Considering Chief Architect

[ragetoca]

Hi Raul, I use both Chief and ArchiCAD.

My view is you only load the apps you need to get the Job done.

Many use Chief and other 2d Cad tools together, I dont use Autocad but I see the many benefits of it.

I would use Chief for 3d presentations for cookie cutter homes or project homes.

It would be very easy to export a dwg file from Cheif and send it into Autocad to finish off while you are learning the ropes, I dont need any 2d cad programs to get the job done in Chief.

I would say Chief is a very good fit for your company and not that hard to learn either for the younger generation cad operators since you are based in the US, Chief was specifically made for the US style homes.

Give a good test run before you make your decision.

You havent told us what apps you use for material take off or cost estimating and if you are intending to use Chief for this as well?

 

We have an "in-house" estimating department who use "Marks System" for estimates and budgets. I called CA and they gave me a 30 day fully functional trial - I plan to build one of our standard houses and will present it to ownership in the next few weeks, I will need some help from this forum.

 

[dshall]

I would highly highly recommend hiring an instructor. Not just any instructor, but someone who does production work.

I am presently working with a client and he wants to learn the program. He is paying me to shadow him while he draws the plans.

Suppose it costs him 4000 to have me shadow him. ( let's go with high number), I guarantee you that is the best 4000.00 he ever spent. That 4000.00 comes with 9 years of experience knocking about with this program.

I am not looking for the work, just saying if you have a big outfit, you cannot afford to learn by trial and error.

In fact you may go through a couple of instructors who specialize I. Different aspects.

[HumbleChief]

Well I'm in my second month with CA so I look forward to the day when I can do that in CA.

 

The sections and details are quite easy in ACAD as I use LISP & dynamic blocks for lots of things.

And the Stretch command in ACAD is very easy. So changes are quick for me. In CA all cleanup efforts are lost when changing to a revised section.

 

I haven't found Web trusses and can't seem to figure out Drop ceilings but time will tell.

The issue I see with sections is that 3D to 2D leaves a lot of clean up requirements but that may be me too.

Webbed floor trusses are part of Chief's basic tool kit, just set the floor joist depth to the depth of the truss you want, but I couldn't find a way to pitch them for a roof structure. That would be a good question for the forum.

 

Do a google search for dropped ceilings https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=suspended%20ceiling%20chief%20architect quite a few articles, and there's a training video too #311 show one method.

 

"In CA all cleanup efforts are lost when changing to a revised section"

 

For me this was the hardest transition - working with 'live' sections. Once the model is built correctly (this is by far the most difficult part of Chief) the 'live' sections change with each change to the plan, no revisions are lost you just move annotation if needed and the sections can include any CAD detail you choose.

[Richard_Morrison]

I agree with Todd's assessment, generally. Chief is definitely the best for fairly conventional residential construction. Cabinets are outstanding. Where the problem occurs is if you start trying to do "finicky" or non-standard construction. Modeling then becomes a nightmare trying to get it exactly right. So you end up doing "good enough" modeling, and trying to describe these areas with 2D details. Tilted walls with windows -- forget it in Chief.  (Not something that most people do, though.) Trying to do extremely accurate terrain modeling makes me tear my hair out. If you've spent time with ArchiCAD, the missing tools (both CAD and 3D) are felt. If you haven't, then you will be very happy with Chief.

[DRAWZILLA]

Well I'm in my second month with CA so I look forward to the day when I can do that in CA.

 

The sections and details are quite easy in ACAD as I use LISP & dynamic blocks for lots of things.

And the Stretch command in ACAD is very easy. So changes are quick for me. In CA all cleanup efforts are lost when changing to a revised section.

 

I haven't found Web trusses and can't seem to figure out Drop ceilings but time will tell.

The issue I see with sections is that 3D to 2D leaves a lot of clean up requirements but that may be me too.

 All these thing are workable in Chief, but its not automatic.

Remember the better your model is the easier it is to cut the sections and elevations without cleaning up any mess so spend extra time to get the model clean.

If you do have some cleanup, do it in the view you send to layout, and not the layout itself, then when you have changes they will stay put.

 

For me, some foundations give me some trouble but by doing an auto detail, that will give me a p-line that I can then manipulate and get the foundation correct, and it stays put. If you added a new footing to that plan just change the p-line to what you need.

[ACADuser]

Webbed floor trusses are part of Chief's basic tool kit, just set the floor joist depth to the depth of the truss you want, but I couldn't find a way to pitch them for a roof structure. That would be a good question for the forum.

 

Do a google search for dropped ceilings https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=suspended%20ceiling%20chief%20architect quite a few articles, and there's a training video too #311 show one method.

 

"In CA all cleanup efforts are lost when changing to a revised section"

 

For me this was the hardest transition - working with 'live' sections. Once the model is built correctly (this is by far the most difficult part of Chief) the 'live' sections change with each change to the plan, no revisions are lost you just move annotation if needed and the sections can include any CAD detail you choose.

 

 

 All these thing are workable in Chief, but its not automatic.

Remember the better your model is the easier it is to cut the sections and elevations without cleaning up any mess so spend extra time to get the model clean.

If you do have some cleanup, do it in the view you send to layout, and not the layout itself, then when you have changes they will stay put.

 

For me, some foundations give me some trouble but by doing an auto detail, that will give me a p-line that I can then manipulate and get the foundation correct, and it stays put. If you added a new footing to that plan just change the p-line to what you need.

Thanks Larry, the carpenter will have a good time with those trusses. The Architect insisted on them to save money.

I found a ceiling article but this project is in permitting so I won't spend any more time now. Too much on my plate.

 

I'm working on a three story town home & the inability to show half the stair in one floor & half from above is killing me.

 

 

Perry,

I agree, clean model improves elevations & sections but I still see lines that need to be deleted.

I'm learning as fast as my old brain will let me.

[dshall]

...... but I still see lines that need to be deleted.......

 

I say get over it,  I have.  I do my sections at 1/4" per ft.  The DETAILS take precedence.  I get the fact the sections are not perfect yet.  I have seen many  plans and the sections I do are much better that 80% of them.  In my mind the section is to show plate heights,  roof pitches and floor elevation changes.  They are not to show how the plywood shear connects to the top plates and sill plates.

 

I try not to get too wrapped up in a few extra lines.  I don't want them,  but I make allowances.

 

And quite frankly,  not too many people complain.

[Richard_Morrison]

I'm working on a three story town home & the inability to show half the stair in one floor & half from above is killing me.

One of the reasons to visit here is to learn what is realistic to do in Chief and what is not.

 

For multiple flights of stairs, it will be better to just draw them in 2D in the floor plan, and turn off the 3D stair layer. Chief can't produce decent 2D stair representations at this point.

[DRAWZILLA]

Perry,

I agree, clean model improves elevations & sections but I still see lines that need to be deleted.

I'm learning as fast as my old brain will let me.

 

Try cutting your sections with a back clipped section/ elevation. Also try to cut them as thin as you can making sure you clipped 1 joist so its included in the view. This will eliminate most of those lines for you. and if you still get some lines use a earth filled mask and adjust it front or back as needed. when you get it right the foundation will pop out  and background lines won't show.

[johnny]

Its not possible* IMO to have Chief be your entire backbone app. for production drawings in a mid/large firm.  Its so incredibly weak in 2D and general 3D shape modeling - compared to current generation CAD/BIM apps - that if you can't use one of the object tool-sets CA provides to create something you will often end up using Sketchup or some other app for that component.  I compare that to say Vectorworks which CAN be all a firm needs.

 

Glenn and Scott are masters of this app - but most people aren't going to get to their level of knowledge.  This app can be quirky, difficult to learn, and un-intuitive.  It can also be totally awesome for some projects, and can produce 3d interior/exterior residential models better/faster than any other app. i've seen/used.

 

Its a love-hate-love relationship.  It is worth the buy, but I will say it was hard for me to get my other draftsmen to learn CA.  You will do yourself a favor watching Scotts process for "fumbling" around to get answers (see his videos) - since learning what not to do is nearly as important as learning what to do. (fyi that is a compliment to Scott)

 

 

* I obviously know if you kept the spectrum of design down to a point, CA would work for everything - its possible - but I can say that in what I do it would be impossible to have CA handle all our work....and I know many on this forum use other apps to complete work due to CA limitations.

[DRAWZILLA]

Glenn and Scott are masters of this app - but most people aren't going to get to their level of knowledge.

 

I disagree, you can get to any level you want if you take the time to do it.

[johnny]

I disagree, you can get to any level you want if you take the time to do it.

 

I wasn't implying someone couldn't get to that level - just that most won't.

[Richard_Morrison]

Its a love-hate-love relationship.

 Yes, it is. But Chief's ease of use in some areas has made it a love-hate relationship with the other software, too. It's like having a wife and a mistress at the same time. And I think I may be getting too old for that.

[ragetoca]

Thank you all for the comments, some of those comments have answered questions I have but others have raised some doubts about CA      - I guess I won't really know until I make the switch.....

How would you describe CA's overall responsiveness to user's requests? Are the updates signifcant improvements? When is X7 supposed to be released?

 

Thx

 

Rt

[lbuttery]

CA can be responsive

 

IF they get a significant # of requests/complaints about a feature to be added or fixed

 

bugs usually get fixed sooner than features

 

 

CA also states they have a backlog database of 4000+ items to be worked on - maybe

 

an individual request is probably going to go to the back of the line

 

there are many requests that have been around for a decade or so

 

each release has lots of new features and fixes

but it is never "enough" and we all start asking for our favorites again

 

X7 is "anticipated" around Feb 2015

 

CA has been trying to get to an annual cycle focused on the home show

and they achieved that goal with X6

 

can they continue ???

 

Lew

[KilgoreTrout]

"How would you describe CA's overall responsiveness to user's requests?"

 

Depends on who you ask.  Some people might say no because specific things they asked for haven't been done.  I think they try to be responsive but they have a pretty big backlog of requests.

 

"Are the updates significant improvements?"

 

Check out the "what's new in X6" list for some of the details.

 

http://cloud.chiefarchitect.com/1/pdf/marketing/x6-new-features.pdf

[4hotshoez]

The sales department probably hates this thread as we tend to be a bit more open than they. The remarks here are honest and from experience and most users have a strong background in other cad programs, which is a testimony to their choice. Only a few use Chief only. The rest of us love Chief, but find it necessary to supplement with other 2D or 3D apps depending on what we do or know. Plunging into Chief should not mean forsaking what you know, but what you know and have on hand can also handicap your learning Chief when in a pinch.

[johnny]

 Yes, it is. But Chief's ease of use in some areas has made it a love-hate relationship with the other software, too. It's like having a wife and a mistress at the same time. And I think I may be getting too old for that.

 

Totally agree!!  I am amazed that:

 

1. Chief makes certain residential 3d so simple I'm shocked other apps haven't looked to duplicate, and

2. Chief doesn't seem willing to add functionality in 2D and 3D shape modeling which could make this app truly sing.

 

Both those items make no sense to me - so wife and mistress it is.

[ragetoca]

Sounds a lot like Autocad Architecture, in my opinion, the best 2D/3D software there is, but at the same time, it has little if not, NO tools for residential design, it has a few usable tools that have not seen any updates since version 3.3, 15 years ago.......If Autodesk had not bought Revit, ACA would have become an amazing software 
 

[mthd97]

We have an "in-house" estimating department who use "Marks System" for estimates and budgets. I called CA and they gave me a 30 day fully functional trial - I plan to build one of our standard houses and will present it to ownership in the next few weeks, I will need some help from this forum.

Raul thanks for that, In have not heard of that estimating app before?

Let us know how your evaluation is proceeding.

You will get lots of help from the guys here.

[HumbleChief]

This thread has been a really great read. Thanks for the thought and ideas from everyone - very insightful.

[Fun2Learn]

I've been reading this discussion with a bit of "deja vu",  as I was asking a similar question about a year ago as I was researching which CAD program I should invest in.  One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the instant "wow" factor (from clients and potential clients) that you can get with the 3-D in Chief. 

    To illustrate my point, here is a little story of what finally convinced me to buy Chief:

This past summer, one of the design bloggers I follow mentioned wanting to add a new porch to her rather humble home and she had photo-shopped a picture of a porch onto a photo of her house but wasn't happy with the results. She asked if there were any architects or contractors out there who had any ideas how to improve it. I saw instantly what could be done to greatly improve the design, and since I was trying to learn how to use  the free trial of Chief anyway, I used it to sketch it up several ideas. (I had to learn how to do roofs and other things as I went along!)  It was done rather quickly, and I then  sent some screen captures to the design blogger and she posted them online. The designer was ecstatic about the results and so were most of her readers; she got over  three hundred enthusiastic, positive responses posted about them that day (much more than usual.)  People were amazed at the 3-d images, as well as the basic transformation of the home they portrayed so clearly, praised what I had done, and some even asked for my contact information! My point is, that, in spite of being merely a novice with Chief , the average design- blog reader was very impressed with those 3-d images! 

  Think about how the "Property Brothers" use their wonderful 3-D images to convince people to buy a run-down old house ad let them fix it up! Try doing that with old 2-d autocad drawing--NOT!

I know that there are other 3-d programs out there, but for the price, Chief seems to have the biggest "bang for the buck" so to speak.

(FWIW--I tried the free trials of Revit (out of the box, definitely lacking in "wow" factor) and Softplan. I'm not sure why, but Softplan's 3-d (looking at their samples gallery) just didn't quite look as "wow" as Chief's either, though better than Revit's. )

Just my 2 Cents. 

[thorn-ecoc]

Your just wrong about Chief having no upgrades for many years. If you used Chief you will see that. Every year Chief has added features that simply save drawing time.  Enough said. That alone plus many other improvements is why I stay here and today , you couldn't pay me to change. I think its a case of you just not knowing what they do. Take the time to see for yourself, and learn about all Chief's tools, in depth. You will see.

I'm sure its just me, but after using CA for 20 years, I find that a lot of the added features with the updated versions actually cause drawing time to increase. The new versions have so many options and settings. I could have a floor plan, and rough roof done with the older versions in the same amount of time it takes me to just set up for a new structure now. This is with complex structures. Chief is for sure a great rendering program. Not so much for finished construction documents and details in my opinion. But....my clients just want reasonable priced plans for a building permit. They don't care nor do they want to pay to see where outlet switches, sprinkler bubblers or trash cans will be located.

[DRAWZILLA]

The extra features are very much needed b/c of all the custom details and models we need to draw. Not sure where you are from but here in California the building departments are brutal, framing is very important. Schedules need to include things that most of the country might not need now , but will in the future. we want these things.

[ebdesign]

That's right Perry. For instance, where garbage cans will be located. They wanna see it on the plans.