winterdd Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 How many of you guys go the extra mile, like myself, and include drawing the existing home with the addition. What i like to do is go to the site, take pics, take exterior measurements and return to the office and draw the whole thing with new addition. I delivered my client's plans and he thought i went overboard. First time i ever heard that, not to mention the price will remain the same so why not get a better product for your money? More is better in some situations, not to mention i think it makes it easier for the county to approve when they see a nice rendering of the overall project. I normally hatch out the existing home on the plan views but not in the elevations. What about you guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdd Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 One thing I forgot, i do not include any of the existing interior walls unless it ties into the addition somehow. I only draw the shell of the existing home with doors and windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javatom Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 The "as-built" of the existing home is kind of a required element. Most permit offices would not accept a plan that did not show this. It also shows what the completed project would look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdd Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, javatom said: The "as-built" of the existing home is kind of a required element. Most permit offices would not accept a plan that did not show this. It also shows what the completed project would look like. Thanks! Exactly what i say. You cant just show one exterior wall that the addition ties into. Talk about incomplete and confusing as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ChiefUserBigRob said: You cant just show one exterior wall that the addition ties into. In cases where the permitting office allows it, this is exactly what I do in order to keep costs down. I do include a key plan and/or a site plan showing the location of the addition to avoid confusion. But, like I said, in cases where my customers want to spend as little as possible, then I must draw as little as possible. Seems like a win, win. If they want to spend more, I'll happily oblige by modeling the entire as-built. Really depends on the client and their project / budget. My MO is not to spend my client's money unnecessarily. Obviously if they want to burn some cash, I'm quite happy to bring the gasoline! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdd Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, robdyck said: In cases where the permitting office allows it, this is exactly what I do in order to keep costs down. I do include a key plan and/or a site plan showing the location of the addition to avoid confusion. But, like I said, in cases where my customers want to spend as little as possible, then I must draw as little as possible. Seems like a win, win. If they want to spend more, I'll happily oblige by modeling the entire as-built. Really depends on the client and their project / budget. My MO is not to spend my client's money unnecessarily. Obviously if they want to burn some cash, I'm quite happy to bring the gasoline! I charge by the addition square foot and site work so im actually adding more for free ONLY to make a better product and because chief is a speedy piece of software. I take pride in what i deliver and the whole project rendered looks awesome on the title sheet. Totally get your method too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, ChiefUserBigRob said: I charge by the addition square foot and site work so im actually adding more for free ONLY to make a better product and because chief is a speedy piece of software. I take pride in what i deliver and the whole project rendered looks awesome on the title sheet. Totally get your method too! On bigger projects, where the customer may be interested, I'll definitely let them know that I'm able to provide them with better visuals. But, for example, the last addition I just completed, was a 12x16 room added to a 1800 sq ft house. In that case, and with that client (who just needed an extra bedroom because of an expanding family) it's pretty tough to justify the time of a complete site measure plus the time to draw and model a complete house just for a small rectangular room. It probably would've taken 10 times longer, you know? So in this case, it's not about showcasing my work or ability, or 'going the extra mile'. It's about listening to the client, understanding their situation and delivering just what they need (and hopefully leaving them some money for diapers). And by saving them as much as possible, they return the favor by word-of mouth referrals. And, what some might call 'extra effort' for me is time stolen from my family, my friends, and most importantly...my bikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina_Girerd Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 About 95% of the time I draw the whole house, including interior walls. Always do the exterior though, as I need the square footage numbers to know allowable square footage for the addition, walls in relation to setbacks, etc. I might not draw the whole house interior if I'm just doing a kitchen remodel, for example, in which case I might just label the back end of the house "Bedrooms" and not show any interior walls except those connected to the immediate remodel area. As was mentioned, drawing the interior walls is fairly quick and usually helps give the client context to see the whole thing. I just tell the client that putting in the existing plan is part of the project set-up, which includes checking the local codes, getting site data, etc. I've never had any client question me about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwideziner Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 It is a requirement for us to show complete before and after. I model the as built then do a save as and start working on the alteration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina_Girerd Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 And forgot to mention that I always ask the client if they have any floor plans from previous work done. Then I use those to save time. And if I do need to measure the whole house, I tell them they can help me if they want and reduce my time spent. They are always happy to do that and I get to know them a bit better while we're walking around with the tape measure and they feel glad they are saving some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdd Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Christina_Girerd said: And forgot to mention that I always ask the client if they have any floor plans from previous work done. Then I use those to save time. And if I do need to measure the whole house, I tell them they can help me if they want and reduce my time spent. They are always happy to do that and I get to know them a bit better while we're walking around with the tape measure and they feel glad they are saving some money. I hear ya! Most homes i do additions for the owners arent the best house keepers and measuring around their clutter for interior wall dims would drive me nuts lol. I am not bashing anyone who doesnt keep a clean house by the way, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdd Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Christina_Girerd said: I have debated quitting additions and focus primarily on new builds. But the additions keep me going. I really don't like them though. I do bang out some good work on them if i take them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renerabbitt Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ChiefUserBigRob said: I have debated quitting additions and focus primarily on new builds. But the additions keep me going. I really don't like them though. I do bang out some good work on them if i take them. IMO additions create better margins. Existing is required for the most part in my municipalities/counties. An easy justification, " I need to verify existing conditions to better verify the structural mockup of your home" ...it's the same justification I give for taking a couple hundred pictures. So many instances where an addition turns into a kitchen remodel on the other side of the home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina_Girerd Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Almost all my work is additions/remodels. Not so many new builds in our area since it is so built out already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 hours ago, robdyck said: In cases where the permitting office allows it, this is exactly what I do in order to keep costs down. I do include a key plan and/or a site plan showing the location of the addition to avoid confusion. But, like I said, in cases where my customers want to spend as little as possible, then I must draw as little as possible. Seems like a win, win. If they want to spend more, I'll happily oblige by modeling the entire as-built. Really depends on the client and their project / budget. My MO is not to spend my client's money unnecessarily. Obviously if they want to burn some cash, I'm quite happy to bring the gasoline! I mostly concur. Totally depends on the project and the nature/extent of the addition. As a builder, one thing I’m hyper-aware of is that the more information I provide, the higher the possibility that we’ll raise extra concerns. I like to provide as little information as possible to get the job done properly. Extra information typically only invites unnecessary complications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdd Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Renerabbitt said: IMO additions create better margins. Existing is required for the most part in my municipalities/counties. An easy justification, " I need to verify existing conditions to better verify the structural mockup of your home" ...it's the same justification I give for taking a couple hundred pictures. So many instances where an addition turns into a kitchen remodel on the other side of the home. This is very true. I did an addition to a vetrinary business. Once the owner moves the business into the addition he wants me to come back and tear down and layout new walls in the existing building. What's cool is he is working out of a model home and had the floorplan so i added the existing interior walls already in the plans i delivered to him. All I have to do is a save as to a new file and reconfigure walls. No clue how to even charge for that its so easy lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Around here, I have done over 4000 additions over 45+ years, and at least for 30 of those years I have needed all existing interior and exterior walls to be shown. I deal with about 50 cities so they vary in the amount of detail needed. A lot of the time we need to brace existing walls for earthquake. also we must show existing for all the energy requirements also needed on every job.. Sounds like fun doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, DRAWZILLA said: A lot of the time we need to brace existing walls for earthquake. also we must show existing for all the energy requirements also needed on every job Yep, same here in the S.F. bay area Perry... always need to show all of the existing walls, and not just that, but per your T-24 energy comment, need to measure all of the existing windows/ext. doors/skylights too. BTW...Those of you talking about using tape measures... I highly recommend a small investment (~$50) in a laser measuring tool! You'll be in love. Very happy with the Skil rechargeable unit, but if you don't mind dealing with batteries Bosch is highly rated as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdd Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, DzinEye said: Yep, same here in the S.F. bay area Perry... always need to show all of the existing walls, and not just that, but per your T-24 energy comment, need to measure all of the existing windows/ext. doors/skylights too. BTW...Those of you talking about using tape measures... I highly recommend a small investment (~$50) in a laser measuring tool! You'll be in love. Very happy with the Skil rechargeable unit, but if you don't mind dealing with batteries Bosch is highly rated as well. I have been pricing the laser measures. Dont you have to stick a target to the wall your shooting to (exterior walls). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, ChiefUserBigRob said: Dont you have to stick a target to the wall your shooting to (exterior walls). No. If you can handle listening to this guy, check out the video. This is what I use. Goes with me every where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy_DDR Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 On 2/19/2020 at 2:14 PM, robdyck said: This is what I use. Goes with me every where. What do you use for collecting the measurements? Do you pen/paper it, use an app, or draw in CA as you go? We need to get way more efficient at creating as-builds so I’m researching options & we already have a 50c that’s been paired with pen/paper, but in this day-age there’s *got* to be a better way. thank you for your input! (p.s. I’m not interested in getting off-topic emails telling me I’m posting wrong) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_Canada Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 12:18 PM, Katy_DDR said: What do you use for collecting the measurements? Do you pen/paper it, use an app, or draw in CA as you go? We need to get way more efficient at creating as-builds so I’m researching options & we already have a 50c that’s been paired with pen/paper, but in this day-age there’s *got* to be a better way. I use the bosch (GLM50C with bluetooth) laser measuring device (no special target needed) and i bought a $300 tablet that runs the bosh software. software is free You draw the walls in quick sketch and then convert to detailed walls to add measurements, windows, doors. It's pretty good, you have to put in a few manual measurements, for the rest, you just tap on the wall, and then press the button on the laser, and it shows up on the plan. It takes me about an hour to do a floor, or two hours to do the whole house including outside soffit height and pitch. the bosch is nice because it does have pitch angle, so you can rest on a gable fascia to get the pitch. i looked at the Leica, but it is more money for a little snap out thing I thought I would never use. The key thing about the bosch software is it auto scales, but then changes the number style when it comes from the laser, or you input manually. It makes it easy to figure out what you have left to measure and it also lets you sanity check the measurement vs the scaled distance. And this is important as you roam around a house, as after awhile you ask yourself, did I get that measurement? one thing I use the "manual" dimension for in the bosch software is for the keeping track of a measurement from a reference wall, to make sure the overall dimensions are correct. and of course I keep a tape measure in hand, and then add in notes in the bosch software as I need to detail HW, furnace, electrical panel best thing about the software is I dont have to read my handwriting oh and I do take pictures of some critical measurements where the tape measure is in the picture. for instance if there is a post. the problem with measurements is you have to know the reference point. Do you remember if you took a measurement from the east side of the post the west side or the middle. After multiple times forgetting, I either add a note to the bosch software or take a picture. and I take a bunch of general pictures For renos, I've learned it is a game of inches. a post dimension out 3 inches is the difference between a 33" hallway or a 36" hallway then once I get back, I redraw in CA one other thing, here most people have a surveyor's site plan as it is required to purchase a property. I will use the building footprint as the "truth" for outside wall dimension, which means I do not need to measure outside walls. I might fudge the numbers an inch or two to match the interior dims, but that is about it. This means the only thing I measure on the outside is soffit height, pitch, main floor elevation. I tell people that the hieght in my plans are not guaranteed, but also that if the customer is not changing the height, the City people will not care 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy_DDR Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 On 5/10/2021 at 6:07 PM, jasonN said: best thing about the software is I dont have to read my handwriting Yeah, reading my boss’ handwriting can be problematic at times, haha. Thank you Jason, for the wonderfully detailed answer! We’ll be measuring another house tomorrow and I’m leaning toward using the Bosch app with our 50c. A couple questions for you... I see Bosch has 2 apps out, MeasureOn Gen.1 & MeasureOn. Which do you use? And do you export the sketch you made on scene into CA so you can use it as a starting point, or do you draw in CA from scratch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I'd strongly suggest you get the GLM50C with bluetooth. Bosch Model # GLM 50 CX 165 ft. Laser Measure with Bluetooth and Full-Color Display: Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement with the bluetooth connected to the app, no typing. saves a TON of time. typing numbers is no fun. I use Meas on gen 1, it says v1.3.8 on my tablet. interesting that there are two now, as I was emailing the Bosch people about 3 months ago and they said a new version was coming, but I never saw it, so maybe it is out now. Nice guys, very open to suggestions (including the snap to angle for detailed). I just looked in google play and I do not see just a measure on, maybe it is the new version and only available in the US or only on apple or soemthing Couple things. use on a tablet, dont try on a phone. practice one first. it takes a bit getting used to switch the mode from panning to clicking walls. I will accidentally draw walls all the time because I forget to change back to panning. use quick sketch and then convert to detailed to measure. you can use the detail right away, but its a bit of a pain as it does not snap the walls to 90/45. I used to actually start with detail every time, but I practiced with the quick sketch first and it seems better attached is what it looks like, and the resulting output. One limitation is on T walls. You can see in the attached. The software breaks it into two walls. So what I will do to double check the inside dimensions is to create a "dimension line" and take a reading. I also do that for larger spaces, as a double check. Be careful not to measure a wall, and then create a T after you measure. you will lose your original measurement as it does not know how to divide up the measurement correctly, it just dives it, presumably based on scale of where you added the T wall. the other limitation is posts. so I either put a note in or draw a dimension line. one thing, dimension lines do not show in regular wall mode, you have to tap on the arrow For windows, it takes, W, H, from floor, and distance to wall, you can pick left or right the workflow I use is to draw all the walls, then go from wall to wall, tap, tap which side of wall then press the button on the bosch, and it will show up as the dim on the app, save, repeat. The extra dimension lines in the screenshots are the double check for the longer distances. Before I leave I do the rough math in my head to see that the walls add up I dont export for CA, I just move around the app, as the export numbers overlap. you could export and trace in CA, just be careful to use actual measurements. once the app detects an incorrect ratio it will no longer auto size walls, so you have to double check the walls lengths anyway in CA vs Bosch 64ave_se_New_detailed_plan.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 it is "measure on gen 1" that I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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