Chimney - How?

[SNestor]

Wondering how to construct a fireplace chimney. 

 

According to the CA help you can use the soffit tool and apply materials to it.  However, this would not "frame"...would it?  Is it typical to construct chimneys in this manner?

 

I have an outside chimney chase...3 walls.  The house is 2-story on a basement.  The basement extends under the 3 outside chimney chase walls.  The chimney is brick veneer.  The chimney needs to extend above the 2nd floor top plate maybe 8'-10'.  1st floor has 10' tall walls; 2nd floor 9' tall walls.  Floor system for both floors are I-Joist...14" deep.

 

I have drawn the walls for the chimney on the 1st and 2nd floors...but not sure how to go from there. 

 

I know...I need to post the plan.  I can't do this right now...I'm at my day job.  I will try to post (if I can figure out how) - although it will probably be tomorrow. 

 

If there is a thread or two somewhere that will help me please let me know. 

 

Thanks!

[CJSpud]

Go up into the attic and draw your walls there ... make a room and give it the desired ceiling height .... or draw the walls on the attic level (they should want to stay under the roof unless you make them do otherwise ... then in elevation views (backclipped) drag them up one at a time.  That should give you the framing.  Make you wall definition whatever it needs to be for materials.  You may need to use a PL solid for the cap.  Post your results when you get it figured out.  I got something similar I need to do with a plan soon.

[dshall]

.... or draw the walls on the attic level (they should want to stay under the roof unless you make them do otherwise ...

CAN'T HAVE A ROOM DEF ON ATTIC LEVE,  CREATE A NEW FLOOR

 

then in elevation views (backclipped) drag them up one at a time.  .....SILLY,  JUST  GIVE THE SPACE A ROOM DEFINITION AND CONTROL THE HIEGHTS VS THE CEILING HT.

This is a great question,  I have fussed with this on multiple occasions and for some reason it never works for me.  I usually  create the chimney out of a solid.  I know,  not a good solution,  I know it does not frame the walls......  i will give this another go,  it should not be too hard.

[CJSpud]

Scott:

 

I will have to experiment with your technique of adding an extra floor and not fussing with attic walls.  What I am wondering about regarding my suggestion is, if attic walls don't provide room definition, then there shouldn't be any 3rd floor framing to worry about.  I am going to go do a quick test and see how this might work.

[dshall]

Scott:

 

I will have to experiment with your technique of adding an extra floor and not fussing with attic walls.  What I am wondering about regarding my suggestion is, if attic walls don't provide room definition, then there shouldn't be any 3rd floor framing to worry about.  I am going to go do a quick test and see how this might work.

Curt,  I just tried again to build a chimney chase,  and I do not get it.  It should not be difficult,  but I cannot seem to get it to work.  There always seems to be some minor snafu that does not make the exercise worth doing.  

 

I use PSOLIDS for the chimney chase,  not ideal by any means,  but I just can't get the chimneys to work for me.

[lbuttery]

you would think that Chief would have a chimney tool

 

they have been around for "thousands of years" and common to construction

 

the tool could also have settings for common styles with flare on left or right or both etc

 

I've been suggesting this for almost a decade

 

guess CA's not listening

 

Lew

[CJSpud]

Scott:

 

This was so easy, I think I could have done it in my sleep.  I did it the way I suggested ... just 4 attic walls joined ... your right, no room def ... that was good as there was no floor framing at the top ... drug the walls up in elevation views (the roof didn't chop them off ... they were sticking out already - Great .... put a PL solid lid on the top of the chimney walls ... found a couple of chimney tops in the library and got them positioned as shown.  EASY PEEZZZZY

 

               

[dshall]

......... (the roof didn't chop them off ... they were sticking out already .......

 

Chimney2DAtticPlan.JPG    Chimney3DFullOV.JPG    Chimney3DFrmg.JPG    ChimneyXSection.JPG   

I am surprised the roof  did not cut  it off....  did you hit f12 to rebuild,  if you did,  I think the roof would cut off the walls.

 

Not a big deal if the roof cuts off walls,  all you need to do is put a hole in the roof platform and the framing of attic walls will pop thru.

 

Nice job if it is truly working.  I am loathe to drag walls up and down in  elevation,  don't know why,  probably because I am anal,  but if it works, good,  but it should not be necessary,  we should be able to control the height via the ceiling height default....  which of course needs a room def.

[CJSpud]

Scott:

 

No, I didn't F12 the roof to see if it would chop the walls off.  But, your idea of cutting a hole in the roof would probably solve that issue if there was no need to add an extra floor such as you do.

[Kbird1]

True Brick Chimneys don't have framing but not sure what the OP really wanted ?......However it might be done this was for "the look" , a framed chase is usually only done for B-Vent type chimneys , otherwise it would be double (masonry) layer brick. Might use "Cultured Stone" on a framed wall these days I guess too....

 

Scott's idea of the extra floor should work too , it is the same method used to do Custom Cupolas , you just have to make sure to derive the extra floor from a BLANK plan or it doesn't work. Not sure if it works if the Chimney is "outside" the building though, haven't tried that part.

 

http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/support/article/KB-00869/52/Home-Designer/Roofs/Creating-a-Cupola.html

 

 

If you build the Chimney as you Build the House it is pretty painless though whether brick or ??? , didn't try too hard with this example when I tried it out a while back but you should be able to add slopes etc with "Shapes" too . No doubt someone has a better method too ?, but I could see how a "tool" would b quicker though and there'd be no need to build it as you build the house..... you could however "pull" the walls up in elevation if you forgot, using this method from the basement too I think.

 

 

here is the X5 plan which includes my "how to" to myself.

 

Brick Chimney Example_X5.plan

 

 

 

[dshall]

Kbird, this is something that has bugged me for a long time...... (Framed chimney chases). I can't believe I can not make it work but every time I try there is a glitch.

I am going to try again tomorrow.

[Kbird1]

The technique I used above works for Framed Chimney Chases as well , just tried it to make sure on the plan I posted above , and it does work for adding a chimney after the fact too if needed, which I hadn't tried before.      I'll attach the new plan too.

 

 

 

Only downside is in section view you'll see the interior wall of the chase against the house , so you'd need to remove those lines in your section detail.

 

I used a text box on my .plan to make notes originally so the "How To" is On the plan. Updated on One level if adding afterwards.

 

Your trick of the extra floor isn't needed but , maybe it could help ? have a look on the new .plan , You or Glenn can no doubt modify my technique and make it better, being you ( and others) here really know the inner workings of CA. 

 

 

Mick.

 

 

New plan:  Brick Chimney Example cw Framed Chimney_X5.plan

 

 

 

 

[DRAWZILLA]

If the fireplace is metal than I make it out of rooms, if its masonry then I make it out of solids.

[Kbird1]

Because of the double wall in My Method you may need to increase the depth of the firebox to get it to show properly or it may show one of the wall layers in the opening instead. The fireplace will cut its own hole in the wall , just use the Ctrl Key to position in the wall.

 

M.

[SNestor]

Attached is the CA plan file I am trying to build the chimney chase in. Also, I've attached a PDF of the plan file I am attempting to duplicate. This plan was created with Vertex BD...a supposedly high-end cad software for production builders. It's the software used where I work.

The walls on the outside of the chase are 2x6 with brick veneer. The wall between the living area and the chase is a different wall type. I have the walls built on the first two floors...but, not sure how to build the top of the chase above the 2nd floor top plate.

I have read the comments on this thread...maybe building a 3rd floor is the answer. Have not tried yet.

Estridge Plan 1.plan.zip

[Kbird1]

Scott did some Video's ( see link ) but if the Firebox is on the interior you need the 3rd (Blank) floor , if it is exterior chimney ( think so in your case)  you don't , but need to cut back the roofline and add the inner "no locate wall ".

 

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/1319-chimney-framing-videos-by-dsh/

[Kbird1]

While on the Knowledge Base's today , I found two articles ,using slighty different methods ,both  start of similar but finish differently.

 

http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/support/article/KB-00744/262/Home-Designer/Custom-Objects/Creating-a-Custom-Fireplace-and-Chimney.html#

 

http://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00058/

[lbuttery]

Creative combinations of different objects such as fixtures, soffits, walls and wall openings allow you to create a wide variety of fireplace and chimney designs.

 

Hmmm, a dedicated chimney tool would be so much nicer

 

Lew

[Kbird1]

Yep , not sure why the Fireplace Tool was never expanded so you could do the chimney too , or why it can't do "chases"

 

M.

[SNestor]

The suggestions are helpful to me just for learning how certain things can be accomplished....such as using the cabinet tools to create the mantle and the soffit tool to construct the hearth. However, the example is simplistic. The fireplace I am trying to model is outside the structure and has basement walls under the 3 outside chase walls...which have brick veneer.

I did not know how to create the opening for the fire place itself...use a window. Cool. I used a door opening. But, with a door opening you have to be happy with a flush hearth as the firebox will be on the floor. Using a window opening you can have a raised hearth.

Between Scott's videos, comments here in this post and the CA help I feel I did get the chimney modeled correctly...and learned a lot of tricks that could help me in the future.

Thanks. I'll be back for more I'm sure.

[glennw]

I did not know how to create the opening for the fire place itself...use a window. Cool. I used a door opening. But, with a door opening you have to be happy with a flush hearth as the firebox will be on the floor. Using a window opening you can have a raised hearth.

 

 

You can raise the sill of a door to any height you want.

It doesn't have to sit on the floor.

[SH_Canada]

On 6/20/2014 at 6:00 PM, Kbird1 said:

If you build the Chimney as you Build the House it is pretty painless though whether brick or ??? , didn't try too hard with this example when I tried it out a while back but you should be able to add slopes etc with "Shapes" too . No doubt someone has a better method too ?, but I could see how a "tool" would b quicker though and there'd be no need to build it as you build the house..... you could however "pull" the walls up in elevation if you forgot, using this method from the basement too I think.

 

 

here is the X5 plan which includes my "how to" to myself.

 

Brick Chimney Example_X5.plan

 

thanks @Kbird1 . It worked well, just have to make sure the sides walls of the chimney are not actually connected to the main wall and the no locate wall has the outside layer to the outside(i.e. follow your instruction carefully and this problem does not occur as you make the room and then move it). otherwise it looks like this with the studs showing:

and done correctly:

 

 

[DzinEye]

12 hours ago, jasonN said:

otherwise it looks like this with the studs showing:

Not really how it's usually built though.  Usually the main wall would continue up.  Alternatively to your solution you can break the house wall at the connections with the side walls of the chimney, then open that wall section, select the roof panel, then select 'lower wall split by butting roof' and apply the proper wall types to the upper and lower sections.

[Kbird1]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:36 PM, jasonN said:

 

thanks @Kbird1 . It worked well, just have to make sure the sides walls of the chimney are not actually connected to the main wall and the no locate wall has the outside layer to the outside(i.e. follow your instruction carefully and this problem does not occur as you make the room and then move it). otherwise it looks like this with the studs showing:

and done correctly:

 

 

 

 

Wow....a bit of a Blast from the Past there....

 

good to know it still will work if needed , to be honest I have not had to try it in X13,

so I am not 100% sure if there are better methods these days or not?

 

Mick.

[winterdd]

On 6/20/2014 at 1:40 PM, CJSpud said:

Go up into the attic and draw your walls there ... make a room and give it the desired ceiling height .... or draw the walls on the attic level (they should want to stay under the roof unless you make them do otherwise ... then in elevation views (backclipped) drag them up one at a time.  That should give you the framing.  Make you wall definition whatever it needs to be for materials.  You may need to use a PL solid for the cap.  Post your results when you get it figured out.  I got something similar I need to do with a plan soon.

I do mine similar to this and use the caps provided in the library......