Glass shower door in glass wall above curb and pony wall

[Ver1tas]

This is an issue that has been driving me crazy for a little while now.  So far I have ignored it since I had other areas that I could work on, but now I need to get this figured out.  I attached a screenshot with markup of the problem.  Basically, I am trying to figure out the best way to model a pony wall adjacent to a shower curb with a glass wall on top of both, with a glass door.  I think I have tried about 5-6 different combinations of things, without getting it to look right.  The method shown in the attachment was my brute force method, but least effective.  I am using X8 on a Windows 7 machine

Current Issue.pdf

[DavidJPotter]

There are several ways to accomplish this result.

One is to use a glass shower wall for the glass wall portion, that makes it easy to then add a glass shower door. For the pony-wall portion, you can emulate that with a custom slab or slabs and just envelope the left-hand portion of the glass shower wall (the lower custom slab to emulate the pony-wall and a second one to emulate the pony-wall cap. You adjust the glass wall top in an elevation camera to the exact height you wish the glass to be.

 

DJP

[TheKitchenAbode]

My preference has been to do showers using individual poly-line solids, slabs, partitions and the likes. This provides full control over every element and everything can be dimensioned. The other aspect when doing it this way is you are designing it the way it would be done on-site and as such you can identify and evaluate any potential instillation issues.

 

[Ver1tas]

Thank you both for your suggestions!

[SNestor]

16 hours ago, Ver1tas said:

This is an issue that has been driving me crazy for a little while now.  So far I have ignored it since I had other areas that I could work on, but now I need to get this figured out.  I attached a screenshot with markup of the problem.  Basically, I am trying to figure out the best way to model a pony wall adjacent to a shower curb with a glass wall on top of both, with a glass door.  I think I have tried about 5-6 different combinations of things, without getting it to look right.  The method shown in the attachment was my brute force method, but least effective.  I am using X8 on a Windows 7 machine

Current Issue.pdf

 

Made a quick video showing how to accomplish using Pony Walls...hope it helps

 

 

[Michael_Gia]

3 hours ago, SNestor said:

 

Made a quick video showing how to accomplish using Pony Walls...hope it helps

 

 

 Nicely done video, guy.

Thanks!

[tommy1]

Depending on the shower, I prefer to do it like Graham for the same reasons.

[MarkMc]

I'm with Tommy and Graham too. Had been doing so many baths and gotten really tired of fighting to get the side wall to extend a few inches past the glass and meet the curb I made some symbols for showers. Exploded solids to faces so I could have different materials on each- few partition walls, half wall, glass wall, glass wall with notch so I don't end up with extra lines on drawings for glass bids. Took a couple of hours and has saved a good bit more.

[SNestor]

I guess it depends on what you need to provide to the client.  Coming at this from a GC point of view I would not want to be responsible for a “shop” drawing for my shower glass subcontractor.  I would expect them to have a general knowledge of the end goal...maybe meet on site and let them work up their own specific shop drawing.  

 

Now...if you are a design/build contractor then by all means...a very specific drawing may be required and using p-solids would definitely give you more control and accuracy.  

[dshall]

Without a doubt I go with DJP.

 

Glass wall with glass door.  The 4" curb and 42" hi pony wall adjacent to vanity are PSOLIDS.  I do the TILE VENEER with a MOLDING POLYLINE. (I can shape it in plan view easily. And option to the.MOLDING POLYLINE is a WALL MATERIAL REGION.

 

The downside for me with the PONY WALL solution is the pony may be different heights (4" curb and the 42" hi pony wall adjacent to the vanity).

[Ridge_Runner]

Nice video, Steve. I always appreciate your time in making these instructional videos.

[SNestor]

58 minutes ago, dshall said:

 

The downside for me with the PONY WALL solution is the pony may be different heights (4" curb and the 42" hi pony wall adjacent to the vanity).

 

Did you watch the video?  

 

I made both the 42” wall and the 6” wall...the entire thing took less than 3 min to create.  Both methods have pluses depending on what you are getting paid to do.  Personally...if you are just drafting plans...you don’t really want to create shop drawings.  You just end up being blamed for things not fitting or working.  P-solid method will result in additional accuracy...can’t argue that.  But...the pony wall is faster.  

[MarkMc]

20 minutes ago, SNestor said:

Personally...if you are just drafting plans...you don’t really want to create shop drawings.

A drawing to use to get a quote is not the same thing as a shop drawing. The drawing if presented to a client and the quote when returned always indicate something to the effect "final dimensions and pricing to be determined after template on job site" A decent drawing gets a more accurate quote- makes for happier client.

[Ver1tas]

17 hours ago, SNestor said:

 

Made a quick video showing how to accomplish using Pony Walls...hope it helps

 

 

Great Video SNestor!  Much appreciated!

[TheKitchenAbode]

As Steve states, it really depends on how much detail and control one needs. For myself, I require full control over every element and the ability to fully dimension these, Like Mark I need to obtain very accurate quotations, nothing worse than having to go back to the client to tell them it's going to cost more because when they came in to do the actual site measures things varied or were not clearly indicated or shown in the original quote drawings.

[dshall]

4 hours ago, SNestor said:

 

Did you watch the video?  

 

I made both the 42” wall and the 6” wall...the entire thing took less than 3 min to create.  Both methods have pluses depending on what you are getting paid to do.  Personally...if you are just drafting plans...you don’t really want to create shop drawings.  You just end up being blamed for things not fitting or working.  P-solid method will result in additional accuracy...can’t argue that.  But...the pony wall is faster.  

 

Yes,  I watched it,  good vid,  I suppose it seems like I always have a tricky situation where the wall is sometimes a seat and maybe is part of a tub platform etc.,  I think somebody recently was pointing. out how fussy the wall connections can be.  I suppose my question would be what is the advantage to using pony walls? 

 

[SNestor]

3 minutes ago, dshall said:

 

Yes,  I watched it,  good vid,  I suppose it seems like I always have a tricky situation where the wall is sometimes a seat and maybe is part of a tub platform etc.,  I think somebody recently was pointing. out how fussy the wall connections can be.  I suppose my question would be what is the advantage to using pony walls? 

 

 

No "advantage" really...except if you have a simple condition it's quick and easy.  If you have a shower that turns a corner...with angles and a seat, then P-Solids is the way to go...or maybe a combo of both methods.  

 

My video just shows one method possible.  Chief does give us many ways to do things like this to suit everyones particular needs.  

 

Also...just remember Scott, you and your videos have got me to where I am today...I owe it all to you buddy.  Thanks!

[ClarkeThrasher]

What I haven't found here is a suitable way to make a shower curb WITHOUT a door over it for a large walk-in shower that does not need a door.  I tried a Polyline Solid but it did not mate seamlessly with it's adjacent tile wall.  I created a Pony Wall with a 6" tall lower wall and an appropriate width (5-1/4") "Nothing" wall above, but that leaves framing showing at ceiling and its adjacent wall intersection.

 

Curb Prob.pdf

[SNestor]

3 hours ago, ClarkeThrasher said:

What I haven't found here is a suitable way to make a shower curb WITHOUT a door over it for a large walk-in shower that does not need a door.  I tried a Polyline Solid but it did not mate seamlessly with it's adjacent tile wall.  I created a Pony Wall with a 6" tall lower wall and an appropriate width (5-1/4") "Nothing" wall above, but that leaves framing showing at ceiling and its adjacent wall intersection.

 

Curb Prob.pdf

 

I did a quick video for you...hope it helps.

 

[ClarkeThrasher]

Ok, Solver, thank you, I thought my question was fairly specific but I will try better next time and I appreciate your time and consideration.  You will have to tell me how to post images directly.  I'm using X9 but will upgrade to latest when i get the chance.

 

SNestor, thank you so much for your time and consideration as well, I will be working through your directions presently.  Cracks me up how fast you can toggle, mouse (a verb?), and click through your commands, BRAVO!

[Rpadge]

Nice job Steve, I always learn something from your videos.

 

[Dermot]

"I created a Pony Wall with a 6" tall lower wall and an appropriate width (5-1/4") "Nothing" wall above..."

 

I can see no reason to use a pony wall, which Chief uses to build two separate wall types, and then try to force the program to make one of them go away.  There are several ways to adjust the wall so that it doesn't go up to the ceiling or down to the floor.  You can simply adjust the height in an elevation view, adding break points where needed, or place openings into the wall (using pass-thrus or doorways).  For modeling a shower curb, I would simply use the half-wall tool (aka a solid rail) as Steve shows in his video.

 

Regarding Steve's video, I would probably never use a polyline solid for a wall cap since solid rails already have an automatic wall cap.  The wall cap can have a separate material and overhangs if you like and it will always stay with the wall unlike a polyline solid.  I would also not create a new wall type with just a single layer for a tile wall.  I would encourage you to model the wall similar to how you would build it in the real world by using a framing layer in the center and tile layers on the outside with something like a cement backboard to mount the tile to.  This will be much more realistic and allow you to generate more accurate dimensions, framing, and material lists.

[Ridge_Runner]

What happened to Steve's video link?

[SNestor]

1 hour ago, Dermot said:

 

Regarding Steve's video, I would probably never use a polyline solid for a wall cap since solid rails already have an automatic wall cap.  The wall cap can have a separate material and overhangs if you like and it will always stay with the wall unlike a polyline solid.  I would also not create a new wall type with just a single layer for a tile wall.  I would encourage you to model the wall similar to how you would build it in the real world by using a framing layer in the center and tile layers on the outside with something like a cement backboard to mount the tile to.  This will be much more realistic and allow you to generate more accurate dimensions, framing, and material lists.

 

Well...I disagree just a little.  

 

Unfortunately a wall cap...applied via the half wall Dbx does not extend at the end of the wall...just along the sides.  

 

Using a specific wall type with needed layers is fine but the ends of this type of wall definition usually won’t finish with tile. I’m not at my computer to confirm this...but this is what I recall and why I went with the single wall layer of tile.  

 

[Dermot]

I don't think you would want the wall cap to extend past the end of the wall in this case because it butts into other walls on both sides.

 

Aslo, just as an FYI, we have made a number of improvements in these areas in X11 (wall caps, exposed wall ends, glass shower walls and doors, etc).  You should retry this in X11 when you get a chance.  If you still find any areas that you think need additional improvements, you should report those to our technical support team.