SilverAstronauts

Can I have two different room "versions" and switch between them?

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I have a few different ideas for a room (a kitchen), and I like all of them equally, so I was wondering if there was a way that I could save different versions of a room and switch between them? Not just different materials, but actual different layouts. 

 

Sure, I could create a new save file... but... there's gotta be a better way right? 

 

EDIT: On X11 that is.

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23 minutes ago, solver said:

Similar question asked within the last week. A bit of searching should reveal it.

10 minutes of searching did not... in fact... reveal it.

 

Want to be helpful and point me in the right direction? Maybe with anything you remember of the thread? Title words? User? Anything I could use to search for it?

 

Or, if you remember the thread... the final answer... perhaps? 

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48 minutes ago, SilverAstronauts said:

Sure, I could create a new save file... but... there's gotta be a better way right?

 

Despite the fact that there are various workarounds, in my opinion, this actually IS the best way. 

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Just create new “room” types.  Such as: Kitchen-1, Kitchen-2, Kitchen-3...

 

assign different molding and flooring in each type...then just rename the room to switch styles.  
 

ooops...I didn’t see you wanted to change layouts.  My solution won’t help you.  
 

You could use “plan views” and draw the plan variations off to the side of your main plan...that’s all I can think of at the moment.  

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6 hours ago, SilverAstronauts said:

Sure, I could create a new save file... but... there's gotta be a better way right? 

 

Not really. 

 

I purchased Chief mostly for remodelling my own home in stages and although you can get away with some minor changes and switch between views/layers it's all too common to get issues due to overlapping objects and Chief's room based approach.

 

These days I always save a base plan and then separate plans for each option.  In my case I sometimes update the base plan such as for all new windows, revised heating (moved radiators) and then re-create the options.   It's not as time consuming as it might seem.

 

As an aside:

My day job is software and one product I worked on had complex data and also needed a way for users to experiment with various options.  In the end we offered two approaches:

  • A managed serious of data sets somewhat akin to separate plan files/related data in Chief but with management of them as a whole set of variations with a known base.
  • A way to manually merge certain changes from one variation to another.

Over time most people ended up using the first option as the merge feature was very time consuming in practice. This was due to small changes in other data/.objects which meant the merge feature had to ask many annoying questions about how to handle certain issues otherwise the result had objects with broken connections or not as expected. Even with that some manual editing was always required. 

 

Ultimately it proved impossible to make the merge significantly quicker to use than copy and paste/ and manual editing hence why users went back to that after trying both, although the merge feature remained useful to highlight changes between versions.

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6 hours ago, SilverAstronauts said:

 

Want to be helpful and point me in the right direction?

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/24925-method-to-show-multiple-options-kitchens-or-other/

This isn't the thread where it was asked, just where I placed an answer. It's how I had been doing this since before I used Chief (easier in Chief) Thought of a bit of additional info that I'll add there.

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Really what everyone is saying regarding separate files is the best approach.  With Chief you can have a base file then saved options and you can do a reference file in a layout to show the options together or however you want it.  Don’t think about it as two files but rather different sections of the job just like the layout and plan files are two different files as well as all the referenced files you don’t really realize (until you backup save a job.)

 

 

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I'd add that using the project browser makes it all fast and simple, keep it open. 

There is also the option to use reference sets to other plans in 3D. It's better for exterior but still can be useful with interiors. 

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I have done this within a single plan but I don't attempt to have them overlaid on top of each other. I will just place say the 3 concepts side by side. Would only recommend this if the plan is not overly complicated, otherwise I have three separate plans and use the layout to consolidate these.

 

One other technique, say you are doing a kitchen, your could have 3 floors, each floor has a different version. Now when you move up and down a floor level your concept changes but remains in the same position. You could also use the floor reference display to show one floor level superimposed on the other.

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Would blocking and saving your different kitchen layouts into your user library work for you?

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1 hour ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

I will just place say the 3 concepts side by side.

 

This can work for basic designs like a Kitchen or Bathroom , you can then make a Saved Plan View with Zoom enabled for each Option.

 

there's a little more on it in this X10 Video , probably worth watching it fully, if you are not familiar with SPVs but the 3 option part is at about 10 mins.

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/2421/saved-plan-views.html

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For Interiors folks especially, It would be pretty cool if there was a way to make a 'block' of the basic plan, or alternatively what I can only best describe as a 3D reference... or using Acad terminology...  Xref.   That would allow just the basic model without all the interior stuff added, to be referenced into several different options, and any structural (wall, door, window) moves would automatically get applied to all instances.

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5 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

For Interiors folks especially, It would be pretty cool if there was a way to make a 'block' of the basic plan, or alternatively what I can only best describe as a 3D reference... or using Acad terminology...  Xref.   That would allow just the basic model without all the interior stuff added, to be referenced into several different options, and any structural (wall, door, window) moves would automatically get applied to all instances.

 

Is that what the new X12 Style Pallette tool does?

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/whats-new/

 

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18 minutes ago, parkwest said:

Is that what the new X12 Style Pallette tool does?

Ahaa!... well it appears that it achieves a similar result but in a different way.  It seems to me that it would work just about as well for most cases, only difference being you have to manually switch the palette each time... but perhaps having different plan views for each would allow you to have several different ones at the same time? 
Will be nice to check out when I can get my hands on X12 next month.

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2 hours ago, DzinEye said:

That would allow just the basic model without all the interior stuff added, to be referenced into several different options, and any structural (wall, door, window) moves would automatically get applied to all instances.

 

I would call this instancing, and yes, it would be great if Chief had some more true instancing capabilities.  I made a quick video a while back during a discussion we were having elsewhere...

 

I think the main problem with any BIM type CAM software is that for things like walls, windows, doors, floor systems, etc. where there are automated connection/interaction behaviors, that it would be nearly (if not) impossible to allow different instances to interact uniquely with each unique instance.  For at least simple non-parametric geometry though, it would be really nice if we had some more capabilities in this department.  Not sure how useful it would really be for this particular example, but it would be useful nonetheless. 

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2 hours ago, parkwest said:

Is that what the new X12 Style Pallette tool does?

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/whats-new/

Style pallet can change textures and object properties. It can't change layout.

 

2 hours ago, DzinEye said:

alternatively what I can only best describe as a 3D reference... or using Acad terminology...  Xref

You could use reference sets in both plan and in 3D. A structure, plan a layout, plan b layout...It only works for plans and perspectives in Standard view

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1 hour ago, DzinEye said:

Will be nice to check out when I can get my hands on X12 next month.

 

don't want to try the Beta?  should be in your digital Locker  ( assuming current SSA )

 

M.

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24 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I would call this instancing, and yes, it would be great if Chief had some more true instancing capabilities.

Wow, you really did a deep dive on that subject.   Very strange why the scale  changes in the text block instances...any idea why?
The text instancing ability (if it worked right) would be especially helpful.
 

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24 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

don't want to try the Beta?  should be in your digital Locker  ( assuming current SSA )

I'm on SSA by monthly basis, so not available to me quite yet

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8 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

The text instancing ability (if it worked right) would be especially helpful.

 

For this, simple text macros usually do the trick. 

 

8 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

Very strange why the scale  changes in the text block instances...any idea why?

The scale always changes with CAD blocks because each CAD block just retains it's original size.  You could technically "fix" this issue by simply grouping something like a much larger but empty text box with your desired text so that the size of the block was always controlled by the much larger borders.  This way, the affected area of the block would remain unchanged with any changes.

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20 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

I'm on SSA by monthly basis, so not available to me quite yet

 

Ahhhh Ok , now it makes sense , I think they require your SSA to be valid for 2 months min. past the anticipated Released date which Renters/monthly payers don't have....

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I've done this before by selecting EVERYTHING in the first room and assigning it to a seldom used Layer (such as Audio/Video).  Then I redraw the room and select everything again and assign it to another seldom used Layer.  Then I can toggle each layer on or off as needed.  Might be a goofy way of doing things, but it works.

 

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34 minutes ago, chevoldsmoyota said:

I've done this before by selecting EVERYTHING in the first room and assigning it to a seldom used Layer (such as Audio/Video).  Then I redraw the room and select everything again and assign it to another seldom used Layer.  Then I can toggle each layer on or off as needed.  Might be a goofy way of doing things, but it works. 

 

That particular method only sort of works, only for certain object types, only for limited scenarios, and it can be a huge pain even when it does work.  Examples:

  • Bumping and Pushing still picks up on hidden objects so this makes placing new cabinets, symbols, etc. a big pain.
  • Cabinet under even hidden countertops still think they have one already so they won't produce their own.  In addition, they won't give you the Generate Custom Countertop tool either.
  • Walls still connect to and/or override existing walls
  • Windows and doors still cannot properly coexist in the same 3D space and will still cut a hole in the wall even if that window or door layer is turned off in the other view
  • Automated moldings will not behave as expected in the various views as they still pick up on hidden objects in order for the program to work correctly

...and this is just a few of the issues to contend with. 

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