Chief Architect Software Licensing Changes Beginning January 10, 2023

[ChiefArchitect]

@plannedRITE, legacy rent-to-own customers (purchased a rental before Jan. 10), will be grandfathered into legacy licensing with renewable SSA.  This person will be able to renew SSA once the rental-to-own has been completed and receive SSA benefits, including free upgrades to a perpetual license.  If SSA is allowed to expire, subscription pricing will apply.

[SabGroup]

I have been researching other design software and this is the pricing I have come up with so far.

Revit LT

     $45.35/mo

     $347.68/year

     $992.67/3 years

 

Revit

     $236.68/mo

     $1878.34/year

     $5352.91/3 years

 

Archicad Solo Subscription $118.44/mo

Archicad Subscription $237.89/mo

 

Also, by comparison, this is the most expensive design package listed on Autodesk's website.

Autodesk Architecture, Engineering, & Construction Collection $2,303/year

includes Revit, Civil 3d, AutoCAD, InfraWorks, Navisworks Manage.

 

I am outside of the United States, so these prices are converted to USD and your prices may vary.

[plannedRITE]

4 minutes ago, ChiefArchitect said:

@plannedRITE, legacy rent-to-own customers (purchased a rental before Jan. 10), will be grandfathered into legacy licensing with renewable SSA.  This person will be able to renew SSA once the rental-to-own has been completed and receive SSA benefits, including free upgrades to a perpetual license.  If SSA is allowed to expire, subscription pricing will apply.

Thank you, that is the answer that I was looking for.

Hope to see more information moving forward to show in what way the consumer will benefit from this billing shift.

[rgardner]

1 hour ago, plannedRITE said:

Additional question: one of my draftsman has been using the rent to own option to have his own license. He is only about 6 months in. So when he finishes the 2 years and owns the perpetual license  (X16 at that time, I'm assuming) what happens with SSA? Will he be able to pay the annual $595 a year to receive updates or be forced to pay the $2000 a year to keep his software current with mine so that we can actually work on plans together?

I need to know what will happen there so that I can decide if I need to fork over money for additional licenses this month.

This has been asked twice and answered by chief in this thread.

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, SabGroup said:

I have been researching other design software and this is the pricing I have come up with so far.

Revit LT

     $45.35/mo

     $347.68/year

     $992.67/3 years

 

Revit

     $236.68/mo

     $1878.34/year

     $5352.91/3 years

 

Archicad Solo Subscription $118.44/mo

Archicad Subscription $237.89/mo

 

Also, by comparison, this is the most expensive design package listed on Autodesk's website.

Autodesk Architecture, Engineering, & Construction Collection $2,303/year

includes Revit, Civil 3d, AutoCAD, InfraWorks, Navisworks Manage.

 

I am outside of the United States, so these prices are converted to USD and your prices may vary.

The price research is much appreciated but those are apples and Chief is oranges. I have absolutely no use for Revit or ArchiCad or AutoCAD as my business is focused on small residential remodels and the occasional new home. I simply wouldn't use Revit or any of the others shown even if they were free.

 

Doesn't make any of the programs bad but one has to know and understand their business niche as Chief does, and has over the years. Will new users who are focused on small residential remodels understand that Chief might be a better choice than otherCAD?

 

No way to know, but that's the concern of the higher ups in Chief and for some reason, even though the demise of Chief has been predicted many times on this forum (not in this thread so much) because they aren't Revit et al and should gear the software towards bigger more commercial projects, they, as have I, stayed focused on the market niche they are best at and continue as a going concern.

 

I'll give this news 3 months tops before the hubbub dies and we all get back to work and wishing you all the best and success no matter your choices.

[mthd97]

4 hours ago, birneyd said:

I have found CA very useful for visualization, but not very practical for detailed structural design because it is simply too automatic and doesn't deal well with unique structure designs. For example, our house uses drop trusses for 2nd and 3rd floors and Chief insisted (at least at the time) on using rim joists. 

This can prove true but if we were able to remove the automatic modular functions of Chief then it would slow it down. So there is a trade off and sometimes you just need to do the extra work and model a floor truss and copy it through your design.

 

I think it would be great if Chief Architect would do 3D model transfer or sharing with the leading timber framing manufacturing companies in the US that also engineer the framing structure. That way we could import the work back into CA in 3D.

 

I think it could be a bit too much to ask CA to become full 3D BIM with other leading CAD software out there. But what I am asking above wouldn’t be too much to ask I hope ?

 

Anyway, a subscription option is the new reality. And I think we should all be thankful that SSA is not redundant and may never be so ?

 

If you are in the US and you do many residential houses then it could be a no brainer to not keep SSA active or upgrade ? Everyone will have to make their own decision according to their own business model.

[Statewide]

I am Greatly disappointed in this!  I have been a user since 1997 (Chief 97)

I upgraded from every other year to every few years.  I was doing fine with Chief V9.54 but when I had to leave Windows XP and go to Windows 10 Chief V9.54 wouldn't work so that forced me to X11 (Which I will say has been a mostly nice upgrade). But very costly upgrade.

 

I am a general contractor and draw my projects from small project shop drawings to permitted house plans with as many as 6 or 7 pages.  I just need to create permittable drawings, and give the customer some basic 3D views of what the project will look like, I'm not trying to win any art shows.  Now I am going to be forced to pay $600 a year and achieve no greater benefit!  Will be even worse when the economy tanks and there's nothing to draw and still have to pay out that $600 a year!

 

It seems similar to some of these companies that turnout products that won't last half as long as they used to so you have to buy a new one.

What happened to the days when you could buy something and it last a long time.  Now they try to keep you on the hook so they keep getting money from you!  To heck with this subscription crap!

 

 

[Joe_Carrick]

28 minutes ago, Statewide said:

Now I am going to be forced to pay $600 a year and achieve no greater benefit! 

I don't think that's correct.  If you want to stay with X11 you can - without SSA.  Your software will continue to function just as it has.  You only need to pay for SSA if you want to continue to get support and automatic upgrades.  If that's what you want, don't let SSA lapse.  Otherwise you have X11 and its essentially yours to use.

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, Statewide said:

It seems similar to some of these companies that turnout products that won't last half as long as they used to so you have to buy a new one.

What happened to the days when you could buy something and it last a long time.

I get the frustration but the analogy is flawed and points out the problem with software businesses. Unlike other hard goods like cars and washing machines that eventually wear out and need to be replaced, software doesn't only last a long time but sometimes, and in your case perhaps, it lasts forever.

 

Maybe there will be a change in operating systems or something that will force an upgrade but your copy of X11 (as well as others' copies of X12, X13, and X14) will never wear out and never need replacing so software companies never realize the revenue from legacy products that really never wear out and never need to be replaced.

 

Not saying anyone should be happy with the change but the reality of the software business leaves those companies with few options to maintain a revenue stream. I've got X14 and will pay the $600 (and certainly to go up) SSA fee when it comes due in June and be sure to include that cost in the cost of running my business.

[BFogarty]

2 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

I don't think that's correct.  If you want to stay with X11 you can - without SSA.  Your software will continue to function just as it has.  You only need to pay for SSA if you want to continue to get support and automatic upgrades.  If that's what you want, don't let SSA lapse.  Otherwise you have X11 and its essentially yours to use.

 

Sorry if this was answered, I did not see it.

 

What if one is current with their SSA on X14, stays current on SSA for lets say 3 more versions to "X17" and decide you are done.  Do you walk away with still being able to use X17, or do you have to go back to X14?

[lbuttery]

you have X11 and its essentially yours to use.

 

Joe:

 

yeah, for awhile until you need a new PC and Win 2025 is the newest OS 

and Chief X11 won't work on it 

 

then what ???

 

Lew

[HumbleChief]

7 hours ago, lbuttery said:

you have X11 and its essentially yours to use.

 

Joe:

 

yeah, for awhile until you need a new PC and Win 2025 is the newest OS 

and Chief X11 won't work on it 

 

then what ???

Then you reevaluate the business and consider the amount of business done currently and the amount of business forecast for the future and the cost of the software needed to keep doing business. If you can't (don't want to) afford the cost of the software needed to do your business then you might be in the wrong business. One could even set aside a special small business account (a sinking fund) with a meager deposit of $50 a month which would cover the cost of the current yearly SSA fees. If the business cannot set aside $50 a month then that business is probably not a viable business as currently structured.

[rgardner]

8 hours ago, lbuttery said:

you have X11 and its essentially yours to use.

 

Joe:

 

yeah, for awhile until you need a new PC and Win 2025 is the newest OS 

and Chief X11 won't work on it 

 

then what ???

 

Lew

So what is the difference to any other older program that is no longer being supported when it get's phased out because Windows or Mac decides to change their OS and it no longer works?  Same circumstances really. 

 

I am not a fan of the new system either but I also use chief professionally so $595 a year for support (which I don't generally use), and the opportunity to keep current with the latest work is literally 4.5 hours of work per year to pay for it...  Keep current and no issues.  Chief's intention is not to phase out older users.  It's to make up for the lack of revenue that all of the users who now do not stay current on their ssa and help defray a portion of the development costs.  If not enough users are helping with that cost then its either they change their system to stay current/relevant or die.  I love chief and make a good living using it as my #1 tool.  I want to see them succeed as well as help me to be more efficient each year as well as has been the case.  It's nothing new to change your business model and pricing model.  Heck I gave two price increases this past year due to the rapid inflation costs.  Am I happy about it, No, but I see it as a great show of respect that they are keeping SSA to the current price for those loyal users for the foreseeable future.  

[HumbleChief]

19 minutes ago, rgardner said:

...but I see it as a great show of respect that they are keeping SSA to the current price for those loyal users for the foreseeable future.  

Agree...

[lbuttery]

Ryan and Larry:

 

the point is you were using X11

 

with the new license policy you can't catch up to the newest version like we can now 

and then keep up with SSA

 

you would be forced to pay $200/month

 

currently you could go on Ebay and buy a newer license that would work on win 2025

but after Jan 10 that won't be possible

 

nothing sold on Ebay will work anymore ...

 

Lew

 

[HumbleChief]

34 minutes ago, lbuttery said:

Ryan and Larry:

 

the point is you were using X11

 

with the new license policy you can't catch up to the newest version like we can now 

and then keep up with SSA

 

you would be forced to pay $200/month

 

currently you could go on Ebay and buy a newer license that would work on win 2025

but after Jan 10 that won't be possible

 

nothing sold on Ebay will work anymore ...

 

Lew

 

The point is that a business should be designed to include the cost of the tools required to perform that business.

[Doug_N]

For those of you that have been comparing CA to Revit Lt, isn't this sort of comparing a wrench to a pair of pliers?  They both are tools to get a job done, and they will both do somewhat similar things, but here is a list of some (picked by me) features side by side and a cost comparison. I only did the comparison for Revit Lt.   If you are on a apple, forget Revit or any AutoCAD product.  Apple is not supported.

 

 

Here is a link to the US Revit site to do your own investigation https://www.autodesk.com/products/revit/compare

 

Dec 7, 2022
Comparison of CA and Revit Lt
	CA	Revit Lt
Import Files
PDF	X
Dwg	X	X
Images	X	X
Sketchup	X
Point Cloud
Features
Lighting	X
Rendering	X
Schedules	X
Customize Visibility	X
Macros	X
Catalogs	X
Blocks Systems	X	X
MS Windows	X	X
Apple OS	X
Create 2D Dwgs	X	X
Export PDF	X
Revision Notation	X	X
Revision Tracking		X
Dimensions	X	X
Annotation	X	X
Phasing	X	X
Material Takeoff	X	X
Lighting Analysis	X
Column Schedules
Framing	X
Trusses	X
View Filters	X
Layer Control	X	X

[Chrisb222]

I'll offer a couple of more comments.

 

For me personally, should I opt out of SSA at some point I'll simply keep an older system running, to avoid OS obsolescence. I've done it before with other software.

 

As a "spotty" user, I would also consider the pop-in / pop-out option of off-and-on rental. That seems like a very reasonable option for spotty users like myself, including new users. 

 

If I were a full time designer and used Chief for my livelihood, maintaining legacy SSA wouldn't even be a decision- it would be automatic, and paid happily. New full time users will simply have to compare their options and make their own decisions. I'm happy that I'm a legacy user with ownership options.

 

Finally- kudos to @ChiefArchitect for allowing this thread to stay open and for your customers to be allowed to air our thoughts. It's a "big" company that would do so. I have to confess that if I were you, most of these posts would get the "delete" button.

[Renerabbitt]

This decision will benefit me from the development of long awaited feature requests through dependable budgeting for Chief.
This decision will benefit me by thinning my low-budget, undercutting, competition on contract work.

Historical data shows me I am 500% faster than I was in X8...I have reaped benefits through increased margin for years...I don't love financial change, but a bit of pragmatism and a quick glance at your books should sit ones head back on straight.

Also...a good CPA should get you lined up and straightened out

 

[Bondbuilding]

1 hour ago, Doug_N said:

For those of you that have been comparing CA to Revit Lt, isn't this sort of comparing a wrench to a pair of pliers?  They both are tools to get a job done, and they will both do somewhat similar things, but here is a list of some (picked by me) features side by side and a cost comparison. I only did the comparison for Revit Lt.   If you are on a apple, forget Revit or any AutoCAD product.  Apple is not supported.

 

 

Here is a link to the US Revit site to do your own investigation https://www.autodesk.com/products/revit/compare

 

Dec 7, 2022
Comparison of CA and Revit Lt
	CA	Revit Lt
Import Files
PDF	X
Dwg	X	X
Images	X	X
Sketchup	X
Point Cloud
Features
Lighting	X
Rendering	X
Schedules	X
Customize Visibility	X
Macros	X
Catalogs	X
Blocks Systems	X	X
MS Windows	X	X
Apple OS	X
Create 2D Dwgs	X	X
Export PDF	X
Revision Notation	X	X
Revision Tracking		X
Dimensions	X	X
Annotation	X	X
Phasing	X	X
Material Takeoff	X	X
Lighting Analysis	X
Column Schedules
Framing	X
Trusses	X
View Filters	X
Layer Control	X	X

I have never used Revit...and never would.  I would imagine most of the people on this thread have never used Chief Home Designer Pro because you are on another level, but HDPro seems to do pretty close to what that Revit feature list shows and maybe more.  My brother uses HDPro which is why I have interacted with it.  It's works exactly like Chief X series except it is thinned down of features. I think if you are going to start making comparisons or jumping ship you should consider Home Designer Pro. 

The big things HDPro doesn't do that a contractor type user would miss are: lack of saved and preprogrammed "show items" views, it only does 5 Layout pages, and you can't change scale or modify sent views in the Layout....and ...some other things if you drill into it. You can definitely make a set of plans with it, and you can make "views" (they are just not preprogrammed} You can work around the Layout pages and make 2 different Layout files for the same plan if you need more pages.  These are efficiency hassles that would not work for someone designing for hire but are work arounds for a casual or contractor user. 

 

I personally don't use a lot of the specific and 3D and framing allocations and diagrams on Chief Architect, preferring to just 2D label them (<------14" floor trusses @ 16" OC----->...etc)   So it would almost work for me.  If I was new to the business, I would probably come on board with HDPro and muddle through..but I have about 100 plans 25 years back that exist in the real world and want to make sure I can access them in the future. The past Better Homes and Gardens, and past consumer versions of the program, did not do Layout and HDPro only did 1 page previously...(but now does 5) so that was not a reasonable option for a professional.

It's a little bit of a conundrum what to do going forward if you already use CA or have a large portfolio. If you have been driving a Corvette, it's hard to go back to a Corolla. HDPro would never open a legacy CA file unless only to view, so you could never modify old files. But if you use HDPro it will convert and upgrade the file to CA in the future,

  

Home Designer Pro is a hell of a deal for $600 though for a remodeler and sometimes "full home" builder.   

In my world something half-way between HDpro and X14 that opens legacy files would be perfect, but I don't expect that to happen. 

[Bondbuilding]

20 minutes ago, Bondbuilding said:

I have never used Revit...and never would.  I would imagine most of the people on this thread have never used Chief Home Designer Pro because you are on another level, but HDPro seems to do pretty close to what that Revit feature list shows and maybe more.  My brother uses HDPro which is why I have interacted with it.  It's works exactly like Chief X series except it is thinned down of features. I think if you are going to start making comparisons or jumping ship you should consider Home Designer Pro. 

The big things HDPro doesn't do that a contractor type user would miss are: lack of saved and preprogrammed "show items" views, it only does 5 Layout pages, and you can't change scale or modify sent views in the Layout....and ...some other things if you drill into it. You can definitely make a set of plans with it, and you can make "views" (they are just not preprogrammed} You can work around the Layout pages and make 2 different Layout files for the same plan if you need more pages.  These are efficiency hassles that would not work for someone designing for hire but are work arounds for a casual or contractor user. 

 

I personally don't use a lot of the specific and 3D and framing allocations and diagrams on Chief Architect, preferring to just 2D label them (<------14" floor trusses @ 16" OC----->...etc)   So it would almost work for me.  If I was new to the business, I would probably come on board with HDPro and muddle through..but I have about 100 plans 25 years back that exist in the real world and want to make sure I can access them in the future. The past Better Homes and Gardens, and past consumer versions of the program, did not do Layout and HDPro only did 1 page previously...(but now does 5) so that was not a reasonable option for a professional.

It's a little bit of a conundrum what to do going forward if you already use CA or have a large portfolio. If you have been driving a Corvette, it's hard to go back to a Corolla. HDPro would never open a legacy CA file unless only to view, so you could never modify old files. But if you use HDPro it will convert and upgrade the file to CA in the future,

  

Home Designer Pro is a hell of a deal for $600 though for a remodeler and sometimes "full home" builder.   

In my world something half-way between HDpro and X14 that opens legacy files would be perfect, but I don't expect that to happen. 

Another big drawback is HDPro only does a 18"x24" Layout page!  Big houses at 1/4 don't fit   

[rgardner]

2 hours ago, lbuttery said:

you were using X11

That very point adds to my point regarding lack of revenue to chief by users who do not help with future development and thus should not reap benefits from it if they are not willing to keep SSA valid for $50 a month...

 

2 hours ago, lbuttery said:

currently you could go on Ebay and buy a newer license that would work on win 2025

but after Jan 10 that won't be possible

These are pirated versions as it is and is again part of the issue.

[lbuttery]

The point is that a business should be designed to include the cost of the tools required to perform that business.

 

there is many a low-level business that can't afford $200/month

 

Lew

 

[lbuttery]

These are pirated versions

 

No, they are legitimate versions

 

some are pirated - but many are legitimate

 

Lew

[Smn842]

2 hours ago, rgardner said:

but I see it as a great show of respect that they are keeping SSA to the current price for those loyal users for the foreseeable future.  

 

Where have I missed the statement about this?

 

I asked CA directly and was told they couldn't make any statement about SSA pricing levels in future.

 

I've paid for SSA ever since I upgraded from HD Pro to Chief Premier X9 but as a home user not making any profit (or savings) from using Chief my only concern with the new licensing is if SSA pricing rapidly moving towards the subscription cost.