Chief Architect Software Licensing Changes Beginning January 10, 2023

[HumbleChief]

7 minutes ago, Doug_N said:

I know that some people's opinions are less liked by most but a downvote on an opinion that is reasonably spelled out?  Come on guys. children.

Fixed...

[HumbleChief]

8 hours ago, Designer1 said:

SSA was never $199.  Back when it came out in X1 the "cheapest" it ever was $395. 

 

I have never heard so many colleagues and designers say such wonderful things about chief prior to this subscription change.  Now all of them, have moved on and started looking and working with other software.  In my opinion, chief got greedy and tried to force everyones hand with this new pricing model and in the end will loose more business.  The arrogance and lack of consideration for its users is unbelievable, we, the users, are the reason they stayed in business all these years.  

I haven't followed this thread that closely for a while and can understand the frustration with the pricing change but "all of them" have moved on? These are colleagues? How many? Current Chief users? How is this subjective assumption relevant?

 

And it may be true that Chief, with its new pricing model, "will lose more business" but it might be more accurate to suggest that Chief will lose some current customers or end users which with increased revenues may still drop a larger profit to the bottom line allowing more resources to be dedicated to making the program better for the remaining users.

 

I think the biggest challenge will be attracting new users. I think it is the hope of management that they have created a solid enough niche in the competitive market place to attract small home and remodelers as Chief currently is IMO the best option for that niche. Time will tell and I have less and less concern as I will happily pay the SSA fees going forward and factor in any increases to my business model. And as always best of luck to everyone no matter their choices. 

[Archnot-Boltz]

25 minutes ago, Doug_N said:

I know that some people's opinions are less liked by most but a downvote on an opinion that is reasonably spelled out?  Come one guys.

I don't mind getting a downvote as everyone is entitled to an opinion. Only problem is you don't know if they are downvoting my entire post or a specific portion. A rebuttal  is a better response and accomplishes more.

[Archnot-Boltz]

12 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

I haven't followed this thread that closely for a while and can understand the frustration with the pricing change but "all of them" have moved on? These are colleagues? How many? Current Chief users? How is this subjective assumption relevant?

 

And it may be true that Chief, with its new pricing model, "will lose more business" but it might be more accurate to suggest that Chief will lose some current customers or end users which with increased revenues may still drop a larger profit to the bottom line allowing more resources to be dedicated to making the program better for the remaining users.

 

I think the biggest challenge will be attracting new users. I think it is the hope of management that they have created a solid enough niche in the competitive market place to attract small home and remodelers as Chief currently is IMO the best option for that niche. Time will tell and I have less and less concern as I will happily pay the SSA fees going forward and factor in any increases to my business model. And as always best of luck to everyone no matter their choices. 

Humble Chief is correct in his assessment that this thread is moot. The die has been cast and those of us who are continuing with SSA are currently hitched to the wagon and continuing on the path. If I were coming in fresh out of the cold, I'd take SP at $95.00 per month hands down (but that's just me).

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

I don't mind getting a downvote as everyone is entitled to an opinion. Only problem is you don't know if they are downvoting my entire post or a specific portion. A rebuttal  is a better response and accomplishes more.

This is a very important point in my opinion. A down vote doesn't let anyone know what your idea or opinion is and only serves as an  anonymous indictment of someone else's ideas and opinions. It's childish and serves no useful purpose. Let us know what you think instead and instead of down voting this post, what do think?

 

Bradley, I'm going to post something similar in the main forum as I think it's important. Thank You.

[glennw]

9 hours ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

Shoot, our CAD doesn't yet have a good rotate around a point tool.-bb

Brad,

What is wrong with Transform/Replicate>Rotate?

[Doug_N]

39 minutes ago, glennw said:

Brad,

What is wrong with Transform/Replicate>Rotate?

Hi Glenn,

 

I think that it is not intuitive that you have to define the rotation point with a temporary point insertion to do anything but rotate about some point that may not be obvious. 

[mthd97]

CA is definitely more superior to SP. SP is good for Home Builders as well but not as good as CA is for Home Builders, Architects, Interior Designers & Drafters.

 

CA is a very good all round product but still should have a perpetual licensing policy for new users who want one and want SSA as well.

 

You will catch more Bees with honey !

 

You want to sell more software and get more users on board with CA ?

 

Bring back a perpetual licensing policy if you want to.

[Archnot-Boltz]

7 hours ago, mthd97 said:

CA is definitely more superior to SP. SP is good for Home Builders as well but not as good as CA is for Home Builders, Architects, Interior Designers & Drafters.

 

CA is a very good all round product but still should have a perpetual licensing policy for new users who want one and want SSA as well.

 

You will catch more Bees with honey !

 

You want to sell more software and get more users on board with CA ?

 

Bring back a perpetual licensing policy if you want to.

Obviously, there's No arguement from me regarding the perpetual licensing thing. SP still gives both options and their perpetual license wasn't  much more expensive than Chief's. Their monthly subcription at $95 per month is half of Chief's. Their work-flow and drawing methodology is a bit more indirect in that you can't as easily draw first and ask questions later like you can in Chief. Chief kicks arse in preliminary design work and SP kicks arse in materials take-offs an reality of construction drawings. Also allows multiple options within the same base plane without having to do Save As multiple plans (Existing Conditions, Demo Plan and multiple plan options such as Bath 1 w/shower, Bath 2 w/ tub shower etc).

 

On what basis are you so emphatic about Chief's superiority over SP? I used SP briefly back in the late 90's and my coworker, who's a long time veteran Chief user (since Chief 6) and turned me on to Chief in '97 is currently running SP thru it's paces and anxiously awaiting SP2024. I have high hopes for X15 but don't see how an architect would choose Chief over SP. The fact that interior designers and kitchen designers prefer Chief is sort of telling about Chief's not giving the builder, architects a little better in the nuts and bolts department. 

 

To continue beating my dead horse: Decks, Stairs, Railings, Beams and Framing, still need work  to get up to an architect's level of required detail and model accuracy. Love Chief and hope they continue to improve. But will also be demoing SP to see the grass on the other side. bb

 

[SheriC]

I've tried to find SP. What is this? I found "DraftSight". Do you know anything about this software?

[lbuttery]

Food for thought 

 

when considering whether Chief is better than SP (or any other software)

consider the "old" days

 

I started with Chief 9.5 and thought it was top-notch

our first plan brought us many customers

 

I'm sure any Chiefers back then were proud of the work they did back then

yes, Chief X14 offers a zillion more features that make the job easier/faster

 

yet, back then you got the job done and the clients were probably very satisfied

and you probably made a decent living

 

we get enamored with new features etc but do we really need them ?

 

I could get to work just as easy using my 1961 Impala back then

as I do now with my 2018 Yukon with rear view cameras and wifi and satellite radio etc

 

what is really needed to get the job done ?

 

Lew

 

 

[DBCooper]

Quote

 

what is really needed to get the job done?

 

 

A pencil and some paper. 

 

But seriously, if you have better tools available, why wouldn't you want to use them?  The new features don't just make the job faster, they allow us to do things that you would have never done back in the "old days".  I mean who would have ever created a framing overview when drawing by hand?  The fact that most people have software tools now that can do so much more has changed the world so that now these things are requirements, not just pretty pictures. 

 

Not that I have anything against pretty pictures because these can make a huge difference between getting a job or not getting a job just because your competition spent all of 2 minutes making one.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Chief has already made up its mind.  I wouldn't expect them to change back unless they saw a significant decrease in income.  I plan on sticking with Chief but if you think there is a better tool available (not just cheaper, better), then by all means you should jump ship.  Best of luck.

 

This is turning into a zombie thread.  It just won't die.  

 

[Archnot-Boltz]

1 hour ago, SheriC said:

I've tried to find SP. What is this? I found "DraftSight". Do you know anything about this software?

Softplan is the name. Sorry for the abbreviation.

[Alaskan_Son]

11 hours ago, SheriC said:

I found "DraftSight". Do you know anything about this software?

DraftSight is a really good alternative to AutoCAD and was the 2D software I used back when I needed it.  It is however not really comparable to Chief at all as it isi essentially just a 2D CAD software and not a full architectural 3D modeling software like Chief Architect, Softplan, Revit, Vectorworks, ArchiCAD, AllPlan, Sketchup, or some of the others being discussed.  Like AutoCAD, it does have some 3D capabilities but they're pretty limited.

[Doug_N]

9 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

DraftSight is a really good alternative to AutoCAD and was the 2D software I used back when I needed it.  It is however not really comparable to Chief at all as it i essentially just a 2D CAD software and not a full architectural 3D modeling software like Chief Architect, Softplan, Revit, Vectorworks, ArchiCAD, AllPlan, Sketchup, or some of the others being discussed.  Like AutoCAD, it does have some 3D capabilities but they're pretty limited.

Draftsight and AutoCad LT are very similar it seems to me.

[John_Charles]

I've renewed my SSA as it was clear there was little choice.... that said, I'm part way through reviewing Softplan at present, as although it has similarities (even down to the different view modes eg clay), it has a couple of things that in my opinion CA is just crying out for.

 

CAVEAT - I'm not an expert like some of you here so whilst I am sure there is a workaround for each thing I mention below, so far I'm seeing a drawing and detail bias in SP as opposed to what I see CA doing, which appears to be a rendering and appearance bias.  Some examples are;

1. SP has the ability to really edit elevations and sections.  You can choose between Model mode or Annotation mode.  This means you can actually edit (from what I am experimenting with at present) the model itself while viewing a section.  The sections show far more detail and you aren't drawing CAD lines to get a measurement to snap to an item.  For me, sections are a major weakness of CA.
2. Little items such as SP automatically mulls windows or doors placed near each other with auto beam updates etc.
3. The SP preloaded library is massive, easier to view and has preloaded styles to select from... eg cabinet bases - you can choose from a 3 drawer base to a single drawer with doors as you insert a base.  With a few extra clicks you have the cabinetry configured as you lay it out rather than individually going back and designing it afterwards.
4. Same thing applies with simple things such as building feature columns from a large selection of pre loaded items that have the ability to be manipulated in all sorts of ways, as opposed to us creating 3D solids ourselves or importing a sketchup model.
5. Has an interesting approach to the room specification, in that it allows you to pre load your styles, colors, materials and details on a room by room basis at any time though the design process.  This means 1 click auto loads your preferences for base boards, wall trim or whatever you want in that room.  As you do that it automatically populates your electrical for you to refine later in your electrical layout.
6. Framing, beams and truss manipulation appears to be superior from what I can see so far.

Overall, the interface of CA is far superior IMO, the SP is weaker in its' PBR and documentation manipulation and whether it is because I'm familiar with CA and it's quirks means I'm biased still towards CA, it's still my preference..... BUT.... I really wish CA would take a long hard look at some of these things as it appears to me SP is not far from catching and then overhauling CA....

 

Just my 0.2c....

 

 

[Archnot-Boltz]

30 minutes ago, John_Charles said:

I've renewed my SSA as it was clear there was little choice.... that said, I'm part way through reviewing Softplan at present, as although it has similarities (even down to the different view modes eg clay), it has a couple of things that in my opinion CA is just crying out for.

 

CAVEAT - I'm not an expert like some of you here so whilst I am sure there is a workaround for each thing I mention below, so far I'm seeing a drawing and detail bias in SP as opposed to what I see CA doing, which appears to be a rendering and appearance bias.  Some examples are;

1. SP has the ability to really edit elevations and sections.  You can choose between Model mode or Annotation mode.  This means you can actually edit (from what I am experimenting with at present) the model itself while viewing a section.  The sections show far more detail and you aren't drawing CAD lines to get a measurement to snap to an item.  For me, sections are a major weakness of CA.
2. Little items such as SP automatically mulls windows or doors placed near each other with auto beam updates etc.
3. The SP preloaded library is massive, easier to view and has preloaded styles to select from... eg cabinet bases - you can choose from a 3 drawer base to a single drawer with doors as you insert a base.  With a few extra clicks you have the cabinetry configured as you lay it out rather than individually going back and designing it afterwards.
4. Same thing applies with simple things such as building feature columns from a large selection of pre loaded items that have the ability to be manipulated in all sorts of ways, as opposed to us creating 3D solids ourselves or importing a sketchup model.
5. Has an interesting approach to the room specification, in that it allows you to pre load your styles, colors, materials and details on a room by room basis at any time though the design process.  This means 1 click auto loads your preferences for base boards, wall trim or whatever you want in that room.  As you do that it automatically populates your electrical for you to refine later in your electrical layout.
6. Framing, beams and truss manipulation appears to be superior from what I can see so far.

Overall, the interface of CA is far superior IMO, the SP is weaker in its' PBR and documentation manipulation and whether it is because I'm familiar with CA and it's quirks means I'm biased still towards CA, it's still my preference..... BUT.... I really wish CA would take a long hard look at some of these things as it appears to me SP is not far from catching and then overhauling CA....

 

Just my 0.2c....

 

 

Bingo! Very nicely stated. Looks like you've been taking a serious look for comparison. My co-worker would definitely concur.

[glennw]

I really don't want to spend a lot of time dissecting your post.

Suffice it to say that Chief can do a lot of what you are talking about.

ie, in Chief, you CAN edit the model in elevations/sections, use dimensions in elevations and sections, auto mulling windows and doors may not be desirable, auto beam updates are no problem.....

You can even edit the model in a true 3D view and even in the Cross Section Slider.

Most of your other points have comparable features in Chief like customised Room Types....

[Chrisb222]

I'm not going anywhere. 

[mthd97]

Zombie thread ? I certainly don’t think so. In the end you cannot expect all the good things in one type of CAD software to work well in the other. The only time that can happen is when a big CAD software company buys out another. Autodesk purchasing Revit for example. Revit Lt Suite with AutoCad Lt together.

 

You shouldn’t be forced into a cult following of one type of CAD software either as is the case with many CAD users who are just one eyed.

 

If you need to use Softplan with Chief Architect, then go ahead, no one has the right to disagree with what software you will use ? Mac or Windows, our choice. MS office or other software ?

 

If it helps your office get your work done efficiently and easily, then just use it.

 

If you just need to use Chief by itself then that’s cool to.

 

I have used Chief Architect & Archicad in my office for my scope of work.

 

If I was starting out new today I might just use Autodesk Lt products if they are cost effective where I live so I can just get started. Then if I have more cash flow I might look at using full BIM software.

 

Chief Architect was cost effective and easy to use when I started and that’s why I think the 2K per year might be a bit too steep for new users but who knows ? Time will tell.

[SheriC]

9 hours ago, DBCooper said:

 

A pencil and some paper. 

 

But seriously, if you have better tools available, why wouldn't you want to use them?  The new features don't just make the job faster, they allow us to do things that you would have never done back in the "old days".  I mean who would have ever created a framing overview when drawing by hand?  The fact that most people have software tools now that can do so much more has changed the world so that now these things are requirements, not just pretty pictures. 

 

Not that I have anything against pretty pictures because these can make a huge difference between getting a job or not getting a job just because your competition spent all of 2 minutes making one.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Chief has already made up its mind.  I wouldn't expect them to change back unless they saw a significant decrease in income.  I plan on sticking with Chief but if you think there is a better tool available (not just cheaper, better), then by all means you should jump ship.  Best of luck.

 

This is turning into a zombie thread.  It just won't die.  

 

Chief made a colossal marketing mistake, IMHO. Purposefully released when it was the busiest time of year. When licenses have to be renewed, continuing education completed, and shopping for holidays. Tricks are never well received, especially when they affect the bank account. I would lose clients if I were to pull tricks and deceptive notice practices with my hard earned good will. Word would travel fast if I did anything perceived as untoward and unfair. Bad news travels fast, hard feelings run deep. Chief made their decision and so have I and others I know. Best to all. 

[mthd97]

So now, how do SSA current users keep their future SSA payments up to date since the CA website only shows subscription prices ?

[Kbird1]

50 minutes ago, mthd97 said:

So now, how do SSA current users keep their future SSA payments up to date since the CA website only shows subscription prices ?

 

They used to send emails starting a month before expiry , but I am not sure what the current practice will be , though I do know you can call in and make arrangements to have your CC on File for Auto-yearly renewal. Bit tougher from Oz perhaps?

 

Couple of years ago when I did mine they also allowed a 5% discount if you paid for multiple years at a time, but again I am not sure if that is an Option under the new Scheme?

 

M.

[Joe_Carrick]

lower -left corner of the "Dashboard" shows the SSA Expiration Date.

Typically, you can renew simply by logging in to your account.

[raltd9245]

I think The pedople at CHIEF should satisfy their greed another way.