Been away for a while, but working in Chief every day. Question for those out there making a living [upgardes]

VisualDandD

By VisualDandD,
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VisualDandD

VisualDandD

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So some background.  I have been working in chief since 1998.   For the past 11 years, I have been designing full time and stay quite busy.   I Pay my SSA every year like a good boy, but became frustrated at the direction Chief has taken.   (trying to become a rendering software instead of gearing itself to fixing long problems with the work flow of producing working drawings). 


PBR was the biggest waste of time and I felt like they were going even more for the 'flash'.


Again, I paid my SSA...but it is almost expiring and find that I have never even loaded up X12.  (srs).   I run X11 every day.   For the clients that want renderings, I use Lumion or I have played with Twinmotion which I have a license also. 

 

Now I log on forum for first time in many months, and see people complaining about the real time ray tracing.  I see pics that look worse the renderings I did 4 years ago in Lumion...etc.   



So what is the verdict.  Has X12 been worth it?   Do you have any hope for X13?   Or is still the same crap that has been slung around here for years.  The die-hards asking for functional stair tools, and Chief posting pretty pictures.


Guess at some point I should upload X12...  But with my SSA coming up, wonding if I am so unexcited about a update that I pay for it and dont install it, if it is even worth is since the complaints seem the same.

 

I should add, because I never installed X12, I never updated my box.  With the 3080 card we got, I built my son a great gaming pc and I am still drawing with a 970 graphics cars.   


But we have a really cool sim ;)  That 3080 smokes running 3 monitors at 144hz! 

 

 

J4y8uwg.jpg

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Chopsaw

Chopsaw

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It looks as though you will have difficulty getting that 3080 back from your son.  So you won't be able to take advantage of the latest rendering engine in X13.  However there are lots of improvements in X12 that you will be able to take advantage of and it will keep you current.

 

There are some major changes in Ruby for X12 so you will need to read up on that if you use a lot of macro's.

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VisualDandD

VisualDandD

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Thanks for feedback.   Just frankly was so busy this past year, I did not even have time to dealing with the update and never did it.  (not a bad problem to have).

 

I will take your word for it.   The interesting part of this whole thing is I finally have a long time client who wants rendering.   I am torn which direction to go.   I upgraded my Twinmotion last night and it seems very powerful but even though I am 4 updates back on Lumion, I can get to a finished product the quickest with it.


The one thing I LOVE about Lumion is the ability to 'soften' edges of materials.   In my opinion, it is one of the things that is the hardest to overcome in rendering interiors.  Exteriors it is not as big an issue.

 

Lumion also can on the fly create height maps from image. (which is passable most of the time)   Twinmotion, you have to take it out of the software and do it.  I have never taken the time to do it and build a good library.

 

Has Chief improved their ability with siding depth/textures.  Board and batten,,,etc or are you still having to use material regions/poly line solids...etc?

 

Last thing I need to figure out is what to upgrade my box to.  Normally I build my PC's but when the time came to build my son a PC, with the GPU shortage, it was much easier just to buy the box.

 

Hope all has been well for you guys and I need to hang out more and get out of the grind and bring my game up a little more.   I bought an oculus and never played much with it.  Except Twinmotion which works nicely.

 

 

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Kbird1

Kbird1

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I would definitely do the upgrade to x12 even with the 970 it will be fine, ( and it's paid for )  but X13 has numerous "little" issues for me but thankfully not many crashes, however CA is getting more expensive all the time and SSA is still the cheapest way to stay current, get a few years behind and it is a major reinvestment.

 

Buying a complete System is still the "cheapest" way to get another 3080/3080Ti , MarkMc got his new(ish) Desktop from AXA Direct and is happy with them....

 

https://www.avadirect.com/

 

M.  

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VisualDandD

VisualDandD

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15 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

I would definitely do the upgrade to x12 even with the 970 it will be fine, ( and it's paid for )  but X13 has numerous "little" issues for me but thankfully not many crashes, however CA is getting more expensive all the time and SSA is still the cheapest way to stay current, get a few years behind and it is a major reinvestment.

 

Buying a complete System is still the "cheapest" way to get another 3080/3080Ti , MarkMc got his new(ish) Desktop from AXA Direct and is happy with them....

 

https://www.avadirect.com/

 

M.  


Thanks man!  I have already been looking at 'box' systems.   Was thinking 3080Ti might be the best bet possibly over 3090.   I just need to ask my son on that one ;)

 

Like I said, I FINLLY have one of my builders interested in VR...etc.  Stuff I have been playing with for years and no one has ever wanted me to do.   Also renderings as standard.


I have not used X12/13.  But for renderings, as of right now, the export to Lumion is the quickest with best results.  But if I am going VR, Twin Motion may be a better investment of time.   Just materials are easier to deal with in Lumion.     

 

I have a few things to sort out for sure, but my current box has lasted me a long time, but I dont mind investing in the future for sure.   

Thanks for all the feedback (and kick in the a$$).   

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Kbird1

Kbird1

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31 minutes ago, VisualDandD said:


Thanks man!  I have already been looking at 'box' systems.   Was thinking 3080Ti might be the best bet possibly over 3090.   I just need to ask my son on that one ;)

 

Like I said, I FINLLY have one of my builders interested in VR...etc.  Stuff I have been playing with for years and no one has ever wanted me to do.   Also renderings as standard.


I have not used X12/13.  But for renderings, as of right now, the export to Lumion is the quickest with best results.  But if I am going VR, Twin Motion may be a better investment of time.   Just materials are easier to deal with in Lumion.     

 

I have a few things to sort out for sure, but my current box has lasted me a long time, but I dont mind investing in the future for sure.   

Thanks for all the feedback (and kick in the a$$).   

 

I have a feeling you have the Budget :), so 3080Ti all the way especially looking to the Future......the 3090 is not worth the extra , at least in Chief, not sure about Lumion or TM or other programs you use....

 

M.

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VisualDandD

VisualDandD

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2 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I have a feeling you have the Budget :), so 3080Ti all the way especially looking to the Future......the 3090 is not worth the extra , at least in Chief, not sure about Lumion or TM or other programs you use....

 

M.

 

Budgets are all relative my friend ;)  For sure though!   I am a cost/value person.  If a 6k box made me 2x faster than 3k one, I have no issue with spending the money on it.   My (gamer) son told me to go with the 3080Ti.  But he comes at stuff from gaming.  As a 14yo, he has kept up a lot more with computers than I have!

 

1 hour ago, Renerabbitt said:

TM has realtime raytrace with the intel denoiser now btw, including in video.

I see that in TM but I cant use it currently.  I have spent the day playing with TM and finding I might be able to match work-flow w/ lumion.  I started doing material files and took the textured out of chief and made normal maps for them...etc.   It is not bad, just one extra step you dont have to do in Lumion.

 

Still messing with grass to get what I want in TM.   These are just regular exports not the RT.

 

 

 

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Image11.png

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Kbird1

Kbird1

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8 minutes ago, VisualDandD said:

Budgets are all relative my friend ;)  For sure though! 

 

True, like you I always look at value and usually buy 2nd (or 3rd) tier to save $$$ without sacrificing too much

 

For sure , these days you likely want to look at a 12th gen CPU ( eg 12700K ) and a Z690 Motherboard for PCIe 5.0 all which will push the budget, and a 2TB NVME 4.0 SSD, but for futureproofing and perhaps getting 5 yrs out of it probably worth it.

 

M.

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VisualDandD

VisualDandD

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4 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

True, like you I always look at value and usually buy 2nd (or 3rd) tier to save $$$ without sacrificing too much

 

For sure , these days you likely want to look at a 12th gen CPU ( eg 12700K ) and a Z690 Motherboard for PCIe 5.0 all which will push the budget, and a 2TB NVME 4.0 SSD, but for futureproofing and perhaps getting 5 yrs out of it probably worth it.

 

M.

  Very interesting.  I had not thought much about processor since it always seemed w/ Chief it was heavily GPU based.   I mean, I never skimped, but I was never as worried about the CPU being the latest and greatest, but rather the GPU.


Looks like I need to start researching on CPU also.   I saw the whole PCIe stuff changing when I was going to build a PC for my son.  Man....lots to catch up on!

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VisualDandD

VisualDandD

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3 hours ago, robdyck said:

I haven't used TM in awhile, but here's a couple of images done in X13. Somehow squeezed these out in between the 40 crashes per day.

 

 

 

Renderings look nice.  Board and batten, is that manually done w/ material region or PLS?

 

Only flaw where Lumion has a BIG edge on the interior is in lumion you can soften edges (like on the countertop) and those subtle things do a lot to take away the 'computer' look.  Fantastic otherwise.

 

Scaring the hell out of me with the crashes though ;)

 

 

I messed w/ twin motion this morning and did this.  I really like this manner of presentation.

 

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VisualDandD

VisualDandD

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32 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

X13 does have Clay View now ...but then you have too use X13  :) ........... that new 3080Ti will help  I am sure....

I need to check it out!


Question for the tech guys.  For real time ray tracing, will the 3080Ti be better than the 3090?    My son also said the 3090Ti is slated to drop 3rd week in Jan.    Might be worth the wait?...

 

I "borrowed" my sons 3070 box and did these renderings on TM.  Took about 1:30 per picture full settings maxed out.  Same model as above crappy pics ;)


The RTX is AMAZING and super easy to use.

 

I started running a vid, but a 30 second clip (maxed out settings) was going to take a few hours so I cancelled it..   Will run overnight.

 

 

Image11.png

Image6.png

Image14.png

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Kbird1

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10 minutes ago, VisualDandD said:

For real time ray tracing, will the 3080Ti be better than the 3090?

 

From what I have read , depending on the Program/Game the 3080Ti is within 5-10% of the 3090 and quite a bit Cheaper even though the 3080Ti

is quite a step-up $$$ wise over a 3080, looks like you are doing okay on a 3070 though..... and a 3080 is likely best bang for the buck currently.

 

The 3090Ti is still all rumors at the moment , no real world tests I've read about and I assume the cost will be through the roof ...IF you can get one.....

 

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VisualDandD

VisualDandD

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I have zero issue spending money on performance.   I am guessing that getting a 3090ti is probably most likely though one of the big PC builders like Cyberpower...etc.   I generally buy the fastest or very close when I switch up and it seems to be the best route as I end up getting a lot of usefulness out of my rigs.   I will probably go 3080ti or even 3090, but I almost want to wait to see the new specs of the 3090ti. ;)   


Thank you SO much for the practical responses.  I have not kept up with any of this stuff for some time.  MUCH appreciated!


I ran a totally bare bone, no texture interior rendering with about 6 lights and the lighting is stunning.  Excuse the lack of detail as it was just an experiment.

 

I have been messing with renderings going back to the old Pov Ray stuff in chief.  But this actually makes it practical.   I will be interested to see how it works in Chief.  Current box wont run it of course.

 

I have now put a few days in TwinMotion.   Not a bad interface, and I can picture how I could improve my workflows...etc.  Time will tell on that one.


With TM, I was 100% maxing GPU and 3% cpu, so this will all be a card driven limit.

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HumbleChief

HumbleChief

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Maybe not exactly on topic but Chief is currently running a software sale which usually presages a new release (X14) and was wondering what changes might be in store as far as video performance/requirements etc. Will the lower priced/spec'd cards work better in X14? Pure speculation of course and just wondering before upgrading my current card.

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Kbird1

Kbird1

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4 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Maybe not exactly on topic but Chief is currently running a software sale which usually presages a new release (X14) and was wondering what changes might be in store as far as video performance/requirements etc. Will the lower priced/spec'd cards work better in X14? Pure speculation of course and just wondering before upgrading my current card.

 

I believe it is just CA Annual 10% Xmas Sale -- but extended, it is usually on the week between Xmas and New Year I think..... preelude to the full price increase in the NY ,($3300) no doubt.

 

M.

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HumbleChief

HumbleChief

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1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I believe it is just CA Annual 10% Xmas Sale -- but extended, it is usually on the week between Xmas and New Year I think..... preelude to the full price increase in the NY ,($3300) no doubt.

 

M.

Probably true enough but also close enough to the release of X14 for me at least to wait and see.

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