Chief Architect Software Licensing Changes Beginning January 10, 2023

[Chrisb222]

8 minutes ago, rgardner said:

That very point adds to my point regarding lack of revenue to chief by users who do not help with future development and thus should not reap benefits from it if they are not willing to keep SSA valid for $50 a month...

 

To be fair, users who aren't paying SSA are not reaping the benefits of future development.

 

I have no problem with someone who wants to simply chug along with an older version that they own. But I also see Chief's need to stay profitable, and support that too. 

 

They call stuff like this a "shake-up" for a reason.

[KenL-sdd]

1 hour ago, Renerabbitt said:

This decision will benefit me from the development of long awaited feature requests through dependable budgeting for Chief.
This decision will benefit me by thinning my low-budget, undercutting, competition on contract work.

Historical data shows me I am 500% faster than I was in X8...I have reaped benefits through increased margin for years...I don't love financial change, but a bit of pragmatism and a quick glance at your books should sit ones head back on straight.

Also...a good CPA should get you lined up and straightened out

 

I agree with Rene. I have used another cad system, Builders Cad, that quit updating their product and basically went out of business. I don't want that to happen again! That forced me to move to and learn another system, Chief Architect. Chief has done a good job of updating its product with new features. Hence I have always been more than happy to pay their SSA fee just to get the new features and libraries. I understand the SSA fees may not be enough to keep the product updates coming. I'm happy to see that Chief is keeping their existing users under their same program of the SSA. If I were a new user I would still buy Chief over any other software.

[Chrisb222]

6 minutes ago, Smn842 said:

 

Where have I missed the statement about this?

 

I asked CA directly and was told they couldn't make any statement about SSA pricing levels in future.

 

I've paid for SSA ever since I upgraded from HD Pro to Chief Premier X9 but as a home user not making any profit (or savings) from using Chief my only concern with the new licensing is if SSA pricing rapidly moving towards the subscription cost.

 

No, they're not going to guarantee any future pricing. As far as I've seen, they aren't even guaranteeing that legacy licenses will work forever. Someone said that information would be found in the Software License Agreement (a binding contract) but even though I read it and memorized it, that was eight years ago and I forgot some of the details. 

 

Does anyone have access to a legacy SLA, or know where to find it on our systems? I looked on mine and couldn't find it...

[HumbleChief]

6 minutes ago, lbuttery said:

The point is that a business should be designed to include the cost of the tools required to perform that business.

 

there is many a low-level business that can't afford $200/month

 

Lew

 

EXACTLY. CAD design software from a company that intends to provide a professional tool for professional users cannot accommodate' low-level businesses and it's the low-level businesses that provide Chief with no revenue. Chief has accommodated low-level businesses for far too long and thier business cannot tolerate that user any longer.

[Chrisb222]

4 minutes ago, M-Reed said:

This new pricing structure will, of course, hammer the last coffin nail for the small time users who might do but a few projects

 

I'll mention the hop-in / hop-out rental option again. Makes sense for folks like that.

[HumbleChief]

Just now, Chrisb222 said:

 

I'll mention the hop-in / hop-out rental option again. Makes sense for folks like that.

This is an amazing option for smaller businesses. If I have a single house to design I can factor in the cost of the rental into the design fees. And if a business can't afford that, again, the business is simply not viable.

[rgardner]

11 minutes ago, Smn842 said:

 

Where have I missed the statement about this?

 

I asked CA directly and was told they couldn't make any statement about SSA pricing levels in future.

 

I've paid for SSA ever since I upgraded from HD Pro to Chief Premier X9 but as a home user not making any profit (or savings) from using Chief my only concern with the new licensing is if SSA pricing rapidly moving towards the subscription cost.

They have stated this three times in this thread as well as the email sent out.  The SSA price is not going up on Jan 10th...

 

Can you say that in your business three years from now you won't have a need to raise your prices for services offered?  They had to raise SSA last year from $525 to $595 to help defray parts of the costs.  They have stated this year it is not going up.  That is all we can ask for.  Again, their intention as stated several times by them is not to punish their regular clients who use ssa and pay their part to further development.  The issue is too many users who use old versions of the software and expect to not pay for ssa which gives upgrades and that the old version will work forever...  That doesn't work in software.  Never has.  Otherwise you could complain that Windows 3.1 no longer works and how dare windows charge for an upgrade??

[HumbleChief]

8 minutes ago, M-Reed said:

This new pricing structure will, of course, hammer the last coffin nail for the small time users who might do but a few projects due to the current financial situation in the United States and the world.

This might actually be intended as small time users add very little value, in general, to the company

[rgardner]

16 minutes ago, lbuttery said:

These are pirated versions

 

No, they are legitimate versions

 

some are pirated - but many are legitimate

 

Lew

No they are not legitimate licenses if chief does not authorize the sale.  It is a breach of the user contract and thus becomes an illegitimate copy same as a pirated copy.

[rgardner]

19 minutes ago, lbuttery said:

The point is that a business should be designed to include the cost of the tools required to perform that business.

 

there is many a low-level business that can't afford $200/month

 

Lew

 

Then argument would lend to using a non professional program such as HD pro, or other drafting program as they are not the demographic that Premier or Interiors is aimed towards.

[rgardner]

13 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

No, they're not going to guarantee any future pricing. As far as I've seen, they aren't even guaranteeing that legacy licenses will work forever. Someone said that information would be found in the Software License Agreement (a binding contract) but even though I read it and memorized it, that was eight years ago and I forgot some of the details. 

 

Does anyone have access to a legacy SLA, or know where to find it on our systems? I looked on mine and couldn't find it...

Yesterday's email to all users states:

"Perpetual (lifetime) software licenses will no longer be sold after this date. This change will not affect your existing software or active Support and Software Assurance (SSA). If your SSA expires, your software will continue to function; however, the SSA will no longer be renewable. To learn more, please see our software licensing FAQ."

[Chrisb222]

8 minutes ago, rgardner said:

Yesterday's email to all users states:

"Perpetual (lifetime) software licenses will no longer be sold after this date. This change will not affect your existing software or active Support and Software Assurance (SSA). If your SSA expires, your software will continue to function; however, the SSA will no longer be renewable. To learn more, please see our software licensing FAQ."

 

Yes, I've read that several times looking for a guarantee that legacy licenses will not stop working. It's implied but not specifically stated.

 

And I found the SLA, using Help search for "license." It also does not mention how long the legacy license lasts. Does that mean forever? Or when Chief decides to deactivate it?

 

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[CharlesVolz]

12 hours ago, rgardner said:

Then argument would lend to using a non professional program such as HD pro, or other drafting program as they are not the demographic that Premier or Interiors is aimed towards.

 

That is what I am thinking. If someone cannot justify the cost because they are not using it enough for professional work, then why don't they use HDPro? And how do people stay proficient in such a capable but complicated software.

[rgardner]

16 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

I've read that several times looking for a guarantee that legacy licenses will not stop working. It's implied but not specifically stated.

Because they cannot predict that you will have a computer that will 100% be alive 50 years from now with an old OS that is capable of running that version of the software.  Otherwise someone would say in 10 years.  Hey my version x4 stopped working because of windows 2032 wont run it...  I want a version for free because you stated we will always be able to use this legacy license...

[Alaskan_Son]

2 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

For me personally, should I opt out of SSA at some point I'll simply keep an older system running, to avoid OS obsolescence. I've done it before with other software.

 

Not a bad approach.  There's a reason thousands and thousands of companies are still using Windows XP.  Its exactly this situation.  They either can't get newer software that does what they need, or upgrading would be too cost prohibitive. 

[joey_martin]

I have stayed quiet on this but in all honesty, I simply don't see the issue. I use Chief daily, make a very, very good living with it. Even if my SSA goes to $2k/yr at some point, I am in. I can't imagine leaving now and starting over after almost 20 years with this software. 

 

Now, what I do see is this. Chief Premier is, in my opinion, a professional grade architectural software, and should be priced as such. I think what this model will eliminate are the DIY'ers that ****** it up and do a project and move on. There is a Home Designer product line for those folks. If this change brings more professionals on board, I'm good with that. For at least the last decade I have felt that there could be a huge, untapped market for Chief with more design professionals. Residential architects and designers that are looking for a more residential friendly package will now see a package wrapped accordingly, rather than seeing John and Jane Doe soliciting for help cleaning up their mess because they got in over their heads. Is Revit ripe with DIY'ers that think this job is easy?

 

Just my thoughts. 

[Chrisb222]

26 minutes ago, rgardner said:

Because they cannot predict that you will have a computer that will 100% be alive 50 years from now with an old OS that is capable of running that version of the software.  

 

Of course. When I said "stop working" I meant due to the license having been deactivated. The software requires periodic validation over the internet or it will "stop working." Have they guaranteed us they won't simply decommission legacy licenses at some future point, in order to completely close out the "ownership" model??

 

No one would expect a software program to continue working indefinitely on newer hardware/OS, that's absurd.

[rgardner]

Just now, Chrisb222 said:

 

Of course. When I said "stop working" I meant due to the license having been deactivated. The software requires periodic validation over the internet or it will "stop working." Have they guaranteed us they won't simply decommission legacy licenses at some future point, in order to completely close out the "ownership" model??

 

No one would expect a software program to continue working indefinitely on newer hardware/OS.

Yes they have said "

 

55 minutes ago, rgardner said:

This change will not affect your existing software or active Support and Software Assurance (SSA). If your SSA expires, your software will continue to function; however, the SSA will no longer be renewable.

"

It is stated there that it will continue to operate.  That is their "statement"

 

2 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

No one would expect a software program to continue working indefinitely on newer hardware/OS.

But many people now a days are very litigious and would try to take advantage of a blanket statement saying "we guarantee you will always have use of your legacy license".  Those type of users who would hold them to that are what they unfortunately have to protect against.

 

This is really all that I am going to say about this as I feel it has been beaten into the ground.

 

Summary of all.  If you are a professional user and use chief to make a living with your business you 100% know that SSA is worth it and you will continue to work forward with chief.  If you are a part time user or hobbyist and not paying ssa now then you can still use your old license as long as your OS will support it.  If not then they have given a pretty good alternative.  Pay $200 for a month to use the program for your occasional project and consider that a cost of the project and price it accordingly.  Premier and Interiors are professional products not a DIY product.  The professional users who pay ssa understand that chief needs to be able to continue to grow or it will die.

[rgardner]

23 minutes ago, joey_martin said:

Residential architects and designers that are looking for a more residential friendly package will now see a package wrapped accordingly, rather than seeing John and Jane Doe soliciting for help cleaning up their mess because they got in over their heads. Is Revit ripe with DIY'ers that think this job is easy?

I think that sums it up.

[Renerabbitt]

1 hour ago, M-Reed said:

Chief was originally focused on builders and home owners. this forum once catered to such and was like a big family for several years. ART became Chief Architect Inc. and hired a new CEO and the focus seemed to gradually switch over to Architects and other "professionals" over the builders and homeowners.

Just a wild hunch..
More professional tools are coming to further divide the home designer line and the premier line. I would guess that the home designer line will be sufficient for almost all of the hobbyists and occasional tradesmen. 

I lost a project to a hobbyist last year, no more.
You want me to compile your home designer project in premier, great, can do for you, win win.
Maybe what I have always wanted for this industry is coming true...collaboration. Absolutely zero reason why you shouldn't hire someone like @M-Reed or @ericepv or @rgardner of the world where the cost-benefit creates additional margin and your timelines are increased in a market short on reputable and accessible designers.

Does the 12-project-a-year intermediate drafter need 20% improvement that an intermediate technician might realize in speed from the premier line...No. Use the HD line, its priced accordingly

 

Want the best, pay for it, same as any other product

Will I need to repair models done by other technicians overselling their services..yes, but not as often.

Looking forward to seeing the user base get more serious. Let's advocate for change. The industry could use an overhaul and I am happy to be more distinguished from the casual user.

Funding for the premier line, from my understanding, opinion and perspective comes in part from the sales of the home designer line that moves a lot of units per year. This is a troubled model for business, a few steps away from robbing Peter to pay Paul. This means that Chief has always operated solely on historical data for development, knowing what they could roughly afford, as opposed to hard numbers for their consumer base.

Chief is going to need info and demographic sales numbers + more to develop cloud computing, AI, instancing and proxies, polycrunching, BIM and more if they intend to stay relevant, and if you have followed anything in the development industry..this is no small task. Thus far they have relied on infrastructure similar to an established SDK, or maybe related to open source forking etc. This software is becoming more specialized, so they will need more funding for development as we move through this decade into web3.0 and Metaworlds. 
This announcement is a small hiccup in the automation that is to come.
 

[richoffan]

I posted on Nov 30th "Cull the litter" I apologized then as I thought I was being too harsh - who knew. Chief has answered my concerns and for that my sincere thanks. I do wish they could keep a card on file for auto renewal but until then - my responsibility... I agree completely with Joey, Ryan and Rene et al  I always wonder and am usually frustrated by users as Joey so eloquently and accurately described. This is a professional system and I wish the marketing better differentiated it from HD. Chief is an excellent tool ergo I've used it for 28 years. How the "occasional" user can work it IDK I can't remember the last set of plans I drew that didn't have a WTF moment - usually self-inflicted occasionally a work around but as my father used to say " that's why they call it work" As I try to explain to the above mentioned user buying TurboTax does not make you an accountant. Home and / or remodeling design is a craft that takes time to learn and even more time to master. There is no substitute for experience. To the speed Rene mentions -  that is absolutely correct but for me and equally or more important is the quality of plans I can produce - Kaisen made easy!

I've tempered my thoughts from Nov 30. Maybe it was broke and this is a needed fix.

To Chief Architect and all the wonderful people who make it happen Thank You and Merry Christmas

[DanielleDubuc]

This is very sad news. I was pointing the SSA advantages to my students when comparing with the other drawing softwares. The lower price was more affordable for young people that start in life. Now that the SSA is not a point anymore what would be the advantage for them to learn another software than the one they studied at school?

 

I think it is important to target young clients since they are still experimenting with new software. Once they made their mind and get used to another software, they won't be as willing to spend time in learn something else. It will be more difficult to convince them to change for Chief Architect. So if the price is not a point anymore, they will stay with what the already know.

 

I hope, no I beg Chief Architect to change their mind and keep the SSA for the new subscriptions. This would keep CA in an advantageous position compare to other drawing software.

[havard]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:23 PM, havard said:

 

Good thing I'm still within the 30 day money back period. Will be getting a refund tomorrow.

 

As a follow up, I do want to say that Chief is the easiest company I have dealt with on getting a refund. Hopefully all this rental nonsense works out for them and anyone that's a customer. And none of that changes the fact that it's still the best product at what it does.

[Smn842]

1 hour ago, joey_martin said:

I think what this model will eliminate are the DIY'ers that ****** it up and do a project and move on. There is a Home Designer product line for those folks.

 

There should be some clarification of "DIY'er" here.

 

I am a DIY/home/hobby user and bought Chief Premier and years of SSA so I can experiment with ideas for a number of projects for my home and the previous ones before that.   None of this work deprives the companies that I eventually employ for kitchen, bathroom, extensions etc from revenue or gives them work to fix as they do their design work from scratch around the ideas I've considered which actually makes their life easier.

 

Over nearly 4 decades as I moved from home to home I've found it difficult to plan renovations over 5 to 6 year periods with various contractors and this had lead to rework of electrics, plumbing etc (in all but my first home where I did all the work myself).  Using Chief enables me to visualise lots of potential changes and show renderings to companies of what I hope to achieve whilst enabling to me make them aware of how projects down the line that could be impacted or depend on their work.

 

I used HD Pro for two years before its limitations became too significant and upgraded to Premier (some due to UK construction differences). As my day job is software I am in favour of subscription and am happy to pay SSA to support Chief.  I am not the target user of the software but that doesn't mean I shouldn't care about a significant investment in Chief, both time and money possibly coming to and end due to SSA increasing to rental levels.

 

Hopefully SSA increases more in line with general prices and I can remain a user as I don't fancy going back to Revit. 

[lbuttery]

cannot accommodate' low-level businesses

 

yet, many a low-level business turns into a high volume business

 

Lew