Chief Architect Software Licensing Changes Beginning January 10, 2023

[ComputerMaster86]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:57 PM, KristjanM said:

I think this is a terrible change from Chief. This does nothing for the user and only benefits Chief. I left Revit exactly due to the implementation of the subscription model. With Softplan, if you own a version and pay their version of the SSA, you get the updates as they come out. However you don't own the new version and if you quit the SSA, you only have rights to your original version. So, a possible scenario. You create a project in Version 16 (you own Version 14) and decide that you no longer need the  SSA updates. You can no longer use Version 16 and can't open any projects created with it. This is exactly what happens with Softplan. I would like to hear Chief's explanation about what version of the software one is actually going to own.

I think this type of business model encourages a company to get lazy on rolling out updates and further developing software and making it better.  I despise AutoDesk for going down that road.

[mthd97]

Sorry to hear how many users are upset by this decision like me.

 

My understanding is that your version license will not actually end completely when you decide to stop your SSA when you retire or stop for some other reason.

 

You can still use the version you have ended your SSA at from what I understand but we will not be able to sell on our licenses.

 

I don’t think they would send out a virus after we end SSA to stop our CA programs from working.

 

It looks like you can keep SSA going for as long as you wish if you are still on it before the deadline.

 

I think they are rewarding past users by keeping SSA alive for us if we wish to continue with it.

 

The problem comes about if you want to expand and have more seats of CA, then you have to enter the new subscription arrangement if you choose to do so ?

[HumbleChief]

2 hours ago, ValleyGuy said:

If CA can make a firm statement as to the future SSA prices...

As I posted previously perhaps I can help understand 'the future SSA prices' with 'a firm statement' - the price for SSA will go up in the future. Count on it. Depend on it. Budget for it. 

[lbuttery]

I don’t think they would send out a virus after we end SSA to stop our CA programs from working

 

No, but the software license requires that you contact the "mother ship" every few weeks or the software

stops working

 

very easy for CA in the future to take away the "mother ship" for older licenses 

 

Lew

[stephenbc]

This topic, spurred by CA’s announcement, has been an interesting read given the thoughts and feelings expressed.  I can’t help but offer my own.

 

The subscription model is usually embraced by companies that believe that a predictable stream of revenue will help them plan production as well as R&D.  Large software companies have been pushing this for years and other industries are taking notice.  Some electric vehicle manufacturers are looking at subscription services to ‘enable’ heating or air conditioning, all to help identify revenue streams to effect (supposedly) more efficient planning.  They also hint that predictable revenues reduce large fluctuations in stock pricing.  I say ‘supposedly’, because the better planning rationale seems to fly in the face with history.  Some companies are really good at planning, others not so much.  So, is this model really necessary, or is there a need for better management?  I’m speaking generally about the model, not specifically about CA’s management. Either way, it is hard to know if this model is more of a benefit to a company or to the user of a company’s products.

 

Regarding the ability to sell software licenses, of all the software I’ve purchased, I’ve never been able to legally re-sell it.  That type of activity is usually clearly prohibited.  However, I’ve worked for a software company for over 14 years and note that we allowed the ‘transfer’ of licenses to various sites within a company.  I think that being able to sell a license is a huge luxury given all the wording of most license agreements out there.  If CA agreed to some of you that sold, I suspect they did it because they were more concerned with building a reputation by getting as many people to use the software.  This is common with software companies of a small to medium size.  However, things do change once a critical mass is reached, both in size and the potential for future revenues, given all the competition out there.

 

What’s somewhat different with CA is this forum of super users and casual users, those that expect instant results and those that are willing to work through a problem.  I’ve always been impressed by the fact that if I have a question, I can get an answer pretty quick, right here.  That type of support is free, offered by long-time, dedicated and loyal users (some super users).  Such support is gold to the user, but more so (I think) to CA, because it alleviates the burden of time and support at their end.  I suspect most of the loyal users are somewhat miffed at the prospect of this model because they’ve made such a deep dive into learning the software nuances such that there is a feeling of ownership.  And, such ownership is incongruent with this proposed new model.  I can only suspect that CA’s desire to grandfathering in the status quo (SSA each year) is because of the realization of this loyalty.  I also suspect that the complications of managing two pricing models will ultimately force the SSA price up to a point that grandfathered users will have no choice but to switch 3-5 years from now.

 

I personally don’t like the subscription service model.  The main reason is historical and has to do with pride of ownership.  Subscription service seems much like a rental.  Do you look after a rented product the same way as one that’s (theoretically) owned?  Perhaps that only applies to tangible objects, not software?  Because, after all, we never really ‘own’ the software; we license it.  Payment, however, makes one feel like they own it.  I think people tend to look after tangible things more if they own them.  In the case of software, perhaps some wouldn’t be as loyal a user or perhaps wouldn’t spend much time helping others?  I certainly hope not.

 

There is no doubt that this model change would cost the user more.  SSA is $595.  The subscription model essentially has that amount at $1,995.  Ignoring the nice $1,000 discount for the first year, those that switch will be paying $1,400 more each year.  In all, it appears that CA felt that they were not getting enough revenue for their products/services, not just from new sales, but from current users. What do all those loyal and very helpful super users/beta testers get in return for their hard work? 

[TriDiWorx]

At the current state of Premiere this yearly price is not worth it. At this price new users are probably much better off with Revit or ArchiCAD. The only reason I went with Chief is because it feeled simpler to learn and cheaper. Now it is almost not the case. The benefits of industry leading software outweigh 700 extra bucks. The problem is not only in the price, but we have to consider the time it takes to learn software and get good with it and future prospects. So at similar price point I feel other software future prospects are better for new users.

I have been with Chief about 2 years. And in this time used x12, x13 and x14 (trial, rent, buy). I don't remember any actually worth while updates in this time. This is the reason I decided to stop paying for SSA until Chief starts to fix, add and update functionality that is so much needed in this kind of software. Until now the version updates were rather small and for me personally almost useless. But  the model where you own the version you have and have the option to upgrade if some good update came was worth for me not going for Revit or ArchiCAD etc. 

This tactic seems strongarming everyone to pay SSA or risk with the need to opt for 2k a year in the future if the need arises. I wonder if more revenue will be used to actually get better development. And I am quite sure that this SSA system will be changed in the future and older users will be strongarmed again to actually go to a subscription based model. Hopefully by then the software will have something more to offer for that price than it does right now.

Now I am left with options either buy SSA again and never stop paying, use x14 and hope that it is enough (which probably at some point is not) or look to other similarly priced software and waist another year just to get comfortable with new program.

 

I would understand raising prices for SSA and licence. Doing some better quality updates and maybe at some point when Chief can actually compete with other software go for more price increases. But this and right now I do not like at all.

[TriDiWorx]

1 hour ago, TriDiWorx said:

At the current state of Premiere this yearly price is not worth it. At this price new users are probably much better off with Revit or ArchiCAD. The only reason I went with Chief is because it feeled simpler to learn and cheaper. Now it is almost not the case. The benefits of industry leading software outweigh 700 extra bucks. The problem is not only in the price, but we have to consider the time it takes to learn software and get good with it and future prospects. So at similar price point I feel other software future prospects are better for new users.

I have been with Chief about 2 years. And in this time used x12, x13 and x14 (trial, rent, buy). I don't remember any actually worth while updates in this time. This is the reason I decided to stop paying for SSA until Chief starts to fix, add and update functionality that is so much needed in this kind of software. Until now the version updates were rather small and for me personally almost useless. But  the model where you own the version you have and have the option to upgrade if some good update came was worth for me not going for Revit or ArchiCAD etc. 

This tactic seems strongarming everyone to pay SSA or risk with the need to opt for 2k a year in the future if the need arises. I wonder if more revenue will be used to actually get better development. And I am quite sure that this SSA system will be changed in the future and older users will be strongarmed again to actually go to a subscription based model. Hopefully by then the software will have something more to offer for that price than it does right now.

Now I am left with options either buy SSA again and never stop paying, use x14 and hope that it is enough (which probably at some point is not) or look to other similarly priced software and waist another year just to get comfortable with new program.

 

I would understand raising prices for SSA and licence. Doing some better quality updates and maybe at some point when Chief can actually compete with other software go for more price increases. But this and right now I do not like at all.

 

I will add a couple of more of my thoughts.

I do understand that software development is not easy, cheap or fast. Everyone needs to be paid for their efforts. More money should mean better development. Subscription model gives that to a company and it is a stable income. But you do have to give to users something for that devotion. Especially to old users who bought Chief under different conditions and now are forced to think about trusting you or just  bite the bullet and go start learning some other software. For me the decision is not clear yet. I have not seen any good updates, my experience with tech support was so and so and now this huge change in conditions and pricing model. And I cannot believe that this continuation of cheaper SSA for old users will last very long.

I have used full Revit and Revit LT for a bit. I have seen how insanely powerful full Revit is and how much better collaboration with it is. Also Autodesk has whole huge ecosystem built and you get some of that functionality with subscription. For example a LOT better 3D model sharing than Chief has...A LOT better. There is huge amount of free Revit resources for family objects, tutorials, guides, forums, cheap or free online courses. Chief has community forum which is great, but Revit has still a lot more going for it. Considering that Revit is one of those alternatives for Chief and is priced at 2.7k then I cannot see the reasoning behind asking 2k a year for Chief. At least not right now. If I would be a new user and looking for a program I would never choose Chief at this price. I might not be the best judge on software business, but I just don't see this change getting more users or more revenue. Mostly I kind of see this as strongarming older users to keep up their SSA all the time, even if there is not much benefit from it every year for them.

The only three reasons I picked Chief 2 years back was cheaper price, easier to learn, ownership and SSA model. Don't get me wrong Chief is quite a nice software with heavy emphasis on interior design. I do not hate it at current price point. It is a good software. But it is not good at 2k comparing with alternatives. As I have used only Revit then it is the only thing I have to compare with and Chief does not come even close to it. You really do have to give something in return for that money and out of the blue pricing model change.

It makes me think about two options. Trust Chief and stick with it or just start learning something new. I will definitely start playing around with Revit and Revit LT trials to see if I should go back. Quite disappointing decision form Chief.

[lbuttery]

of all the software I’ve purchased, I’ve never been able to legally re-sell it.

 

Hmmm, like books and CD's and DVD's used software is sold all the time

 

Regardless, CA DID allow the license to be sold 

CA posted many times on Chieftalk that there was a transfer fee - usually $50 ($400 or more for non-primary licenses)

CA posted many times that if the license was upgraded then all prior versions had to be included or destroyed

 

over the last few years I have donated my older hardware keys (9,5, 10 , X1, X2) to users who lost or broke their keys

with CA's permission

 

I don't know when CA changed the policy to forbid license transfers but it seems a very recent decision

and was made WITHOUT any notice

 

over the last two decades (since 2005) I recommended Chief to dozens and dozens - if not a hundred+ buyers that Chief was a great deal and they could always sell their license for 70-80% of a new license - CA never once request that I stop 

 

It would have been nice if CA had given us 90 days (or more) to decide about the new policies 

so we could decide if we wanted/needed to continue with SSA or to sell our license

 

I feel screwed out of $2,500 by CA and I'm not happy about it

 

Lew

[joey_martin]

9 hours ago, HumbleChief said:

the price for SSA will go up in the future

So will the price of eggs. Point?

[joey_martin]

59 minutes ago, lbuttery said:

I feel screwed out of $2,500 by CA and I'm not happy about it

Are you saying that over 20 years you haven't recovered your investment in the software? I find that very, very hard to believe.

[HumbleChief]

11 minutes ago, joey_martin said:

So will the price of eggs. Point?

That is the point. There are questions about the future price of SSA and needing some guidelines about that future price and just like the price of eggs, it will go up, plan on it.

[richoffan]

Really! Didn't buy the software based on resale value any more than I bought my F150 based on resale (though that's really good right now) I bought it for its VALUE. To me.

As for the price going up thanks for that sage advice. Very helpful. What would be more helpful is if Chief were to enlighten us. Right now the SSA is less than a days work to cover. Fairly insignificant. If an increase and the coming slow down changes that to a week or more to cover - that would be nice to know. With more than 30 days to adjust. Don't need whining about other programs and what they cost - just want a responsible business associate to help me plan for the coming head winds.

For all the comparisons listed in here how do you know say...Revit LT won't bump to 4500? Jus' sayin'

[Doug_N]

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

That is the point. There are questions about the future price of SSA and needing some guidelines about that future price and just like the price of eggs, it will go up, plan on it.

Larry, I agree with you completely.  Any who thinks this is the last price increase from CA is not paying attention to the rest of the world.  Of course, the price will go up, even if it is just to keep pace with inflation.

 

Also I see a lot of griping about the differential between Chief, Revit, AutoCAD (not really a great tool for houses), ArchiCAD etc.  If the only reason you are using CA is the price, well then, by all means switch.  You can use a wrench as a hammer, but it may not be the best tool. In my professional opinion, CA is the best tool (THE BEST TOOL) (for those not listening) for designing houses.  There are still some issues.  Setting up wall alignments, small offsets along a wall, railing offsets, deck attachments to an exterior wall, and deck support flexibility among others, but by and large, CA is the best in its class and getting better.  

 

I for one, can hardly wait for X15 to launch, so I am a current SSA subscriber. Keep tuned and pay your damned SSA so that you will get it as well.

 

Regarding this user group.  One of the features that makes this such a great group is that CA supports it.  Every once and a while there will be someone from CA that will comment on our post, issue a helpful comment or suggest that we make a comment in the suggestion forum, or even contact support.  What other company does that?  None that I am aware of.  

 

To all of my colleagues out there who support this user group and forum, thank you, thank you thank you.  I feel that you are all out there hoping for my success, just as I do for you.  What a great group.  I feel privileged to be part of this.

[HumbleChief]

Ah, and finally the children with the down votes have decided to join the discussion.

[Smn842]

 

2 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Ah, and finally the children with the down votes have decided to join the discussion.

 

I wish we could remove down votes as they are often used for opinions rather than quality/helpfulness of the post.  Particularly misleading or bad posts can always be reported.

[HumbleChief]

48 minutes ago, richoffan said:

What would be more helpful is if Chief were to enlighten us...

I can write a press release of sorts if you would like. 'We at Chief Architect appreciate all of our users and will try and keep our prices for all aspects of your purchase, SSA or subscription as reasonable as we can ensuring value for our customers and a reasonable profit for our company to expand and offer that continued value to our users. We cannot however predict future  economic pressures that may cause price increases in the short or long term but rest assured any price increase will only come as the economic environment dictates not from a need to pad our profits or decrease the value to our customers." Or something like that.

[lbuttery]

Are you saying that over 20 years you haven't recovered your investment in the software?

 

Joey:

 

the software HAD a re-sale value of $2,500 (approx.)

 

now it is ZERO

 

that is a loss I do NOT enjoy ...

 

Lew

[lbuttery]

bought my F150 based on resale

 

and now if Ford said you could NOT sell that Ford or trade it in ???

 

Lew

[JasonTroye]

11 hours ago, ComputerMaster86 said:

I think this type of business model encourages a company to get lazy on rolling out updates and further developing software and making it better.  I despise AutoDesk for going down that road.

I guarantee that this will not happen.  The Developers at Chief Architect are the most dedicated, hard-working group I've ever worked with.  Every day they show up, roll up their sleeves, and work on features and fixes with the singular goal of making our users more successful. That's not going to change.

'Lazy' is not in our DNA.

[ComputerMaster86]

1 minute ago, JasonTroye said:

I guarantee that this will not happen.  The Developers at Chief Architect are the most dedicated, hard-working group I've ever worked with.  Every day they show up, roll up their sleeves, and work on features and fixes with the singular goal of making our users more successful. That's not going to change.

'Lazy' is not in our DNA.

I hope hope so.   I do wish you all at Chief Architect the best knowing we are facing interesting times.  Your software has really been  a blessing to me and my work at Michigan Dutch Barns.

[Joe_Carrick]

Lance,

 

I have had excellent experience with Jason and his team.  They are top notch.  Actually, I've had almost no problems with any of the CA people.  It's a great company to work with.

[HumbleChief]

37 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Lance,

 

I have had excellent experience with Jason and his team.  They are top notch.  Actually, I've had almost no problems with any of the CA people.  It's a great company to work with.

Same here and what might appear to be 'lazy' by the cynical among us as X15 misses its (as expected by users, but never agreed to) release date there will be calls of "Told ya so," but lazy I don't think will be the reason for any snafus that are sure to arise.

[Rashid_Garuba]

3 hours ago, HumbleChief said:

Ah, and finally the children with the down votes have decided to join the discussion.

I wish Chief would get rid of the voting nonsense.. This in not Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter..Every I see my wife spend her time upvoting on Instagram, I go nearly crazy. 

[Renerabbitt]

Revit Comparisons..
For those of you that compare this product to revit(aside from their other professional tools), I will be doing a live stream in the next few months in attempt to hit an 8 hour design and condoc with editorial grade renderings...yes, within 8 hours.
Revit is a joke for blue-collar residential, if you are comparing the two, then you are likely unaware of the various power users here and their associate youtube channels

[ValleyGuy]

3 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Revit Comparisons..
For those of you that compare this product to revit(aside from their other professional tools), I will be doing a live stream in the next few months in attempt to hit an 8 hour design and condoc with editorial grade renderings...yes, within 8 hours.
 

Hey Rene, sign me up. I have no interest in any other products but am super interested when you power users flex the strength of this program along with your incredible skills and years of experience. It definitely won't be a relaxed tutorial type video..... but I wouldn't watch a super car light 'em up to learn how to drive better either!