rockyshepheard

CA reporting same heights for roof planes obviously not

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I am trying to comprehend the (precise) meaning of the variables in a roof plane.

In this CA file you find two roof planes (at obviously differing heights) but still giving exactly the same heights info.

Questions:

1. Is this a glitch?

2. What is the line with a perpendicular line stick out of it. I always thought it was the baseline but if so then two differing baselines have the same exact height.

Thanks!

question for forum.plan

Untitled-3.gif

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Hi Rockne

Its not a glitch, the line is the base line that tells you where the roof plane origin is sitting. Notice the one on the left is not sitting on the wall.

It would make it alot easier to work with the program if you use some color for the selection and handle fill. Its in preferences 

Also what are your computer specs and version of chief? put that in your signature please

color-handles.JPG

preferances-color-tab.JPG

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Thanks. I will add my specs. You may be missing my point. Look at the height of both planes. One makes the walk taller, one dies not. Can you please explain why the heights are exactly the same (see image)?

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Rocky, look where your baselines are at. As mentioned in another post, you need to start the roof planes on the outside of framing.

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Also, why should I care where the baseline origin sits? I can tell if the overhang to little or too much with a simple dimension. I do care about heights that I cannot see in the plan.

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You should care about the baseline because it determines how the wall and roof objects interact.

(Just like what you define as the main layer of a wall will effect how the model builds.)

 

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Use the Reference Manual. I've mentioned this to you in other posts. It will explain so much, with pictures! Begin on page 788. Here is the link: X10 Reference Manual.

refbase.thumb.PNG.84ed83dddee07f0dd2a4b7140616f6b1.PNGrefbase2.thumb.PNG.50b1f7a5e62edcd6cdef650387f5f987.PNG

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33 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Look at the height of both planes. One makes the walk taller, one dies not. Can you please explain why the heights are exactly the same (see image)?

 

Take an elevation view of that and you will see that as far as that computer is concerned those roof planes are identical.

 

The walls are just responding to the location of the roof plane.

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32 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

 

Take an elevation view of that and you will see that as far as that computer is concerned those roof planes are identical.

 

The walls are just responding to the location of the roof plane.

Exactly. Here is something you should know and one reason why you should start the roof plane in the correct location.

Something to know- Let's say your "1st. floor default" has a rough ceiling height of 97-1/8". This is what Chief is setting your plate height at when you place a roof in the correct location (outside of main layer).

Why you should place the roof plane in the correct location (manual roofs)- Lets say that on the 1st floor you have all rooms using the default ceiling height (97-1/8") BUT one area has a 10 ft. ceiling and you need a 10' roof plate for that roof area. If you manually build a roof plane out in space away from the wall, Chief will place that roof plane and plate height based on the 1st floor default ceiling height instead of placing it at the 10' plate because it has no room definition to define where to place the roof. Could you still fix the roof? Yes but why not model the house the way it is intended by Chief. You're going to create all sorts of problems down the road if you don't model things correctly.

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So then you're saying that 'identical' roof planes can have 'different' height walls under them?

I would think the plane on the left has increased in the z axis, otherwise what prompted the wall beneath it get taller. see image.

yyy.jpg

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Of what value is the baseline indicator? It is just you can make sure that if the roof plane gets accidentally moved in plan view, you can set it back?

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Maye I'm getting it now. Let's see

Changing the baseline height means the same as saying "add height to or subtract height from the original wall", thus heightening or lowering the roof plane.

That seems to be the effect.

So to get the same effect on a wall you can either increase the baseline height OR simply move the plane further from the wall.

 

 

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I'm kinda busy this morning but maybe someone here can clarify for you. You still need to place the roof in the correct location for all kinds of reasons.

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Let me see if I can really start you thinking.  

 

Draw a big room.  

Build a 8:12 roof with 2x16 rafters in correct location at a wall.

Build a 8:12 roof with 2x12 rafters in correct location at a wall.

Build a 8:12 roof with TRUSSES in correct location at a wall.

 

Now compare the different base line heights.

 

and review this:

Use the Reference Manual. I've mentioned this to you in other posts. It will explain so much, with pictures! Begin on page 788. Here is the link: X10 Reference Manual.

refbase.thumb.PNG.84ed83dddee07f0dd2a4b7140616f6b1.PNGrefbase2.thumb.PNG.50b1f7a5e62edcd6cdef650387f5f987.PNG

 

When you can explain why the baseline heights are all different,  you will understand the importance of the base line.

 

BTW,  I no longer see the POST NUMBER for a particular thread....

 

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34 minutes ago, dshall said:

 

BTW,  I no longer see the POST NUMBER for a particular thread....

 

 

Neither do I. Those numbers are (were) useful.

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The baseline is where your rafter is seated on the plate.  If that baseline is located away from the wall, the height of the rafter at the wall will be higher or lower.  Chief will adjust your wall height to bring the plates up to create a birdsmouth at the elevation where the rafter passes over the wall.  So for best practice, always draw the baseline over the outside surface of the supporting element of the wall, usually the main layer.

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1 hour ago, rockyshepheard said:

Maye I'm getting it now. Let's see

Changing the baseline height means the same as saying "add height to or subtract height from the original wall", thus heightening or lowering the roof plane.

That seems to be the effect.

So to get the same effect on a wall you can either increase the baseline height OR simply move the plane further from the wall.

 

 

I don't suggest moving the plane further from the wall.  Chief designed the baseline to indicate where the roof is supported by the structure (beam or wall.)  I make very sure on all of my plans that the roof baseline is directly over the exterior face of the wall or beam, and adjust the baseline height as needed.  If you are designing with trusses, the baseline height should be the height of the wall plus the heel height of the truss.  If you are designing with rafters, be sure to have all your settings correct in the build roof DBX and Chief will set the proper height for the birdsmouth cut.

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Just added my computer specs in my profile but I still don't see them. I added them in the "About me" text entry box. Is that correct?

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31 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Just added my computer specs in my profile but I still don't see them. I added them in the "About me" text entry box. Is that correct?

 

No, wrong place. Account Settings>Signature.

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2 hours ago, rlackore said:

 

Neither do I. Those numbers are (were) useful.

 

We lost Post numbers back in March I think it was...I too found them useful....

 

M.

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49 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Just added my computer specs in my profile but I still don't see them. I added them in the "About me" text entry box. Is that correct?

 

No .see mine below in blue for where to go to do it up at the top of the Window....

 

M.

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4 hours ago, rockyshepheard said:

Of what value is the baseline indicator? It is just you can make sure that if the roof plane gets accidentally moved in plan view, you can set it back?

 

I assume you mean the Short "tick" mark on the base line?  it is telling/pointing to you which way the Roof Slopes UP .

 

2 hours ago, KervinHomeDesign said:

The baseline is where your rafter is seated on the plate.  If that baseline is located away from the wall, the height of the rafter at the wall will be higher or lower.  Chief will adjust your wall height to bring the plates up to create a birdsmouth at the elevation where the rafter passes over the wall.  So for best practice, always draw the baseline over the outside surface of the supporting element of the wall, usually the main layer.

 

just to be Clear the baseline is always at the VRD distance above the Wall Plate but in line with it. The VRD ( vertical rafter distance) can be seen in the Roof planes DBX General Tab. This distance is dependant on the Rafter size used and the Roof Pitch as Scott was pointing out above....

 

Here is Curt's Cheat Sheet for VRD's he posted a couple of years ago and a Roof Pitch Ref. Chart.

1993627554_RoofPitchAngles.thumb.JPG.20a87e52187f9c4bffc13708b1d5ccf2.JPG

 

Curt's Energy Heel Info.pdf

 

Roof Pitch Degrees Reference.pdf

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