TheKitchenAbode Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, HumbleChief said: As far as upgrading to the next version with or without RTRT I'm all in as I've watched Chief just get a little bit better with each version in ways that have objectively improved my productivity. RTRT? Not required for me but must say if Chief can get their act together re: same I would not complain (much lol). There's no doubt that you will do no harm by upgrading. My advice according to current political correctness is to be "Cautiously Optimistic". For myself I will hold off until I get a chance to evaluate X13, fortunately my GTX 1060 can Raytrace and though it will be slow I will still be able to see if the effect is worthy of an upgrade. If not I will just continue with regular PBR'ing or look further into a 3rd party renderer. I guess for myself I feel less of an urgency as I'm already able to obtain reflections in my PBR's that are in my opinion essentially as good as the ones shown in the demo. X12 PBR with Reflections 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, HumbleChief said: From my experience Chief has consistently added new features that were kinda OK and many simply unfinished with pimples for all to see and then never revisited the feature again to improve or make truly useful. The glass house reference feature (among many) comes to mind. So much potential but unusable in (my) real world application. Will RTRT reflect that same MO? Will it only be eye candy for those without a true sweet tooth like the professional rendering experts here? Or will it evolve and change and grow in to a state of the art rendering engine that the professionals at such things can truly master and implement? Dunno. I agree....and what I saw in the new 3D shape modeling and even the new section tool in x13 fits this bill exactly to your point. I watch a few different webinars from software companies and I'm always amazed in the Chief webinars how fast the questions devolve into "why doesn't chief do this" sort of questions. Kinda like the issue related to truss heels I think you brought up - and then furthered into why or how Chief thought it best not to measure a heal the way every other truss company does. This tends to happen when there isn't a solid resource the developers can use to ask builders, designers, or architects how something should work....instead they do it and hope its right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 35 minutes ago, johnny said: I agree....and what I saw in the new 3D shape modeling and even the new section tool in x13 fits this bill exactly to your point. I watch a few different webinars from software companies and I'm always amazed in the Chief webinars how fast the questions devolve into "why doesn't chief do this" sort of questions. Kinda like the issue related to truss heels I think you brought up - and then furthered into why or how Chief thought it best not to measure a heal the way every other truss company does. This tends to happen when there isn't a solid resource the developers can use to ask builders, designers, or architects how something should work....instead they do it and hope its right. ...or like having a concrete slab treated like a 'room' with a ceiling or even a roof if one thought one was needed within a concrete slab 'room'? The list is sadly pretty long and some of the decisions were made by people who have never built anything - ever - but even given all of the niggles I still look forward to each new release, like I am with X13, because my productivity goes up every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 hours ago, HumbleChief said: ...or like having a concrete slab treated like a 'room' with a ceiling or even a roof if one thought one was needed within a concrete slab 'room'? The list is sadly pretty long and some of the decisions were made by people who have never built anything - ever - but even given all of the niggles I still look forward to each new release, like I am with X13, because my productivity goes up every time. ...or even take the inability to reuse complex elements from one design to another. Say I go model a timber-frame porch or stair-case and want to copy/paste in another design - not possible with Chief since we cannot block walls and other elements which are critical to the definition process of a "space". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Johnny, Can you explain in a bit more detail why you can't copy/paste into a new plan? Why do you need to block walls or other elements to do a copy/paste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJames Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 21 hours ago, johnny said: However you look at it, Chief is spending FAR more time on things that will sell new copies of their software to users that fit a target client which is not representative of my company, or many on this forum. They seem to be developing in order to make big splashes in sales booths or youtube videos wherein a few clicks blows the audience away and they open their wallets to buy a copy or two imagining they will ride off into sunset and save thousands by not needing a design professional any longer. The design professional needs better stair modeling tools, or generic solid modeling etc...not faster watercoloring renderings (again, as a for instance). My company has started a process of examining alternatives to Chief - and we're exploring ArchiCad in depth right now. We may have 14 copes of X12-X13 to sell...who knows. This is exactly what it is. It seems like since X9, the company has shifted the focus mostly to making things look pretty all in an effort to sell more copies to new users while neglecting the productivity features that matter to the long-term user. Sure the 3D view may look pretty (which is does), but the road to getting there can be hours upon hours of frustration. My business is 99% clients reaching out and asking me to quote on permit packages for city permit. At absolutely no point am I trying to "wow" clients with 3D images in the hopes to land a project. When I secure projects, what I need is software that will get the job done correctly, efficiently, and without the need to fight/trick it into doing what I want it to do, all of which produce a final product that looks professional. I've been using Chief since X3 and unfortunately there are just far too many frustrations/quirks/issues/missing features that the guys over at Chief keep deciding to ignore... and the list keeps growing. Last year I decided to make the switch to Revit for all my construction drawings and honestly, I wish I would have done it sooner. Sure it takes longer initially as you have to create a lot of your own families (windows, doors, trims etc), but once you get that out of the way, you'll find the whole design experience monumentally more enjoyable w/ minimal to no headaches. Revit is light years ahead of Chief in terms of: Terrain design/manipulation Object snapping Custom object generation Smart 3D models Generic 3D modeling (imagine polyline solids that can host windows, doors etc) Auto-linked sections Auto-linked callouts CAD tools CAD Exporting Level adjustments (adjusting ceiling heights, roof heights, b/o concrete heights is a breeze) Phasing (absolutely incredible feature for renovations!) Layouts Drafting options like duplicating views/layouts Temporary Hide/Isolate options 2D Detailing Sloping slabs Masking features Alignment options/behaviour Draw distance in elevation views Speed of operation Overall quality of drawings ... and many more Over the last year, I've been closely watching what would come out with X13 and... yet again, another disappointment. At this point the only things that Chief does well (and I'm talking really well) is to quickly create floor plans, and provide 3D views of said floor plans/simple spaces and/or the exterior of simple structures. If a client reached out and asked me to create a 3D render of an interior space, I wouldn't even think twice to do the design in Chief as there isn't anything out there that's faster (though I would still export everything into Lumion for rendering) Anything beyond that, no thanks. I'll pass. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Revit sure costs a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJames Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Just now, GeneDavis said: Revit sure costs a lot. Well worth it in my opinion. A 2 year subscription for Revit (full) is paid for with one project. Also, most people can get away with Revit LT which is $450 / year... which is extremely reasonable if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 42 minutes ago, glennw said: Johnny, Can you explain in a bit more detail why you can't copy/paste into a new plan? Why do you need to block walls or other elements to do a copy/paste? Hi Glenn - Let me make a video to explain - i will post. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 These discussion almost always evolve, as they should, into what software works best for which user within which business model. They can also devolve, which they should not IMO, into Chief bashing or other software promoting as if there were a single solution for every user. It's too simple to just use what works for each user. I've been using Chief for over 20 years, am 67 going on 68 years old and would never even consider another software package at this point in my life/career. Does that make me a Chief fan boi? Perhaps, but that's only because of my current career situation and goals. Watched a Revit video once and was shocked by how long it took to do the simplest of tasks and for my business the simplest of tasks is how I make a living. More complex stuff and I might have considered other software so Chief is neither good nor bad. Revit is neither good nor bad and deciding which one fits your business model is the only real decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, johnny said: Hi Glenn - Let me make a video to explain - i will post. JP Love how these threads go sideways, looking forward to the video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, HumbleChief said: 67 going on 68 years old and would never even consider another software package at this point in my life/career. That is a good point..and if I was in my 60's looking at retirement soon it probably wouldn't make sense. I'm in my low 40's so i have some time to go...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnoxx Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Anyone had a sideways look at Andrew Peel's continually improving Home Builder software in Blender? Seems a really promising work-in-progress by a really accomplished guy. Would be keen to hear the opinions of the experts here on Andrew's stuff. I'm blown away by all the upcoming hardware and software developments coming now from ALL the vendors. Seems like a new Golden age of computing! Beginning to feel like a little kid about to be let loose in the sweetshop all over again! Come April next year, I'm finally going to spring for a whole new system, and reward myself with the works. Since I last did this yonks ago, I've fallen way behind in my PC hardware/software knowledge, and who does what best, and where the price/capability sweetspot is ... There is now so much new stuff to get one's head around first. And then something new and better starts emerging on the horizon. Like surfing the waves ... wait! ... wait ! ... the one coming behind is BIGGER!!! A real moving target ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, Jonnoxx said: I'm blown away by all the upcoming hardware and software developments coming now from ALL the vendors. Seems like a new Golden age of computing! True that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 3 hours ago, mhdjawwad said: To bring CA to the level you see in renderers such as D5 Render, VRay and Autodesk Arnold the following needs to be done. Though I agree with your commentary and recommendations it seems that you may have missed the point I was attempting to make, which was that CA even with their existing program could produce better renderings than their demonstration depicts. My posted examples were not stated to be equivalent to what can be achieved in other 3rd party renderers, they are to be viewed within the context of CA only. Personally I have never expected CA to rival dedicated 3rd party renderers, I just wish they would spend some time fixing what they have so it is easier for users to generate a decent rendering without so much fussing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougDM Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 3:24 PM, HumbleChief said: Webinar is showing all the new features. VERY nice, but for PC only... Yeah, for now...Apple hasn't even released a video card yet to accommodate RTRT. Supposedly by the end of 2021. If I heard correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskogg Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 11/15/2020 at 3:25 PM, MarkMc said: I mainly do remodel design and what I do for window placement when doing the asbuilt plan at the home is measure to inside of windows and add 1.5” to account for frame and then measure to nearest wall and use Temp dimension to place and add 3/4”... easy peasy And if you can’t add in your head you just +.75 to the dimension you just lasered... it doesn’t get any easier than this, not sure what the big deal is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskogg Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 As mentioned I do mostly remodels, my laptop is a few years old and works just fine to do an asbuilt on site but is struggling to keep up when I have a model with 700,000 surfaces. i mostly use pbr and wc to show customers their design... because I am using the design to get the remodel the ease of which I can do this and the result is important for me. Also I can then use past designs to show future customers how I can show them their new design Thinks like stairs drives me crazy... they never seem to work.. so ca needs to make these kind of things work! Anyhow I really like keeping up to date as @Alaskan_Son does and my new desktop computer lands next week... with a RTX 3080... bring on rtrt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 This thread has me thinking a bit more. I cannot argue the nuances nor their importance within a perfectly rendered image that looks genuinely life like but I don't have clients that would notice such things and if I did I would try and find a way to not have them as clients any longer. If I were to present any one of the images shown in this thread, complete with light leaks and not quite right reflections, they would be thrilled. Does that simply reflect badly on myself and my clientele? Or is that more a reflection (see what I did there?) of a real world client presentation? Dunno but have never had a client call out minor (or major depending on one's perspective) rendering errors other than color which they are always warned cannot be reproduced accurately. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 6 hours ago, HumbleChief said: This thread has me thinking a bit more. I cannot argue the nuances nor their importance within a perfectly rendered image that looks genuinely life like but I don't have clients that would notice such things and if I did I would try and find a way to not have them as clients any longer. If I were to present any one of the images shown in this thread, complete with light leaks and not quite right reflections, they would be thrilled. Does that simply reflect badly on myself and my clientele? Or is that more a reflection (see what I did there?) of a real world client presentation? Dunno but have never had a client call out minor (or major depending on one's perspective) rendering errors other than color which they are always warned cannot be reproduced accurately. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskogg Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 On 11/16/2020 at 11:43 AM, johnny said: I agree....and what I saw in the new 3D shape modeling and even the new section tool in x13 fits this bill exactly to your point. I watch a few different webinars from software companies and I'm always amazed in the Chief webinars how fast the questions devolve into "why doesn't chief do this" sort of questions. Kinda like the issue related to truss heels I think you brought up - and then furthered into why or how Chief thought it best not to measure a heal the way every other truss company does. This tends to happen when there isn't a solid resource the developers can use to ask builders, designers, or architects how something should work....instead they do it and hope its right. It sure seems like chief doesn’t actually have people that understand real world construction standards... I 100% agree on truss heel.. Mitek the largest plate manufacturer for engineering plates for trusses and every other truss fabricator specifies truss heel height from underside of sheathing to top plate... so why are we even talking about this? It is the accepted industry standard ... Why doesn’t chief know this? just like prior to x12 you could not set stringer width! I think ca needs to hire a construction person to advise them and not hope it is ok...or maybe listen to their users a bit more.. maybe both 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 10 hours ago, dskogg said: nk ca needs to hire a construction person to advise them and not hope it is ok...or maybe listen to their users a bit more.. maybe both Chief has had many construction people on staff over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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