How to fix wall length Or lock the wall dimentions

[hamedDesighn]

How to fix wall length Or lock the wall dimention so they don't change .

i would be thankful if somebody help .

 

 

[joey_martin]

I see people asking for this, but I don't really understand the question. If your walls are moving, you are doing something to move them. 

 

Which wall are you trying to move?

 

I can honestly say I have never had this issue, and I have been using Chief for 15 years. 

[hamedDesighn]

1 hour ago, joey_martin said:

I see people asking for this, but I don't really understand the question. If your walls are moving, you are doing something to move them. 

  

Which wall are you trying to move?

 

I can honestly say I have never had this issue, and I have been using Chief for 15 years. 

That's because you're only using chief

so lets say , um , we just want a wall dimension to be locked , this is very simple , because in a very complex REAL WORLD map , we don't have square walls we have off angle walls we have stuff that controlling them is a little bit hard , and suddenly when an important wall dimension changes anything become destructed it could be better if it was able to do that , like other software , like solidWorks constraint dimension system 

[joey_martin]

You're right, I only use Chief. The way Solidworks or any other Autocrap do it is of no bearing to this software. If you want to adjust the angled wall(s), stop selecting the angled wall(s) and select the adjacent wall(s) moving around your plan counter-clockwise and when you get back to the beginning, everything will be as you want it.

[DzinEye]

One thing you could do which will help if you accidentally do not follow Joey's instruction on wall moving.  Draw a polyline that follows the proper outline of the walls and make it a bright color. If your walls move you'll see and be able to snap it back to the polyline.  Needless to say if you do this, you should put the polyline on a special layer.

[craig1234]

On 5/16/2020 at 2:57 PM, hamedDesighn said:

That's because you're only using chief

so lets say , um , we just want a wall dimension to be locked , this is very simple , because in a very complex REAL WORLD map , we don't have square walls we have off angle walls we have stuff that controlling them is a little bit hard , and suddenly when an important wall dimension changes anything become destructed it could be better if it was able to do that , like other software , like solidWorks constraint dimension system 

I have to absolutely agree that the inability to anchor or lock a wall is simply hamstringing the designer, and I don't think that people who have never used engineering tools can appreciate that fact.  For example, I currently have a project with a garage and a shop that meet at a wedge-shaped dog trot at some unknown angle.  (The main garage on the left, the shop on the right, the wedge dog-trot between them).  The shop is constrained by:

• The angle and location of the back wall.  the length of the back wall is a 'remainder'
• The length of the front wall.
• The left front corner defining the front wall and end (angled) dog-trot wall
• the back right corner
• The two right corners are forced to 90 degrees
• The additional length of the back of the dog trot compared to the front of the dog trot to form the wedge rather than a rectangle.
• The lengths of the back wall and of the left end (dog trot) wall are both 'remainders' 

So, two constrained corners, one constrained wall length, one constrained wall location, two constrained intersection right angles.... having two unknown length 'remainder walls' with unknown corner angles would be a trivial 1 minute layout in any engineering CAD program with the ability to anchor or lock corners and sides.  As near as i can tell it is impossible to do in Chief, but I would welcome someone showing me that i am wrong.

[glennw]

A plan might help instead of us having to reinvent the wheel.

I haven't got a clue what a "dog trot" is.

[Alaskan_Son]

For situations like that, you should probably just use CAD tools until you get it situated.  Then start moving walls.  WE have to use the right tools for the job, and sometimes walls aren't that tool. 

[Gr8trim4u]

How about putting them on there own layer and locking tje layer. Maybe a reference layer. 

[craig1234]

sure, here is a diagram.  a dog trot is a covered area between two living areas, open on each end.  a.k.a.,  breezeway. 

 

here is a sketch from engineering CAD that i finally had to use to give me the dimensions that i could never get using chief.

there are three dimensions to the structure as you can see, and another five constraints (two 90 degree corners, one parallel (to setback), on forces the left edge to be aligned with the upper structure left corner, and one on the left and right tips of the structure in the dog trot)

Specifically, the constraints are the 20'2" setback which defines the angle and location of the right (actually the back) wall.  the front (left) wall is specified to be a fixed 33'.  the gap in the breezeway on the left (front) is 6 feet.  The bottom two corners are 90 degrees.  the bottom left of the upper structure and top right of the lower structure are constrained to be straight across from one another.

since the length of the bottom, right, and top are unknown, as are the top two corner angles I was unable to get this configured in Chief.  since nothing can be locked, all attempts to configure this just resulted in other walls moving.  I needed to have the engineering CAD give me the dimensions that i could then put into chief.   Once the exterior walls are eventually located in Chief, using dimensions to locate items like doors/windows, additional invisible exterior walls to adjust the roof line, etc.,  results in walls inadvertently sliding up and down the angled wall or something else changing.  Again, it seems that the inability to lock or anchor a feature severely hamstrings the user for no particular reason.

[richoffan]

Since there is no info in your post regarding which version of Chief you are using or your experience with the program I don't want to presume anything. I can tell you using the program as it is intended would not pose any problems doing what is shown and described. The walls and all the information contained  therein for that part of the program are not intended for working out the geometry and trigonometry of your layout. The CAD tools and all their inherent features would make what you show quite simple. Much along the "lines" of creating a Plat all the information can be fed accurately into the sketch. Then the walls can be drawn. aligned, snapped to etc the CAD to achieve your purpose. Further you can determine if those angles and dimensions should correspond to the framing, sheathing, siding, foundation etc. There are many things, such as bump outs, bays, porches etc. that are far easier to layout in CAD and then "draw" with other appropriate parts of the program. Much like light construction lines to do layout in hand drawing before the actual drawing. There is an incredible amount of articles, videos, classes and tutors on how to best use the program. Again not presuming anything. I've been using Chief for 29 years now and I truly believe I know how to use approximately 75% of its capabilities (and far less in X15)

[glennw]

At a first quick look it would appear that there is not enough information to draw this.
Did you draw this with only the information supplied?

Do you know the angle of the upper shaded polygon?

or...do you know the width of the lower polygon and the location of the horizontal line that runs through it?

 

Are you familiar with the Enter Coordinates, Input Line and Input Point tools? - have a look in the help file.

Notice that  the Input Line and Input Point tools have a next button.

  

 

 

[GeneDavis]

To the OP:  Have you tried using Chief CAD to draw your building lines?  Are you able to get the geometry needed?

 

Nail in all down in CAD, then draw walls and edit them to align precisely to the CAD.  It is the only way to get the precision needed when there are walls with irregular angles.

[GeneDavis]

Here is an example from a plan I did that required CAD to get the walls right.  The skew wall has an angle of -82.543935° which matches the CAD segment in the polyline I used to force the wall to the lines.  First drawn, Chief makes it -82.5 degrees which matches a plan default allowed angle (7.5 degrees).  I forced it to match using the make parallel tool and had to edit with close zooms, but I got it.

 

The two short dimensions plus the other rectilinear dimensions locate the ends of the skew wall, and I wanted those dimensions no finer than 1/2" increments so the foundation builder can build the formwork for the slab.  The length of the skew wall is inconsequential.  It is the corners (the ends) that are located.

 

It's what you gotta do when you have skew walls that are off-angle.  Draw the CAD and edit however needed to get right, then do walls and some forcing with the make-parallel tool.

[Alaskan_Son]

19 hours ago, craig1234 said:

sure, here is a diagram.  a dog trot is a covered area between two living areas, open on each end.  a.k.a.,  breezeway. 

 

here is a sketch from engineering CAD that i finally had to use to give me the dimensions that i could never get using chief.

there are three dimensions to the structure as you can see, and another five constraints (two 90 degree corners, one parallel (to setback), on forces the left edge to be aligned with the upper structure left corner, and one on the left and right tips of the structure in the dog trot)

Specifically, the constraints are the 20'2" setback which defines the angle and location of the right (actually the back) wall.  the front (left) wall is specified to be a fixed 33'.  the gap in the breezeway on the left (front) is 6 feet.  The bottom two corners are 90 degrees.  the bottom left of the upper structure and top right of the lower structure are constrained to be straight across from one another.

since the length of the bottom, right, and top are unknown, as are the top two corner angles I was unable to get this configured in Chief.  since nothing can be locked, all attempts to configure this just resulted in other walls moving.  I needed to have the engineering CAD give me the dimensions that i could then put into chief.   Once the exterior walls are eventually located in Chief, using dimensions to locate items like doors/windows, additional invisible exterior walls to adjust the roof line, etc.,  results in walls inadvertently sliding up and down the angled wall or something else changing.  Again, it seems that the inability to lock or anchor a feature severely hamstrings the user for no particular reason.

 

I agree with some of the others. Nothing about your situation should preclude you for doing it all in Chief.  In fact, although it might still require using a little CAD, I'm not sure it couldn't all be done with walls. I feel like perhaps you just might not have a handle on the tools and methods you can be using. 

 

That being said, you're diagram is a little confusing and your constraints aren't very clear to me.  You're attempting to explain something in a lot of words that would be better put in your diagram:

 

Does this look about right?  If so, can you clarify a few things?

1. Are Line 1 and Line 2 parallel?  If so, then I must not understand the intent or else Dim 1 and Dim 3 would match.
2. Is Angle C a 90 degree angle or is it unknown?
3. Should Dim 3 perhaps more accurately be placed right in line with Line 3 indicating that there's actually a potential pivot point where the wall meets that line?
4. Am I correct that Angle A and Angle B are unknown?
5. Am I correct that Dim 4 is unknown?
6. Anything else I'm missing or misunderstanding?

[SHCanada2]

36 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Are Line 1 and Line 2 parallel?  If so, then I must not understand the intent or else Dim 1 and Dim 3 would match.

 

What are you trying to say here? I don't see a relation between dim 1 and dim 3 regarding the lines being parallel or not as there is no dimension from line 1

 

I can see dim 1 and 3 matching if the top building's rotated angle happens to land at a position in the rotated arc that equals dim 3.

 

Or they could match if building 2 was a different width than drawn.

 

But the fact they are different distances I don't think means much. Or maybe I am missing it

[Alaskan_Son]

On 4/1/2023 at 1:28 PM, SHCanada2 said:

What are you trying to say here? I don't see a relation between dim 1 and dim 3 regarding the lines being parallel or not as there is no dimension from line 1

 

I'm just trying to clarify what the end goal is because I don't understand which dimension(s), angle(s), or point(s) we're trying to solve for.  In reading through the description it would seem to me that we're trying to make Edge 1 align with P6, but that would require Lines 1 and 2 being at different angles.  If we're simply trying to solve for Dim 4 on the other hand, then we don't seem to have enough information to work with since simply rotating Building 1 would allow that number to be just about anything by simply moving Building 2 up or down to suit.   And if we're simply trying to find the angles of the lower wall on Building 1 and the upper wall of Building 2, then again, we don't have enough information to work with without some clarification.  We can currently model to meet the limited specs given and use an infinite number of configurations even if we were to lock Angles A, B, and C at 90 degrees.

 

...and that's before allowing for some of the other variables I asked about.  In any case, this doesn't seem to be an issue with the program at all but rather a basic geometric issue about which there's either a lack of understanding or lack of proper data.

[SHCanada2]

15 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

we don't seem to have enough information to work with since simply rotating Building 1 would allow that number to be just about anything by simply moving

That's the conclusion I came to

[glennw]

8 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

That's the conclusion I came to

Thats what I said way back - still waiting for feedback from the OP.

 

On 4/1/2023 at 4:03 PM, glennw said:

At a first quick look it would appear that there is not enough information to draw this.
Did you draw this with only the information supplied?

Do you know the angle of the upper shaded polygon?

or...do you know the width of the lower polygon and the location of the horizontal line that runs through it?

 

 

[Kbird1]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:12 PM, craig1234 said:

here is a sketch from engineering CAD that i finally had to use to give me the dimensions that i could never get using chief

 

 

My advice would of been to do the CAD in Chief , as Chief Walls LOVE to snap to CAD Lines , but I guess you've got it now since it appears you haven't been back to the Thread.

 

M.

[craig1234]

On 4/1/2023 at 1:49 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I agree with some of the others. Nothing about your situation should preclude you for doing it all in Chief.  In fact, although it might still require using a little CAD, I'm not sure it couldn't all be done with walls. I feel like perhaps you just might not have a handle on the tools and methods you can be using. 

 

That being said, you're diagram is a little confusing and your constraints aren't very clear to me.  You're attempting to explain something in a lot of words that would be better put in your diagram:

 

Does this look about right?  If so, can you clarify a few things?

1. Are Line 1 and Line 2 parallel?  If so, then I must not understand the intent or else Dim 1 and Dim 3 would match.
2. Is Angle C a 90 degree angle or is it unknown?
3. Should Dim 3 perhaps more accurately be placed right in line with Line 3 indicating that there's actually a potential pivot point where the wall meets that line?
4. Am I correct that Angle A and Angle B are unknown?
5. Am I correct that Dim 4 is unknown?
6. Anything else I'm missing or misunderstanding

 

thank you, yes this sums it up-- here are the clarifications on your items

 

lines 1 and 2 are indeed parallel

angles A, B, and C are all 90 degrees.  the two angles at P2 and the final corner are unknown

yes, dim3 has extension lines to show it is offset, but you are correct in that it is inline and the dimension from line 2 to edge 1

I had to derive dimension 4 using CAD as being dimension 3 plus dim4 minus dim1.  P6 is NOT in line with edge 1

 

[craig1234]

Quote

I'm just trying to clarify what the end goal is because I don't understand which dimension(s), angle(s), or point(s) we're trying to solve for.  In reading through the description it would seem to me that we're trying to make Edge 1 align with P6, but that would require Lines 1 and 2 being at different angles.  If we're simply trying to solve for Dim 4 on the other hand, then we don't seem to have enough information to work with since simply rotating Building 1 would allow that number to be just about anything by simply moving Building 2 up or down to suit.   And if we're simply trying to find the angles of the lower wall on Building 1 and the upper wall of Building 2, then again, we don't have enough information to work with without some clarification.  We can currently model to meet the limited specs given and use an infinite number of configurations even if we were to lock Angles A, B, and C at 90 degrees.

Sorry... building 1 is a part of another structure and is fixed, but we DO know the angle between building 1 and either of the two lines you have drawn. it is some arbitrary angle like 26.xx° degrees from the vertical.  There is nothing unknown that cannot be calculated using trigonometry.  the problem, and the reason for my agreement with the original poster, is that this is something which should be easily accomplished from within Chief, not using other tools or calculators.

[craig1234]

Thanks, yes.  It isn't just that walls snap, that is easily controlled by disabling snap while the wall is placed.  However, once all the walls are put in place, without the ability to lock or anchor a wall, even if snap is disabled during the wall placement, Chief will then prefer to snap that wall when windows and doors are added and located using precise dimensions.  the problem is compounded when adding (invisible) walls between the corners of the two buildings to form the breezeway.  To be clear, the problems all completely go away if all four walls are square.  the problem is because of the angled wall.  getting the wall in the correct location is not the problem, KEEPING it there is the problem.  it is like herding cats.

[craig1234]

On 4/1/2023 at 5:59 AM, GeneDavis said:

To the OP:  Have you tried using Chief CAD to draw your building lines?  Are you able to get the geometry needed?

 

Nail in all down in CAD, then draw walls and edit them to align precisely to the CAD.  It is the only way to get the precision needed when there are walls with irregular angles.

yes, this is exactly what i had to do, nail EVERYTHING down in CAD.  The wall that connects the two right corners in the breezeway is particularly problematic since it is just slightly off of alignment from the right wall of building 2.  with any dimension change on pretty much any feature, Chief would take the opportunity to dink with that wall.  very frustrating.

[Alaskan_Son]

52 minutes ago, craig1234 said:

 

thank you, yes this sums it up-- here are the clarifications on your items

 

lines 1 and 2 are indeed parallel

angles A, B, and C are all 90 degrees.  the two angles at P2 and the final corner are unknown

yes, dim3 has extension lines to show it is offset, but you are correct in that it is inline and the dimension from line 2 to edge 1

I had to derive dimension 4 using CAD as being dimension 3 plus dim4 minus dim1.  P6 is NOT in line with edge 1

 

based on this post, it sounds like you just confirmed what I demonstrated in my last post.  Without additional constraints dim 4 can be almost anything you want it to be.  You are still not making it very clear what we are solving for.  It seems that perhaps you are just demonstrating that you may not actually understand the geometry very well yourself and although you think you might’ve found the one answer, you just found one of MANY possible answers.