design said:

Thanks.  I'm sure there is some obscure, irrelevant setting that's causing it to tilt.  I've done hundreds of plans in Chief and it's always something.  My overall point in the post is that it shouldn't be the case, certainly not on such a basic structure and maybe someone at Chief will start to look at some of these things.  Point in fact, I didn't change any of the other settings, just went in and changed the materials (which I did to begin with) and left it at that.  But after all the responses here, just to prove a point, I went back, without changing anything, and added doors and windows to the other walls and guess what happened?  Nothing.  It just added the doors and windows.  It's a glitch, period.

 

In response to your questions, yes, I use the same template for each plan, which I am always trying to update and improve.  Happy to send it over for your input.

 

Thanks,

I love when I use chief for typical/standard home designs.  Super fast and accurate.  But when I am working on some really complex projects, I quickly see the limits of what chief can actually do.......and out come the work arounds.  

 

I approach design as a former framing contractor and when someone says to create a second floor that is 1/16" tall to achieve some desired result, that kind of thinking is completely foreign to me.  If I could wish for one thing for chief it would be to draw in the way the structure is actually framed.

 

I make no $$$ providing 3D renders, since people come to me for plans for permit that work.

I NEVER say...."the framers will figure it out on site."  That's just lazy or incompetent designer talk.

 

I feel your pain, like just the other day, I spent 2 ½ unbillable hours trying to get the model to reflect reality, but it just wouldn't.  I then revert to straight 2D for those issues since the permit office only wants dimensioned 2D plan sets.

 

Always I wish y'all the best in your design adventures.  Even the petty down voters. 

[mthd97]

9 hours ago, 5Design said:

OK, skippy.  I'm sure you've never had an issue with Chief nonsense.

That’s funny, in Australia they used to call the English Australians Skippy. BTW I am not the one jumping up and down over a simple thing like “auto wall flipping”. I am merely stating that if the program is being used correctly it should not be flipping the walls for you hopefully ?

 

It certainly would be great if you could post your template as has been suggested above so that they can rectify it for you.

 

It’s all cool if you want to use “R”. Just be warned that there are lot of things that it cannot do that CA can do, like auto timber framing for one. I have only used a demo version of “R” in the past and it seems like a good program for structural steel engineering on commercial projects.

 

Every CAD program has its own particular limitations and strengths. We employ the CAD products that works best for our own unique business model.

 

True I have had issues with CA too but I accepted its limitations after trying to resolve my issue with help here and from the training videos.

 

All good !

[CharlesVolz]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:01 PM, CharlesVolz said:

Please post the plan so we can all play along. I love a good mystery.

If you want definitive answers, post the plan. Otherwise it is just a political novel.

[glennw]

All these posts and still no plan posted!

[ValleyGuy]

I believe the key is the direction of wall travel. Clockwise in my plans produce proper interior / exterior materials. If I draw one wall counter clockwise, it will reverse the interior / exterior materials all while showing proper in plan view. This is w/ or w/o the 'Auto Reverse' checked in the defaults. 

I'm putting an addition onto an as-built right now, and when I have two walls drawn (clockwise) and start the last wall coming out from the existing building instead of continuing on - CA will make the intersection nicely in plan view, however it also consistently reverses the materials (the siding is the interior material and DW is on the exterior) on that last wall only, regardless if the wall position is clockwise of the last two walls. I run into the reversing materials quite often when drawing dormers, I just need to remember to draw clockwise and there doesn't seem to be any problems.

[GeneDavis]

I did some noodling around on various sites where R is discussed, and found lots of moaning and gnashing of teeth.

 

Having learned my lessons from what might seem like bugs, I've come to the practice of not changing wall layer elements for placed walls, but always making new wall types.  

[Chrisb222]

On 1/28/2024 at 1:15 AM, glennw said:

I will have one guess without the plan ... Use Default Material.

 

I'm with Glenn on this one. Without a plan file, we're free to suppose whatever we think might be the problem, and we know that one wrong hit with the Material Painter, or changing wall materials in the Materials tab, can wreak havoc.

 

OP states that he "selected all 4 walls and changed ..." The proper way to change all exterior walls is to change the Wall Definition. You only have to open one wall, or none if you go into Wall Types. There's a disconnect in the order of business here.

 

Also agree with others who have never experienced anything like this. If, as OP says, it happens EVERY FRIKKIN time... something's wrong with operations, or with the template file.

[GeneDavis]

Here's a plan I just did for a 24x24 garage with mono foundation, one OH door, one window, one man-door.  Size of file is 3.8Mb, would take one click to upload to a post, no zip required.  What is so hard about attaching a file?  Is the template all loaded up like a Rene Rabbit one and worth big bucks?  Copyrighted?