Dual Pitch Hip Roof

[JLHomeCo]

Hi there! I'm trying to create a dual pitch hip roof and I'm having troubles doing it on my own and I'm not able to find resources to assist. I've attached a snip of what the builder is requesting as well as the reaction from the software, but I'm unsure how to apply the concept to CA and have it pop out the correct ridge lines, etc. If anyone has done this - or if there's a video I'm missing, any assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance. 

[basketballman]

Not sure if you can keep the same facia heights but have 2 different pitches on a hip roof .. ?

[Chrisb222]

59 minutes ago, JLHomeCo said:

I'm unsure how to apply the concept to CA and have it pop out the correct ridge lines, etc.

 

I would do that with Auto Roofs by entering the main pitch in the Build Roof dialog, then changing the Roof settings in the Wall Specs dialog for the walls with a different pitch:

 

[Chrisb222]

1 hour ago, JLHomeCo said:

 

If you're trying to end up with a more complex roof like this, I would still start as I already posted but would switch to manual just to speed up the process. While that roof can probably be done fully auto, I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying it - there are some tricky areas that just go faster manually.

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, JLHomeCo said:

'm having troubles doing it on my own and I'm not able to find resources to assist.

 

I am not sure what I am missing as chief has no issues doing this automatically by changing the Roof pitch over a single Wall  ie 9 in 12 in tis example , on the Roof tab of the Wall in question while Auto Build Roof Planes is still on.  ( at least I don't think the OP is asking about a Gullwing or Dutch gable Roof )

 

 

Single wall pitch change KB Article

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00045/changing-the-pitch-of-a-single-automatic-roof-plane.html

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/18908-signature-here-at-chief-talk/?tab=comments#comment-155662

 

M.

[JLHomeCo]

Thanks, all! I really appreciate the assist! With all of the advice I was able to get to here. I'm having trouble joining the corner roof planes. I've changed fascia height, ridge height, pitch (a chunk needs to be 9, but the other 3 can be whatever works. It didn't quite work with 6, so I've flipped all to 9, but they're still not snapping...). I feel like I'm close. Any advice to get the last 3 pieces of the puzzle to connect? 

[robdyck]

22 minutes ago, JLHomeCo said:

Any advice to get the last 3 pieces of the puzzle to connect? 

Click on one valley, press '2', then click on the connecting valley. Same for hips and ridges.

[GeneDavis]

Pro tip: the valleys and hips of two meeting differently-pitched roof planes do not cross the corners, and those roofs have different heel-stand heights, when common roof overhangs are specified.

 

Those hips and valleys are called irregular, and old-school roof-cutters have a vulgar name for them.

[robdyck]

1 minute ago, GeneDavis said:

old-school roof-cutters have a vulgar name for them.

That's for sure! Several years ago I had to frame a huge house where all roof planes front-to-back were 6:12 and all planes side-to-side were 7:12. Vulgar language was required!

Wouldn't have bothered me if they were quite different, but 6's and 7's?? Not cool!

[StephenGreene]

On 6/26/2023 at 9:02 AM, basketballman said:

Not sure if you can keep the same facia heights but have 2 different pitches on a hip roof .. ?

 

I bet that as many as half the plans i draw have multi-pitch roofs with the fascia the same height. and i built a ton of them back in the day. all one has to do is raise the fascia of the steeper roof to match the fascia of the shallower roof plane. 

[DrawingABlank]

On 6/27/2023 at 11:01 AM, GeneDavis said:

Pro tip: the valleys and hips of two meeting differently-pitched roof planes do not cross the corners, and those roofs have different heel-stand heights, when common roof overhangs are specified.

Are you allowing different overhang depths? I'll stop short of saying they absolutely have to vary in order for it to work.

EDIT: my apologies. I was recalling a past hip roof project incorrectly. We were lining up a covered deck and the framing that 100% required depth change.

[StephenGreene]

overhangs can still be exactly the same with different pitches.

[para-CAD]

Chief does a good job of irregular pitched roofs if you set the roof pitch in the wall before building.

 

Here's a framing breakdown.  Most won't need or care, but if it helps.....that's all that matters

 

 

[Chrisb222]

5 hours ago, JLHomeCo said:

I've changed fascia height, ridge height

 

Usually not a good idea. The way I modify roofs like that is to open the roof plane (auto roofs is off by this time), lock the fascia top height then adjust the pitch. This will keep the soffits at the same height. Afterwards, join the valleys using the Join Roof Planes tool. You also join the ridges this way, which determines the ridge height automatically:

 

 

However, the roof you're working on is going to have some different fascia top heights here and there, and/or different soffit depths. And it looks like there may be a sloped eave on the original plan. So it's fairly complex, and takes a fair knowledge of how Chief builds roofs to get it right.

 

I can see that your valleys aren't joined properly, since there is no solid line where the planes meet. That means that one roof plane is jutting into the other. The 3D may look right, but the model isn't accurate and may not work the way it appears in 3D.

 

No offense, but right now it's kind of a mess. If I were working on it, at this stage I would go back to Auto Roofs and start over. That may be easier at this point, but hard to know without actually seeing the plan.

[GeneDavis]

Post the plan, please.  If it seems to big, strip it of everything you've added beyond just basic structure of walls, floors, and roofs.  Delete cabinets, take out that fireplace, etc.

 

Then it ought to zip and attach at less than the 14MB max.  Someone will roof it all for you, I'm sure.  

 

But you really ought to learn how to do it yourself.  All it takes is two clicks to join two intersecting planes.  But the beginning of it all, is the setup before saying AUTO ROOF THIS.  Room heights, overhangs, pitches, gable or not, etc., etc.

[JLHomeCo]

Thanks, all! Here is the plan if anyone is curious. Yes, there are different wall heights, yes - fine with different overhangs and or fascia heights. This builder doesn't like "simple" so anything the auto roof would do has not been his style. I've not yet found a fun way do to roofs on a "square" house. If he does an irregular shape, or something with a courtyard garage, etc., it's easier to make it more dynamic (IMO). 

Dave Broken Roof .zip

[GeneDavis]

I'm not gonna download it to see.  Four others already have and I'd bet you'll get some feedback.

 

I see you are new here with only a few posts.  There have been discussions, a number of them here on Chieftalk, the subject being something like "how do I roof this?"  They always result in experienced users saying the same thing.  Auto roof the thing, then manually edit as needed.  Many more complex than your builder client might build, and they get auto-roofed.  As I said earlier, the whole thing begins with the floor plan and ALL room heights defined, then all walls on which roof bears getting the right roof spec.

 

Have you seen this video?  One of the first that pops up on YouTube when searching Roofs Chief Architect.  

 

[basketballman]

On 6/27/2023 at 12:05 PM, StephenGreene said:

 

I bet that as many as half the plans i draw have multi-pitch roofs with the fascia the same height. and i built a ton of them back in the day. all one has to do is raise the fascia of the steeper roof to match the fascia of the shallower roof plane. 

 Can you show us one that you've done with the facia all at same height and 2 differen pitches as in original posted pic.  ?

   3D view ?

[TeaTime]

To be normal honest: there's a lot going on here - too much to give a simple answer.

To be brutally honest: your baselines stress me out. I had to just ignore them and focus on matching fascia heights.

 

One big tip to start though: that one roof plane that's jutting up too high needs to match the 6:12 pitch of the main roof just so that it can even join the rest.

 

After that, it's a game of massaging things into place. I played with this for a little while before I got it to fit together nice n tight.

 

7 hours ago, JLHomeCo said:

there are different wall heights, yes - fine with different overhangs and or fascia heights.

In a design like this you're guaranteed to have different fascia heights, but the trick it getting them to match where they need to, then reshaping the overbuilding areas.

 

In a lot of places you can open one roof plane, copy the Fascia Top Height and paste it to adjoining roof plane, locking the Pitch. As long as they have the same overhang depth and fascia height, the Join should be good.

 

One big hurdle here though is that main 6:12 plane on the top has different fascia heights:

You cant copy the fascia height from this one since it'll take the lowest fascia (the right edge). To get the left edge fascia height you'll either need to manually measure in elevation or draw a new roof plane over that wall -- the Move to be Coplanar roof tool works wonders for this. Pull that left edge back off the wall, draw a small roof plane over that wall and Move to be Coplanar with the large roof. Then copy it's fascia height around to 9:12 plane on the left.

 

There's probably a good half dozen other snags you may run into here though - I know some people on here offer training services, as does Chief directly. I'd probably suggest looking into that.

[SNestor]

@JLHomeCo - I took a shot and placed a dual pitched roof on your plan. I wouldn't say it's an award winning roof design...but, at least it covers the floor below. 

Here is the plan; 6.27.23 - Dave Back Roof - Steve.plan.zip

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by SNestor
added elevation views

[GeneDavis]

Nice patch, Steve.   

 

@JLHomeCo Hi, Lauren!  I've a question as re the roof plan you show with a couple of handwritten notes, the photo of the paper plan page in your opening post.

 

The plan says it's a roof truss plan, but only shows roof planes and bearing walls.

 

Is that part of a complete plan set with elevations for all four sides of the model?  We'd like to see those elevations if available.  As Steve said in his post above this, his model of a roof with the planes all joining and "working" won't win any awards for roof design.  Maybe whoever designed the plan that resulted in the paper prints that include that roof view can show us something, some way to place that 6-pitch roof plane facing the front, so those walls look better.

 

When a designer works with 2D software, or draws by hand, and a plan footprint has the complexities of this project, it often happens that they draw either impossible roofs, or roofs that really don't "work right" when you flesh them out in 3D.  That's maybe what is happening here.

 

So post those elevations if you have them, please.  We may be missing something.

[StephenGreene]

On 6/28/2023 at 3:23 PM, basketballman said:

 Can you show us one that you've done with the facia all at same height and 2 differen pitches as in original posted pic.  ?

   3D view ?

Here is something I drew up in just a few minutes with three different ways to do the overhang on a multi-pitch roof. Usually, I just hit auto build with all the roof pitches set at the lowest pitch, then lock the shadow boards top height and then raise the pitch on the adjacent roof plane. That method keeps all the overhangs the same, but it does throw the hip off of center of the corner. You can also shorten the overhang of the steeper pitch, but I never do that. Another method is to have steeper pitch set on the plate just as the lower pitch but with no tails and a short shallow pitch roof plane at the bottom. This way leaves the hip centered on the corner and probably the method preferred by most framers because they don't have to figure out how far over to move the hip or valley and how much to raise the seat height of the higher roof pitch. 

Multi-pitch roof plan.plan

[JLHomeCo]

Hi, all! Thank you so much for all of the tips and tricks! I was able to get everything shifted and functional enough for what it's for! I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!

 

Lauren