Joe_Carrick Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So now framing members have Labels on the "Framing Labels" layer. It's a nice addition but there are a couple of problems that I've found so far: 1. The Label has a solid fill and in the case of a post obscures the view of the post until you move the Label. 2. The "y" offset seems to be reversed in direction. ie: 12" actually moves the label down instead of up on the plan. 3. There's no way to set the default offsets and angles of the labels for various framing members. 4. The "Automatic Label" seems to be blank in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 OK, so I created a new "Framing Label Text Style" with transparent fill. That solved part of the problem. but we still need a default position and angle for each framing member type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermot Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You can already set the label defaults for posts and beams. If you would like to set them for other framing types, you should submit a feature request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Dermot, Normally, a post is annotated as 4x4, 4x6, 4x8, 6x6, 6x8, etc. The annotation of 6x4 is not normal, regardless of the x/y orientation of the dimensions. IOW, if dim 1 is 5.5 and dim 2 is 3.5 it should still be annotated as 4x6 Post, not 6x4 Post. This is standard annotation of lumber and Chief should recognize that. Also, if I set the Label default to 45 degrees and then rotate the post 90 degrees the label should not rotate. We should be able to rotate the Post independent of the Label. The current implementation is not correct. It's almost universal practice to place post labels just to the right and above at a 45 degree angle towards the upper right. The Default editing of the Labels for Posts and Beams would be much better if it was contained in the main dialog for those items rather than having to select "Edit Post Defaults", ........ Having a secondary dialog just makes for more clicks - one to open the edit dialog and another to close that dialog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Downunder Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So now framing members have Labels on the "Framing Labels" layer. It's a nice addition but there are a couple of problems that I've found so far: I like this feature. It does need tweaking. A roof with rafters and hips will show the label centred on the rafter. I use a macro for length. All labels have to be moved manually to just outside the gutter. Would be nice to have a default offset position for this. This feature labels Ridge, Hips, Valley and by using roof blocking I can place under-purlins and tile battens. All labels show name and length. good for the take off. Chief is making steady progress. Pleas hurry with the tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 The following tweaks should be made before the final release of X7: 1. Framing Layer Set should have "Framing Labels" displayed by default. 2. The Automatic Label should be displayed in the dbx when "Automatic Labels" is selected. 3. The "y" offset needs to be reversed (- should move the label down, not up and + should move the label up, not down.) 4. Framing member Labels should always begin with the smaller of the 2 dimensions (standard nomenclature) 5. Default position and angle for Post labels should be up and to the right. (just a change to the template plans) 6. Default position for Beams, Joists, etc should be above the member, not centered. (just a change to the template plans) 7. Rotating a Post in Plan should not rotate the Label from the angle specified. 8. Add "Framing Label Text Styles" for each member type (posts, beams, etc.) 9. When using the macro for length, there should be an option to use the major or minor units (ft or inches) without having to resort to a user defined macro to format. If possible, add Labels for Rafters, Ceiling Joists, Floor Joists, Roof Trusses, etc. All of these should be as a single Label for a set of framing members (such as a Roof or Ceiling Plane, etc and should include the spacing) and would normally be oriented perpendicular to the direction of the framing members, centered both directions. As I said before, this is a really nice addition (one of the few Labels that can might not need multi-line display) but the above items really need to be addressed to avoid a lot of complaints. Don't let this feature be one that adds to the "fix it list" in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 4. Framing member Labels should always begin with the smaller of the 2 dimensions (standard nomenclature) My engineer would disagree with you, for posts. He is always having me change the 4x6 to 6x4 depending on the orientation of the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 My engineer would disagree with you, for posts. He is always having me change the 4x6 to 6x4 depending on the orientation of the post. Perhaps, but if you go to a lumber yard and order a 6x4 they'll look at you like you're an idiot. Besides, if you look at the Plan from the side then it would be what? Is your engineer basing that on North/South or Plan orientation? The standard nomenclature is what I and my engineers have always used. Maybe you need to get another engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 It really doesn't matter to me what he wants so I just go with the flow, on what he wants the framing plan to show. I've used him for almost 25 years now and I have all the details he wants and at this point would hate to change and have to re-vamp my system. Orientation on the plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raltd9245 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You can already set the label defaults for posts and beams. If you would like to set them for other framing types, you should submit a feature request. Dermot you guys should pole the power users before you introduce a feature like this. You seem to always get about 75% right when you don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I agree with Perry. Down here in Oz it is common practice to have the larger dimension first. ie, a 200x75 beam would always be shown like that never 75x200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Winsor Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Yeah, but you guys are all screwed up down there to start with. You can't even get the water to go down your drains in the right direction. I'm with Joe on this one, smaller dimension first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_on_Cape Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Dermot, Normally, a post is annotated as 4x4, 4x6, 4x8, 6x6, 6x8, etc. The annotation of 6x4 is not normal, regardless of the x/y orientation of the dimensions. IOW, if dim 1 is 5.5 and dim 2 is 3.5 it should still be annotated as 4x6 Post, not 6x4 Post. This is standard annotation of lumber and Chief should recognize that. ..... I think (don't know for sure) that engineers refer to the braced side number first........... See this link for example..... https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/2983-column-load-chart/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_NY61 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I agree with Joe 110%, and the addressed issues he specified shouldn't be submitted as "a feature request"... all this features should be included in there already because the concerns he raised is industry standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 This only goes to show us that people will do it both ways, right or wrong really doesn't apply, so give us both ways, which I believe is what Chief did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 This only goes to show us that people will do it both ways, right or wrong really doesn't apply, so give us both ways, which I believe is what Chief did. Perry, I will agree to having an option to display the size either way. But Chief didn't give us that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Perry, I will agree to having an option to display the size either way. But Chief didn't give us that option. Yep, that's the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermot Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Framing labels will always display "width X depth" for beams or "width1 X width2" for posts. You can specify a different order by using a custom label (with or without using the available label macros). If you would like Chief to work differently, then please remember that the Q&A forum is not an appropriate place to request features or report bugs. Currently, we have not received any of either so you should not expect any additional changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlackore Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Framing labels will always display "width X depth" for beams or "width1 X width2" for posts. You can specify a different order by using a custom label (with or without using the available label macros). If you would like Chief to work differently, then please remember that the Q&A forum is not an appropriate place to request features or report bugs. Currently, we have not received any of either so you should not expect any additional changes. Dermot - so let me get this straight: are you just going to forget/ignore everything in this post, just because it's in the "wrong" forum? Now that's customer service! I think I'd feel differently if our Suggestion forum posts got regular responses from someone on the CA team - as it stands now we get an occasional response from Doug, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Robert: CA has been stating for years that to be logged an issue needs to be reported in the suggestions forum or as a support ticket CA tries to follow the Q&A section but they have stated that they can't guarantee they will I agree that even if you file it as a suggestion it may be a long time coming but at least it's on the list ..... Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermot Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Robert, The purpose of this forum is to allow users to post questions about and share knowledge about the Chief Architect family of software products. ... Please do not use this forum to try and report bugs to us. Although we have moderators that monitor this forum who occasionally will answer questions, they do not look for reports of bugs. You should always contact our Technical Support department directly if you think that you have found a bug in one of our products. For more info, please reread Dan's sticky post:https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/21-forum-guidelines/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlackore Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Robert: CA has been stating for years that to be logged an issue needs to be reported in the suggestions forum or as a support ticket CA tries to follow the Q&A section but they have stated that they can't guarantee they will I agree that even if you file it as a suggestion it may be a long time coming but at least it's on the list ..... Lew Lew, Conceptually I understand CA's stance (and I think as a whole the CA user community does a pretty darn good job of conforming to the "official" means of communication); but if a moderator or CA employee (especially Dermot) is going to chime in on a post - here or in the Suggestions Forum - then I think it's reasonable for them to acknowledge the issue in an "official" capacity. I appreciate Dermot's explanation of how the framing labels work, but if we ignored a client just because they wrote a note on a napkin instead of sending a certified letter, we wouldn't be in business very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Perhaps, but if you go to a lumber yard and order a 6x4 they'll look at you like you're an idiot. Besides, if you look at the Plan from the side then it would be what? Is your engineer basing that on North/South or Plan orientation? The standard nomenclature is what I and my engineers have always used. Maybe you need to get another engineer. I agree with this. Trying to communicate the orientation of a post through the use of "what number comes first" doesn't seem logical since most other "top down" framing members are set to small number first, larger second. Its not as if a 2x6 on one side of a house becomes a 6x2 on the other. Id want framers to use the drawing to see the orientation. Maybe I am missing a key point to this. I always notate small number first, larger second for posts, since they are most often vertical framing members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Downunder Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I agree with Perry. Down here in Oz it is common practice to have the larger dimension first. ie, a 200x75 beam would always be shown like that never 75x200. I agree with every one that we should choose. I would choose with Glen. This is how our framing timber charts read. This is a multinational product and should cater for different convention for different countries. Using macros in labels does allow that to a degree. On the question of submitting requests- it would be convenient to have a button that would elevate the topic to a feature request. Perhaps the owner of the topic is the one to elevate it to a feature request and it show on the post that this topic has been elevated. So we could have our conversation and not have to take the conversation to a new forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermot Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I would like to clarify some of my earlier comments since I am not sure everyone understood what I was saying or why. Please do not assume that any discussions that you might have on this forum are somehow going to result in a bug report or feature request getting logged into our internal database. Chieftalk is not a part of our Technical Support or Customer Service departments. It's a free web forum we provide as an extra benefit that is designed primarily for our customers to communicate with each other. It is not the best way to communicate with us. Contacting Technical Support or Customer Service directly (by phone, email, or through our online support center) is always going to be the best way to communicate with us. We only moderate this forum on a limited basis to make sure it is not taken over by spam or to remove any other posts that are not suitable for a company sponsored forum. You do not need SSA to participate in this forum. SSA provides many other benefits including priority technical support and access to our large collection of training videos. If you have SSA, you should take full advantage of these services. Posting something on Chieftalk does not make you a customer of Chief Architect. This forum is currently open to anyone, including people that have never actually purchased one of our products. Chief Architect employees only participate on this forum on a strictly volunteer basis. As part of the engineering team, I have no special customer service skills or training. I occasionally read posts that look interesting to me. On rare occasions, I will post information that I think might be helpful to others. I sometimes read Chieftalk when I am at home or when I have limited time and access to our internal databases. I will not log bug reports or feature requests for you. I will be more then happy to explain to you how you can do this yourself. If you decide not to, I can only assume that the issue was really not that important to you. I would like to thank Joe for contacting our support department and making sure his feedback was logged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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