Why is plan so slow?

[DRAWZILLA]

Scott & Perry,

 

I don't think it's the software.  Scott's model has about 250000 surfaces (180000 with out the doors) and that's a multiple of what is normally being processed by the GPU.  Revit or any other CAD program would have the same problem.  Revit might be a bit faster but it might even be slower.  The only way it would be faster is if it allows walls and other architectural objects to be blocked.

I don't know, but the very large plans I've seen in Revit came up very fast and once up worked as usual.

[Joe_Carrick]

Joe,  is that a serious question?  The last thing my client and I did before he left my office this morning was to count the number of storage units.  Yep,  we counted every last unit and then multiplied by the number of buildings.

Lot's of ways to do that without having all the units defined in 3D.  Delete all the buildings except the 2 on the left and see what the difference is in performance.  Then make a CAD Block of the typical interior units and delete all the extra interior walls and replace them with that Block replicated.  Now what is the performance?

 

It's been this way with CAD as long as I can remember.  The more data has to be processed by the GPU the slower it's going to be.

 

I don't know, but the very large plans I've seen in Revit came up very fast and once up worked as usual.

Probably because of the "families" they use - which are similar to Chief's Architectural Blocks.  You might also need to check the hardware specs for those Revit demos.

[hbyklaurel]

X8 seems to be unbearably slow.  cannot use most "quick" commands, and things like auto centering would be impossible.  I am doing seismic layouts with lots of CAD and a pdf on a layer.

 

anybody else?

 

Laurel

 

[Steven]

Hi Scott

I got this to work faster by placing each building on the next floor (7 Floors you my have answered your own question?)

[Joe_Carrick]

That makes sense and it also answers the question of how a 30 story building isn't a big deal.  Scott's problem is the number of walls on a floor.  Even one of his buildings has a lot of walls because the rooms are so small.  Multiply that by 6 or 7 and it's just more than the GPU can handle in a Plan View.

[Joe_Carrick]

X8 seems to be unbearably slow.  cannot use most "quick" commands, and things like auto centering would be impossible.  I am doing seismic layouts with lots of CAD and a pdf on a layer.

 

anybody else?

 

Laurel

You should probably start another thread and post the plan.

[Brad_M]

To improve draw times in this plan, try turning off the living area label through the plan defaults dialog. You can also get a decent speed up by removing the concrete wall fill.

 

Please report all performance issues through the Online Support Center: https://support.chiefarchitect.com.

[OkcDesigner]

Well my little machine was slower than slow as well.

[Chopsaw]

Scott, I went back and turned off the wall fill again and noticed a very minor improvement, but when I turned off the "LIVING AREA" label  WOW !!!!!!!   what an improvement.  All the more reason to get that label fixed Brad.  You may find that the plan is slow but workable now and maybe try Perry's idea of turning off the door layer when you don't need it.  I sometimes wonder why the plan is still slow when you are zoomed in and only looking a few things, why does Chief have to concentrate so hard on the whole plan?  Everyone else had great ideas as well but some are beyond my present comprehension.

[dshall]

Scott, I went back and turned off the wall fill again and noticed a very minor improvement, but when I turned off the "LIVING AREA" label  WOW !!!!!!!   what an improvement.  All the more reason to get that label fixed Brad.  You may find that the plan is slow but workable now and maybe try Perry's idea of turning off the door layer when you don't need it.  I sometimes wonder why the plan is still slow when you are zoomed in and only looking a few things, why does Chief have to concentrate so hard on the whole plan?  Everyone else had great ideas as well but some are beyond my present comprehension.

Holy kamoly, I can't wait to get back to office to check this out. I meet again with my client at 6 AM , he will be excited to see the speed improvement.

[dshall]

To improve draw times in this plan, try turning off the living area label through the plan defaults dialog. You can also get a decent speed up by removing the concrete wall fill.

 

Please report all performance issues through the Online Support Center: https://support.chiefarchitect.com.

I considered the concrete fill, but I never got around to trying it. The living area I would of never guessed. Thanks Brad.

[johnny]

This thread is exactly why we need instancing.  In commercial its a big deal.

[BrownTiger]

To improve draw times in this plan, try turning off the living area label through the plan defaults dialog. You can also get a decent speed up by removing the concrete wall fill.

 

Please report all performance issues through the Online Support Center: https://support.chiefarchitect.com.

 

It appears that  living area label  is been constantly recomputed, when no changes no wall changes.

 

What I also noticed is that the rendering time does not depends on the viewport size. Most software will not consider rendering/computing a group of polygons [not just per polygon test but for a large group] if there is no chance of them been displayed. So for 420' x 420' plan should be divided by metagrid 20x20, when section 13-14vert 16-20horiz are displayed no reason to render any groups or consider any large groups in 1-10 vert 1-14 horiz. 

[dshall]

...., but when I turned off the "LIVING AREA" label  WOW !!!!!!!   what an improvement......

 

I tried this,  not much improvement for me.  I wish I could turn off the calculation of the rooms.  I think the program is still working to figure out the areas which is slowing the program down.  

 

I think I need to NOT INCLUDE ROOM IN LIVING AREA for all rooms.  Now if I only knew how to select all 1000 rooms at one time.

[hbyklaurel]

thanks for this will research.

[Alaskan_Son]

I tried this, not much improvement for me. I wish I could turn off the calculation of the rooms. I think the program is still working to figure out the areas which is slowing the program down.

I think I need to NOT INCLUDE ROOM IN LIVING AREA for all rooms. Now if I only knew how to select all 1000 rooms at one time.

Are you turning off the living area label via Default Settings>Plan?

[dshall]

Are you turning off the living area label via Default Settings>Plan?

 

Yes, 

[Richard_Morrison]

Holy kamoly, I can't wait to get back to office to check this out. I meet again with my client at 6 AM , he will be excited to see the speed improvement.

6 AM client meeting?!

[Dermot]

There are probably going to be lots of performance problems with this kind of plan. The living area calculations are just the most obvious one that affects how long it takes to draw the plan view. You will likely find other problems the more you work on it.

 

This is not what I would consider a complicated plan but it is certainly not a typical plan either. This plan has over 1100 separate walls and 1100 separate rooms on a single floor. The bottom line is that Chief was not setup to handle this situation in the most efficient way. We have lots of internal algorithms that are based on the number of walls and rooms so the higher these numbers get the bigger slow downs you will see.

 

Here are my comments and suggestions:

 

1. First, and I really can't emphasize this enough, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS REPORT PROBLEMS LIKE THIS TO TECHNICAL SUPPORT. We can't make Chief handle these situations better if people don't report them to us. I would expect someone who is a long time alpha/beta tester to already know this.

 

2. I don't recommend trying to work with all 7 buildings in a single plan file. You will be able to work far more efficiently if you create several plan files with only one unique building in them. You can then create a master plan file for your site where you import the buildings as symbols. This is usually the best solution if you are ever trying to work with multiple buildings that results in a very large model (like when doing a sub-division). If you do this, you can proably ignore all of the rest of my suggestions that follow.

 

3. Turning off living area in your Plan Defaults will significantly speed up plan view drawing. Turning off the concrete fill pattern for your walls will speed it up some more.

 

4. Turning off include in living area for every room can be done very easily with the Match Properties tool. I doubt that this will result in any improvements if you have already turned off living area in plan defaults.

 

5. Turning off all automatic rebuilds will probably allow you to work more efficiently. Things like Rebuild Walls/Floors/Ceilings are normally done every time you change a wall or room setting and given the number of walls and rooms this is probably going to be an issue. Turning off other auto rebuilds for things like roofs and framing could also have a huge impact when working on large plans.

 

6. I would avoid trying to do lots of work while in a camera view or with any camera views actually open. Rebuilding the 3D data might also be a slow process.

 

7. Zooming in on a particular part of the model won't help much. If you make a change to a room or wall, it doesn't matter if most of your other walls and rooms are not on the screen. The program still has to update everything to keep the model correct.

 

8. You might be able to work more efficiently if you make all of your interior walls "no room definition". This will have various side effects but they might not interfere with what you want.

[Joe_Carrick]

Hi Dermot,

 

Your #2 is the same as my suggestion primary suggestion.

 

I also advocate minimizing the number of walls and rooms by just doing the typical/unique rooms and then using CAD to replicate the typical rooms.  This can be done by creating the room polylines, blocking them and replicating the block.  It could also be cone by using "CAD Detail from View".  Either method would provide a Plan View representation without actually having very many walls or rooms.

 

Scott was also concerned about room count.  This could be accommodated by using a "Plan Note Schedule" with "Group Similar Objects" checked and placing the note symbol in each room.  Those can be blocked with the room polylines and when replicated the totals of all rooms would appear in the "Plan Notes Schedule - Qty Column".

[glennw]

IMHO, FWIW, I would do what Joe is suggesting and draw all the internal walls using cad, or cad blocks, etc.

Balancing all the suggestions and problems I have seen with the plan, I believe it is the best way to proceed.

I am not a fan of having multiple plans and bringing them together using symbols - never have been.

 

I just tried deleting all the internal walls and the plan flies - no slowness at all - instant 3D view, instant editing, etc.

The advantages of doing it this way would far outweigh any disadvantages caused by doing the internals in cad.

[Richard_Morrison]

I think it is worth considering whether you are using the right tool for a project like this. There is no question that there are workarounds, as mentioned above. However, just for grins, I exported the plan to ArchiCAD 19, and redrew it completely in 3D, with all buildings on the same floor, and added a bunch of internal doors and roofs, and even made the exterior walls brick. (This took maybe 5 minutes.) Zooms and pans and 3D views were virtually instantaneous in all views. Elevations with full brick hatching and shadows took maybe a couple seconds the first time, but with the background processing that ArchiCAD has, was instantaneous subsequently, too. At some point, you need to toss the hammer and move to a nail gun. This is not meant to denigrate Chief, but just to say that it probably is not the best software for all project types.