Chief Architect Software Licensing Changes Beginning January 10, 2023

[HumbleChief]

Pretty sure we should not be surprised that CA is going to a subscription model versus one time purchase (with its associated SSA renewals) as this is really the only way for modern software companies to stay in business. The phenomenon is clearly illustrated by posts in this thread alluding to users who are still using older versions with no intention of upgrading and most importantly no future income for CA from those users. Subscriptions, as distasteful as they can be, are the only modern solution to modern software business models.

 

I see a few comparisons to the cost of Revit, or ACAD and Archicad but the comparisons are not comparing apples to apples IMO. If Revit et al is a better fit for your business model then the price is not important and becomes a line item in your cost of doing business. If Chief fits your business model then the same applies. And that's the big question. Does either the SSA or the new subscription model fit your business model?

 

Do you design 250 homes a year like Joshua above? In that case the cost of CA (or any competitor) is no more than $10 - $15 per house (depending on number of licenses of course) and can be absorbed easily. One or 2 houses a year then the equation changes but any of the CAD design software should not place a burden cost-wise on a well itemized business model.

 

Don't have enough money set aside when SSA comes up for renewal? Why not? Can't afford the subscription model? Why not? Those costs should be anticipated, built into the business model, and paid with funds set aside for just that purpose.

 

None of that makes software subscriptions good or bad but they are a reality in todays world and have to be accounted for when costing design jobs.

[Crusader103]

55 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

 

Do you design 250 homes a year like Joshua above? In that case the cost of CA (or any competitor) is no more than $10 - $15 per house (depending on number of licenses of course) and can be absorbed easily. One or 2 houses a year then the equation changes but any of the CAD design software should not place a burden cost-wise on a well itemized business model.

 

 

For me, it's certainly absorbed on a cost per plan basis. But one would be a fool to not consider every dollar and I do. Just because a business is successful does not mean we shouldn't pay attention to pennies or compare cost vs. value.

 

Right now, Chief is and hopefully continues to be the best cost vs. value option for my business. I don't want to change. But just as I consider the cost of paper, ink, and other operational costs, I'll continue to evaluate on a daily basis.

 

But I'm not just talking about a guy like me that does 250 houses a year though. I'm sure the heads at Chief Architect know their business model better than I do. But I remember when starting out, if the first-year difference was double between the two products I was evaluating, I'd certainly have gone with the lower initial investment because the money wasn't yet there to act long-term. Many of those customers who were like me are going to go elsewhere because they can't look more than 12 months down the road on a business that's just getting started. CA will likely end up making a little more money on their committed users but they're likely to see a decrease in their initial purchases. Maybe that's their plan and it's a good one. I don't know. I'm not the CEO.

[HumbleChief]

23 minutes ago, Crusader103 said:

For me, it's certainly absorbed on a cost per plan basis. But one would be a fool to not consider every dollar and I do. Just because a business is successful does not mean we shouldn't pay attention to pennies or compare cost vs. value.

This what I was trying to convey in my post above, perhaps poorly.

[Alaskan_Son]

On 12/3/2022 at 2:38 PM, Richard_Morrison said:

Chief annual subscription: $1995

Archicad (full) annual subscription: $2545

Softplan (12 mos.): $1140

 

I suspect that people will be exploring their options more carefully.

 

I’m pretty heavily invested in Chief at this point but if I was just getting started, I would almost certainly be looking at either Softplan ot Archicad.  Both of which offer an outright purchase option, one of which is notably more robust in quite a few ways, and one of which is notably cheaper.  Chief has it’s own unique strengths, but I’m not sure any of that would matter since the subscription only model is a deal breaker for me and so I wouldn’t be digging that deep.

[Crusader103]

2 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

This what I was trying to convey in my post above, perhaps poorly.

 

Not at all. Enjoy your insight.

 

I don't know about others, but I feel like I'm getting hit from all sides as of late. Software increases, printing, ink, storage, monthly website fees, everything. Some builders are reducing square footage on their spec homes and we charge by the foot. I've had builders ask to pay less for plans because their costs are going up or their homes are taking longer to sell. I say no of course, but that's all to say that I'm seeing indications and I think others are as well.

 

My company has been very blessed with the amount of work we receive and even if hard times hit, we'll be fine.

 

I just don't know how others are doing it and when I see companies like CA going to a different model, it makes me wonder. 

[SHCanada2]

I think if I was starting out I'd be hesitant to do subscription. I'll gladly pay the upfront fee plus $585 a year as long as the improvements from version to version are making me more efficient.  And for me from X12 to X13 to X14, they were definitely there. I do mostly basement developments (where half the time full elevations are required), same form factor plans, some small additions, rarely a new custom house. So my business is more repetitive work, so it is all about the efficiency, and I would find it difficult to believe a different software could do it much quicker ( there are a few thing I have suggested which could probably take another 10% off). I mean literally, I do basements in 2-3 hours, elevations in 3 hours, and as builts with elevations in 8 hours, But most of my clients are a variation of a rectangle and about half my work is for regulatory purposes or for sales purposes so the detail does not always have to be there. So I am fortunate I suppose in that I do not do a lot of finicky time consuming work where I see a lot of the workarounds/know how must be applied.

 

I'd be a little worried the new customer signups might be less with this new model, which will then trigger the SSA to increase in order to achieve the same revenue. but we will see. In the meantime, it does not impact myself other than when I want to sell my license it will be worth less as it will be tombstoned on whatever version I end up at...but I can live with that as long as the product keeps making me more efficient on every version

 

[lbuttery]

I remember when my partner and I bought Chief 9.5 in 2006 and thinking the software was wonderful

 

We started a business and the plans and 3D were impressive to behold

 

I wonder if there is other software out there now that would be equivalent to 9.5 then ?

 

We get enamored with all the fancy do-dad features that have come since then

but do we really need them ?

 

so glad I am retired ...

 

Lew

 

[Chrisb222]

For me personally (small design/builder 5-6 houses/yr) I will probably eventually drop out of SSA. Partly due to this change, but also because I very rarely use it for support, and I'm looking to move 3D client models to TM. SSA was always required because I need to show clients 3D models, but with alternatives for that it becomes less necessary. I have only called tech support two times in eight years, and those were both in the last month and had to do with a video driver issue on an older laptop, and a Mac OS issue.

 

I started with X7 and skipped a couple of versions just because I don't use the program daily, and can get by with any version. I enjoy the new features, many of which I specifically asked for, but I never had any problems getting permitted with X7. At this point X14 is robust enough to keep me happy indefinitely. I'm going to buy SSA for X15 just because that's my habit and the money isn't an issue, but purchase of future upgrades will be based solely on there being enough new features coming to justify the cost.

 

My concern is - will my perpetual license remain "perpetual" forever, or will they change that policy too, down the road? They will have that right, just like they eliminated dongles at one point and required everyone to log in their software over the internet. Nowhere in the FAQs does it say the perpetual license will be permanent forever. The language leaves them a backdoor to pull even legacy licenses that are expired, if they choose.

 

From the FAQ:

I already own a perpetual legacy license. Will the license I already own on or before January 9, 2023 expire in the future?

No, any existing perpetual legacy license will not expire and will continue to function.

 

 

Hmm, they left off the word "forever" at the end of that answer. How long, exactly, will the legacy licenses "continue to function"? We'll see. Hope I didn't just put a target on my back lol.

[madcowscarnival]

This is my concern as well.  I do not use Chief regularly, nor do I even regularly design houses, it is essentially a hobby software.  It is very useful when I do need it though (perhaps not enough to justify costs over the years, but worth it from an investment buy).  If I buy outright the last version available, X14, how long will I be able to use it.  How long will I be able to do license management to switch between computers (office and house).  Will my other perpetual licenses work (not really an issue, but I did pay in full for them)?  My biggest concern is Chief will run at this with a full head of steam and fairly soon, try to force everyone on to a rental agreement be simply no longer allowing users to access perpetual licenses.

 

Can anyone from Chief chime in, or anyone point to something other than what Chrisb222 copied from FAQ above?

[SHCanada2]

1 hour ago, Chrisb222 said:

Hmm, they left off the word "forever" at the end of that answer. How long, exactly, will the legacy licenses "continue to function"?

what might happen is the O/S will expire you. your computer will die, you will need to buy a new one, with a new O/S and it will not work with your X? version

[SHCanada2]

1 minute ago, madcowscarnival said:

My biggest concern is Chief will run at this with a full head of steam and fairly soon, try to force everyone on to a rental agreement be simply no longer allowing users to access perpetual licenses.

Perpetual SLA (software license agreements) usually stipulate you have the right to use and there typically is no expiry in the SLA. It is the "contract"  between the vendor and end customer. So he answer to the question should be in the SLA

[HumbleChief]

11 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

I think if I was starting out I'd be hesitant to do subscription.

This IMO is a very important point. The good folks at CA have not taken this step lightly and without a great amount of thought to the consequences of their decision but to a new user the choice is not as easy as it is for me or other long time users to continue with our SSA.

 

To the new user. "Why Chief?" "Why not (insert other CAD here)?" Is Chief compelling enough for first time users who will have little to no understanding of its power and focus on smaller residential construction? "Oh wait, I can buy Revit, or SoftPlan or... for the same price and this review or that review says they are better than Chief." So again, why Chief for the first time user/buyer?

 

Like as has been stated Chief has not taken this step lightly and must have asked themselves the same questions but if it were me, and I was just beginning and knew little to nothing about design software and how it might work in my business I would look elsewhere with the new subscription pricing model. Would I choose Chief after that look elsewhere? Dunno. Really don't know.

[CajunChip]

so if I sell my company and January and I want to keep your software can I do that and stay on the present system of SSA?

[HumbleChief]

51 minutes ago, CajunChip said:

so if I sell my company and January and I want to keep your software can I do that and stay on the present system of SSA?

I'm pretty sure the policy does not consider whether or not someone sells their company.

[DRAWZILLA]

So, if you already own Chief, nothing changes. I don't see any problems at this point until chief changes that. New chief sales just have to suck it up and charge accordingly. 

[Bondbuilding]

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

This IMO is a very important point. The good folks at CA have not taken this step lightly and without a great amount of thought to the consequences of their decision but to a new user the choice is not as easy as it is for me or other long time users to continue with our SSA.

 

To the new user. "Why Chief?" "Why not (insert other CAD here)?" Is Chief compelling enough for first time users who will have little to no understanding of its power and focus on smaller residential construction? "Oh wait, I can buy Revit, or SoftPlan or... for the same price and this review or that review says they are better than Chief." So again, why Chief for the first time user/buyer?

 

Like as has been stated Chief has not taken this step lightly and must have asked themselves the same questions but if it were me, and I was just beginning and knew little to nothing about design software and how it might work in my business I would look elsewhere with the new subscription pricing model. Would I choose Chief after that look elsewhere? Dunno. Really don't know.

Agree.....At some point your owned copy will not be supported ...then what?  Is the work around that you own it and pay for SSA forever? That’s definitely better than $200 a month forever!....assuming that SSA is honored to legacy users, and you don’t screwup and let it lapse. 

I have some bookkeeping software that went to subscription, and the old "owned copy" quit working on the new Mac operating system.  You might get shut out at some point and be forced to go to the subscription at some point.  So, you have created this huge portfolio of plans that only work in a Chief controlled software rental environment.  (FYI...I run the bookkeeping software on a non-upgraded separate machine)

I am using x7 ...which I guess some of you would think is a dinosaur (already unsupported) Let me insert here, that I have been using Chief so far back that every floor was a separate file. Decades. I haven't recently upgraded because the upgrades don't really enhance the experience for what I do with it. I don't use a lot of the new features.  I have upgraded 4-5 times over the years.  I have thought about upgrading recently to X14 weighed against how much better it is, and how much I use the software. But again, my brothers Home Designer Pro is not significantly different than X7 other than he is missing a lot of the Layout and toggle display items features. Some of the HD Pro 3D is better too.

I have a 20-year-old hydrostatic drive Kubota tractor. Hydrostatic drive was the last great tech leap in tractors.  It still moves dirt and grades things.  New ones are better, but they generally move dirt and grade things like my old one... therefore I don't buy a new one.

I guess Chief is at a tipping point where there is no practical or planned obsolescence …or huge leap of improvement to an existing user.  Evidently the revenue solution from someone from up top ... is that now you need to pay $200 a month forever!   It's their company and they can do what they want. I think if I was a new user, I would be very scared about who I get in bed with.  Who knows though…maybe one day Chief can get a brain implant and you can think the drawing on the screen!   

None of these comments are meant as an insult to anyone at Chief.  It really is, and was, a groundbreaking software 25 years ago. Some people a hell of a lot smarter than me developed it. It's a two-way street though. Any business needs to evaluate their expenses for tools and equipment....and the right to repair, the relationship...and whether they need a new tractor and can still get parts for the old one.  My knee jerk is that $200 a month forever is high for marginal improvements to a legacy user.  That's not an insult, it just is what it is. I'm sure t's hard to understand your legacy customers perspective from the board room, when the other guy spends the majority of his time out in a field trying to get guys to frame something correctly and listening to the neighbors complain about trash in their yard.  I'd be curious what percentage of customers...new or old... are this borderline user that need something a little better than HD Pro but not quite X14.

 

New Coke came out in 1985.

[ChiefArchitect]

@Bondbuilding, there will be two purchase options for new licenses beginning January 10.

 

Billed Monthly: $199 per month (use as needed and cancel anytime)

Billed Annually: $1,995 ($166.25 per month) - there is a 16% savings by paying for the year upfront.

[OkcDesigner]

WOW!!!!!!!  WHAT A PUNCH IN THE GUT!!!!!!!

 

I feel like I just watched the client in front of me get clobbered and I am next in line, when new sales drop next year and our SSA goes up 300% to cover the losses..............................

 

My Revit LT suite is only $605.00 a year. And the only reason I have it, I took a job with another Designer that required me to learn it. The odds of switching him to a better program just went bye, bye.

 

Full Revit is only $2,675.00 a year!!!! I get that Chief is way better, however the top of the line (in others eyes) is only $700.00 more after January!

 

WOW.......................

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by OkcDesigner

[Renerabbitt]

@ChiefArchitect
What about Home Designer users that are wanting to upgrade next year...do they pay legacy ssa or is that considered a new plan?

[OkcDesigner]

5 hours ago, DRAWZILLA said:

So, if you already own Chief, nothing changes. I don't see any problems at this point until chief changes that. New chief sales just have to suck it up and charge accordingly. 

Do you understand we just saw the new customer get slaughtered in front of us and we will not be slaughtered next. 

Tell that to the frog they are boiling.

[ChiefArchitect]

Hello Rene,

 

On Jan. 10 and beyond, you can upgrade from Home Designer to Chief Architect and receive an upgrade rebate (instant discount) off of the first-year annual subscription of Chief Architect.

 

 

[DavidJames]

40 minutes ago, OkcDesigner said:

Full Revit is only $2,675.00 a year!!!! I get that Chief is way better, however the top of the line (in others eyes) is only $700.00 more after January!

 

WOW.......................

 

 

Depending on what your needs are and what you’re using Chief for, I would argue that Revit is a far better piece of software with FAR less headaches (if any). 
 

In 2019, I stopped using Chief for 99% of my projects and moved over to Revit. I wish I had made the jump sooner to be honest as I couldn’t be happier. 
 

The only projects that I’ll use Chief for are interior renderings as there’s nothing better and quicker on the market when it comes to building interior scenes (which I ultimately export to Lumion). 
 

With this new pricing structure, The potential new user will think long and hard about where they are going to invest their money… CA or the industry standard. In a lot of cases, I think they will choose the latter.

 

That being said, I would imagine that any legacy users that were thinking about opting out of SSA this year are no longer even entertaining that idea and probably won’t for years to come. 

[EOBArch]

I believe growing the user base is more important. The annual price is very close to Industry Leaders Revit and Archicad. Revit LT renewal is actually less. As much as I dislike Autodesk's touch of death to a once promising Revit platform and ArchiCADs default to metric and European standards. Chief Architect has it's short comings too. In addition to the small user base. Dispite the name Chief Architect it really does not adhere to Architectural Office Standards out of the box. Please refer to US National CAD Standards. The defauls in rendering are cold and lack vibrancy. Areas to improve are tools for structural engineers, HVAC Manual J and duct sizing. An opportunity for built in wall, floor, roofs details for new code walls. In short I am not excited to see the direction Chief is going when such gaps exist in the current product.

[WesternDesign]

What if any discounts for additional seats.  If I understand the Autodesk model, there is no discount on additional seats. 

[Kbird1]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:58 PM, WesternDesign said:

What if any discounts for additional seats.  If I understand the Autodesk model, there is no discount on additional seats. 

 

The FAQ says that Additional licenses will be $1295/yr after Jan.10th. whether new OR on existing SSA perpetual Licences ( though it sounds like the SSA PL additional copy is still yearly Sub. not Perpetual )