DeLayDesign Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, KristjanM said: I think this is a terrible change from Chief. This does nothing for the user and only benefits Chief. I left Revit exactly due to the implementation of the subscription model. With Softplan, if you own a version and pay their version of the SSA, you get the updates as they come out. However you don't own the new version and if you quit the SSA, you only have rights to your original version. So, a possible scenario. You create a project in Version 16 (you own Version 14) and decide that you no longer need the SSA updates. You can no longer use Version 16 and can't open any projects created with it. This is exactly what happens with Softplan. I would like to hear Chief's explanation about what version of the software one is actually going to own. -------------- Hi @KristjanM what you've posted isn't quite right. I click on the FAQ link at the top and this is what I discovered: 'Yes free upgrades you receive as part of your legacy license SSA will continue as a perpetual (permanent) license.' - So with this I would assume in 4 years having paid my SSA continuously for that time my new perpetual license (theoretically) would be version X18. Meaning if I decided to no longer continue my SSA I'm stuck in X18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristjanM Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Re: The cost To purchase a copy of Chief with SSA for 5 years would give you a cost for 5 years of $5,937. For 5 years of subscription (1 year at 1,995 plus 4 years at 2,375), the cost is $11,495. Something wrong with this scenario. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBCooper Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Under the current system: 1 year cost = $3295 2 year cost = $3295 + $595 = $3890 3 year cost = $3295 + $595 + $595 = $4485 4 year cost = $3295 + $595 + $595 + $595 = $5080 Under the new system: 1 year cost = $1995 2 year cost = $1995 + $1995 = $3990 3 year cost = $1995 + $1995 + $1995 = $5985 4 year cost = $1995 + $1995 + $1995 + $1995 = $7980 This of course assumes that the prices won't change in the future (but I suspect they will since that is what prices do). So the new system is less expensive at first but more expensive over time. That's probably a good argument for keeping your SSA current. I wonder if they will let us buy multiple years of SSA at today's price? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristjanM Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 If you indeed get to keep the most current version as per the SSA, that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLayDesign Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, DBCooper said: Under the current system: 1 year cost = $3295 2 year cost = $3295 + $595 = $3890 3 year cost = $3295 + $595 + $595 = $4485 4 year cost = $3295 + $595 + $595 + $595 = $5080 Under the new system: 1 year cost = $1995 2 year cost = $1995 + $1995 = $3990 3 year cost = $1995 + $1995 + $1995 = $5985 4 year cost = $1995 + $1995 + $1995 + $1995 = $7980 This of course assumes that the prices won't change in the future (but I suspect they will since that is what prices do). So the new system is less expensive at first but more expensive over time. That's probably a good argument for keeping your SSA current. I wonder if they will let us buy multiple years of SSA at today's price? --------------- Both are essentially 'subscriptions', however. The biggest takeaway from this would be that under the first scenario your license is yours to keep and continue to use even after your stop resubscribing to the SSA. The second scenario is more expensive and also does not allow you to use the software if the subscription isn't paid. Consider your choice wisely. Keep in mind if you don't have a current SSA plan they are giving you the opportunity to reinstate (purchase) your SSA - this may require additional funds if you're out a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havard Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Quote That's a nice design you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it. Good thing I'm still within the 30 day money back period. Will be getting a refund tomorrow. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Guys, isn't SSA 525.00 and not 595.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefArchitect Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 6 hours ago, DavidJames said: New license subscription: Monthly subscription: $199 Annual subscription: $1,995 (save 16%) When that promotional discount of 16% comes to an end ($2,375), it puts CA in the same ballpark as Revit Architecture ($2,675). @DavidJames the annual subscription price of $1,995 is not a promotional price. This is the discount for paying for the year up front as opposed to paying $199 monthly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richoffan Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 So the software is going to cost more...a lot more. It some ways it will "cull the litter" oh well (sorry just got a new puppy!) I do strongly feel Chief has an obligation to its long time users, supporters, testers, collaborators (you get the idea) to a definitive pricing structure for SSA for the foreseeable future. "Joe, the SSA price will not change on Jan. 10." is not an answer. A grace period for renewal and / or a way to keep a card on file - everyone from MS to Adobe to Norton etc can do it - I'm sure you can figure it out. For how long will our perpetual licenses be supported (guaranteed) if a user choses to opt out of SSA and many other things. For the record not happy. It ain't broke - don't fix it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJames Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, ChiefArchitect said: @DavidJames the annual subscription price of $1,995 is not a promotional price. This is the discount for paying for the year up front as opposed to paying $199 monthly. Thanks for the clarification. I quickly glanced at it and assumed that it was an early promotional discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richoffan Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Not any more Perry $595 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 12 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said: Guys, isn't SSA 525.00 and not 595.00 As of the current listing on Chief's Website - it's $595 to renew if it's expired. But there's no other price listed so I don't know if that's the normal renewal price. The key is - don't let it expire. I also note that there appears to be a sale on additional licenses right now - next 10 days - at $1995.00 IAE, I'll continue to pay my SSA every year so I will have the current version as my "owned" license. It's just the cost of the new features and the SSA Fee is quite reasonable IMO. Dinner for 2 once a week at our favorite restaurant and a couple of tanks of gas each month - is more than the annual SSA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: As of the current listing on Chief's Website - it's $595 to renew if it's expired. But there's no other price listed so I don't know if that's the normal renewal price. The key is - don't let it expire. I also note that there appears to be a sale on additional licenses right now - next 10 days - at $1995.00 IAE, I'll continue to pay my SSA every year so I will have the current version as my "owned" license. It's just the cost of the new features and the SSA Fee is quite reasonable IMO. i checked mine and it says renew for 525.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said: i checked mine and it says renew for 525.00 Perry, What area of the Chief Website did you go to see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richoffan Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Was 525 . Increased to 595. Ergo my feeling we should know what this fee structure will be. 14% per year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 57 minutes ago, DBCooper said: I wonder if they will let us buy multiple years of SSA at today's price? They used to as I bought 2yrs before the price went up to $595 33 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said: Guys, isn't SSA 525.00 and not 595.00 I think it went to $595 Jan 9th 2021 didn't it ? been a while .... M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenPalmer Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: the cost of the new features and the SSA Fee is quite reasonable IMO. Totally agree the pricing now is reasonable...as long as they keep it in the $600 range we currently pay and continue to receive the discounts we receive on additional licenses we have. However, if I'm reading it correctly, if I were to buy my 3 licenses on or after January 10th, the cost would be: (1995+1295+1295) $4585 That's over a 350% increase from my current annual fee!! That is a MASSIVE price increase!! I don't see anything that says legacy will be the same price ($595) on Jan 10. Chief needs to let us know what the legacy pricing is going to be on January 10th. They seem to 'imply' it will remain the same price structure, but they certainly don't tell us. On a side note, I do think they are doing the right thing by keeping the license perpetual. However, that's only for legacy folks. New licenses don't have the same luxury. With the massive price increase for new licenses and lack of ownership, I'm not seeing Chief as an attractive option for new folks. Please feel free to correct or clarify any of my comments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiefArchitect said: The current Chief Architect End User License Agreement does not allow selling or transferring a license to another party. Something has changed then as Chief has always allowed Transfers of Licenses, I have several Clients who bought 2nd Hand copies of Chief, eg X12 and paid the $50 Transfer fee at the time ( this does not include SSA since it has never been transferable, you had to upgrade to the latest version to receive SSA ). ( see Section 3 of the EULA ) https://cloud.chiefarchitect.com/1/pdf/eulas/chief-architect-end-user-license-agreement.pdf M. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richoffan Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Agreed - it ain't broke.... and the SSA is reasonable. My point exactly. Of "many other things" what of folks wanting to add a license to their current perpetual for future expansion. Or that have additional licenses that simply don't need an immediate upgrade given the coming uncertainty....'Jus sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 35 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: Perry, What area of the Chief Website did you go to see that? you know what it said 525 earlier today when I checked, and now it says 595. I looked in the buy/ renewal tabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobUSMC Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 47 minutes ago, richoffan said: So the software is going to cost more...a lot more. It some ways it will "cull the litter" oh well (sorry just got a new puppy!) I do strongly feel Chief has an obligation to its long time users, supporters, testers, collaborators (you get the idea) to a definitive pricing structure for SSA for the foreseeable future. "Joe, the SSA price will not change on Jan. 10." is not an answer. A grace period for renewal and / or a way to keep a card on file - everyone from MS to Adobe to Norton etc can do it - I'm sure you can figure it out. For how long will our perpetual licenses be supported (guaranteed) if a user choses to opt out of SSA and many other things. For the record not happy. It ain't broke - don't fix it. I agree. I have been using Chief since version 8.0 back in 1999 and there should be a sort of loyalty on the part of CA since users life myself have been loyal to them for 20+ years and with three licenses. I hope they do the right thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterwiley Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 My SSA expires on January 17th 2023. I will be out of the country then and might not have access to renew. I just went to the products page to renew my SSA and was then presented with this message below. If you are making this new system so critical for us existing users to renew our SSA on time or face the consequences of a 300% price increase then might I suggest you revamp the renewal system for SSA that will show our current payment information, allow for backup payment information, early renewals, and other pertinent details at all times so we can modify payment details in case our credit card number changes, expires, or something else that keeps us from being active at the crucial moment. I feel like I share in some confusion and worry about how this is about to be implemented. I love Chief! Happy to pay for it. I just don't need extra steps or stress involved with it 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 59 minutes ago, misterwiley said: My SSA expires on January 17th 2023 I believe they normally only allow it online 30 days before it expires ( when you normally get the Email reminder ) but you can call in and setup a yearly autopay with your CC or pay for multiple years ahead, at least both were allowed last time I did it. ( just before last price hike - $525 > $595 ) they also used to allow pro-rating so you can move the renewal to July for example if you are away every Jan. ? ie pay for 18mths now.... M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesternDesign Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 3 hours ago, BenPalmer said: Totally agree the pricing now is reasonable...as long as they keep it in the $600 range we currently pay and continue to receive the discounts we receive on additional licenses we have. However, if I'm reading it correctly, if I were to buy my 3 licenses on or after January 10th, the cost would be: (1995+1295+1295) $4585 That's over a 350% increase from my current annual fee!! That is a MASSIVE price increase!! I don't see anything that says legacy will be the same price ($595) on Jan 10. Chief needs to let us know what the legacy pricing is going to be on January 10th. They seem to 'imply' it will remain the same price structure, but they certainly don't tell us. On a side note, I do think they are doing the right thing by keeping the license perpetual. However, that's only for legacy folks. New licenses don't have the same luxury. With the massive price increase for new licenses and lack of ownership, I'm not seeing Chief as an attractive option for new folks. Please feel free to correct or clarify any of my comments. I am planning on adding a 4th seat but I need to know that that seat will have the same SSA option and what the expected cost of maintaining the 4 seats will be over the next few years. What do they plan for fee increases each year? I need to make a decision soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 5 hours ago, DeLayDesign said: It only changes if you don't continue your SSA. well the other thing it changes is the residual value of your perpetual license. consider if you paid $2600 for the license 5 years ago and paid SSA every year, and now you have X14. Say you are now retiring or getting out of the biz, you could sell your X14 licenses at a discount, but still get probably what,...$1800 for it? But after Jan, what would you get? so we all just lost some of that residual value, because if someone was to buy X14 from you after january it is now tombstoned at X14. I can tell you when I bought X12 from someone, I bought it because I could upgrade it, and that upgrade fee determined the price. now, what would someone pay for X14? It is still worth something but with no upside to the next version, I suspect that would reduce the price significantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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