jrussell Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I've been helped a lot by the members of this forum, both directly and indirectly. For that, I genuinely thank you. I've seen members ask other members to upload their CA file to see if they can help. I honestly believe that is what they are doing because I've seen the results. But I'm new here, and I feel a little uncomfortable posting my client's home designs; 'm not sure if I'm violating their confidentiality or not. I'm obviously not trying to impugn anyone's character; I just need some input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Typically the designer is the owner of creative works. Unless you have some special arrangement otherwise, I can't see why you'd have an issue - so long as you dont share information on your client through the file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDandD Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I've been helped a lot by the members of this forum, both directly and indirectly. For that, I genuinely thank you. I've seen members ask other members to upload their CA file to see if they can help. I honestly believe that is what they are doing because I've seen the results. But I'm new here, and I feel a little uncomfortable posting my client's home designs; 'm not sure if I'm violating their confidentiality or not. I'm obviously not trying to impugn anyone's character; I just need some input. If you really think you have created something that no human has ever conceived you might want to protect it. Otherwise, just post the plan. People in my opinion are silly about protecting their designs. Anyone that wants to can copy any plan very quickly with or without a file. Posting a plan helps tremendously for guys that know the ins and outs of Chief. Remember, it is YOU that is asking for help. They are not soliciting your plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrussell Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 If you really think you have created something that no human has ever conceived you might want to protect it. Otherwise, just post the plan. People in my opinion are silly about protecting their designs. Anyone that wants to can copy any plan very quickly with or without a file. Posting a plan helps tremendously for guys that know the ins and outs of Chief. Remember, it is YOU that is asking for help. They are not soliciting your plans. Thank you for your intelligent, helpful, and well-thought advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzira Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I own what I draw. My contract is clear on that and I will not work without a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
country Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I posted a plan yesterday at 5:00 and by 6:30 had a properly functioning drawing thanks to a couple great people on the forum. If I hadn't posted the plan I would have been up half the night trying to make it work and I would have wasted a number of people's time guessing how to fix it. I'm sure my clients will appreciate it when I send them proper option presentations this morning. Other forum members may learn something from this plan and the fix so I see it as a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 There are only two valid reasons for not posting the plan. 1.) You have a non-disclosure agreement with you client. Working on a new Apple Store concept. or 2.) You are concerned that a member will make a judgment in respect to your capabilities. The first condition is understood. The 2nd should not concern you. I have found that members focus on the issue at hand and are not really interested in passing on judgment unless specifically asked to do so. Even the best designer out there has a drawer or more full of work that is not to their liking. Design is a process of exploring ideas and concepts in an attempt to find a combination that meets your expressive objectives, your clients expectations and ultimately their budget. As commonly said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", who am I (we) to judge. Graham 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrussell Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 I posted a plan yesterday at 5:00 and by 6:30 had a properly functioning drawing thanks to a couple great people on the forum. If I hadn't posted the plan I would have been up half the night trying to make it work and I would have wasted a number of people's time guessing how to fix it. I'm sure my clients will appreciate it when I send them proper option presentations this morning. Other forum members may learn something from this plan and the fix so I see it as a win-win. That's a really good point that I hadn't thought of, thank you. I read your post yesterday; glad you got the roof issue fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrussell Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 There are only two valid reasons for not posting the plan. 1.) You have a non-disclosure agreement with you client. Working on a new Apple Store concept. or 2.) You are concerned that a member will make a judgment in respect to your capabilities. The first condition is understood. The 2nd should not concern you. I have found that members focus on the issue at hand and are not really interested in passing on judgment unless specifically asked to do so. Even the best designer out there has a drawer or more full of work that is not to their liking. Design is a process of exploring ideas and concepts in an attempt to find a combination that meets your expressive objectives, your clients expectations and ultimately their budget. As commonly said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", who am I (we) to judge. Graham Thanks, Graham. I'm not worried about members passing judgment on me at all. I've been doing design for a lot of years (I've got that drawer full, too!). I'm new to CA so I'm just learning the ropes. There are some really smart people here, and I'm glad for their help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey_martin Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Even the best designer out there has a drawer or more... Funny you mention that. I was cleaning out my "drawer" the other day looking for a stinker I did a while back. It have a great kitchen concept...the rest not so much... I think that, even with a NDA, the client would not mind seeking the help of colleagues to make sure the project gets done correctly and on time. Spinning wheels fighting the program isn't good for you or your client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCole Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I am curious if anyone here has actually read the agreement that was required to be acknowledged in order to be on Chief's new forum? The reason that I asked is that, from what I remember, there are potentially additional issues regarding intellectual property. Just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I am curious if anyone here has actually read the agreement that was required to be acknowledged in order to be on Chief's new forum? The reason that I asked is that, from what I remember, there are potentially additional issues regarding intellectual property. Just something to think about. As this is a public forum one has to keep in mind that once posted it is, for all intent and purposes, in the public domain. This is not only relevant to plans, but also all commentary, techniques, etc.. Even if one were to place a disclosure restrictive statement at the bottom of a posting there is really no way to prevent it's use. A statement is only as good as your capacity to enforce it, no different than a contract. If one feels that they are in possession of intellect property then it would be best to make no mention of it. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 once posted it is, for all intent and purposes, in the public domain Graham: sorry but this is not true if you meant to say that it can be spread and never deleted that is true but copyrighted work is copyrighted regardless of how it is published if the owner hasn't filed a copyright it is still protected just much harder to prove it is yours Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 once posted it is, for all intent and purposes, in the public domain Graham: sorry but this is not true if you meant to say that it can be spread and never deleted that is true but copyrighted work is copyrighted regardless of how it is published if the owner hasn't filed a copyright it is still protected just much harder to prove it is yours Lew Public Domain refers to the situation where something is presented to the public , it is no longer an internal secret. It may be in any form, written or visual. To let the public know of ones claim of property there are additional legally recognized means to do so such as Trademarks, Copyright and Patents. If you have one of these you are required to identify the property as such so to inform the public that their rights to this property in the Public Domaine are restricted. Even this does not prevent someone from using, copying or distributing your claimed property. It only provides proof of your claim in the event that you take legal action against the perpertrator. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Graham: Under copyright laws that were in effect before 1978, a work that was published without copyright notice fell into the public domain. If the work did not include the word “Copyright” or a © (a “c” in a circle) and the name of the copyright owner, the work would enter the public domain. This rule was repealed; copyright notice is not required for works first published after March 1, 1989 - See more at: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/#sthash.fsIHqduz.dpuf Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/stopping-internet-plagiarism/your-copyrights-online/3-copyright-myths/ Copyright is created in a work once it is fixed into a tangible medium of expression. This means your novel is protected the second you hit the “save” button. it’s a good idea to include a copyright notice, but it isn’t necessary copyright in a work is created once the work is fixed into a tangible medium of expression. However, registering your work does provide you with extra protections. First, in the United States, you have to first register your work before you can sue for it. Second, you can only get statutory damages for infringements that took place either after the registration or after publication if the work was registered within three months. Without statutory damages, most copyright infringement lawsuits are a waste of resources. A work is protected by copyright the moment it is created, but if you want to enforce that copyright in a court, you need to register it. there is nothing the precludes you from enforcing your copyrights at a later date. Derivative works is a particularly messy area of copyright law and one that is still being settled. However, it is based upon whether an “ordinary observer” would find the works “substantially similar”. This is a very tricky area but it should suffice to say that simply doing your own work does not protect you from copyright infringement so long as that work is based heavily upon the work of someone else. Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Lew - Great discussion, thanks for participating. Now back to the issue. First, about the above article. The only material item that this disputes is my use of the term "required", even so it does caution that by not doing so one could severely impede their ability to substantiate their claim. The real issue is not whether there are laws or statutes that afford ones right to protection under the law. The point I made in my original posting was that these laws in them selves do not prevent someone from using, copying or distributing your property once you place your property into the Public Domain. For example, you in the act of going to another website, copying a portion of it and then distributing it on this forum, according to what I believe is your interpretation of things, was in fact an act of Copyright infringement, as I assume you did not obtain permission from the owner to do so. The law in itself did not prevent this from happening! Laws or Statutes, criminal or civil are not written in the context of preventing these activities. They are written to provide a means to determine when enforcement may be pursued. It is unfortunately the reality that a law is not worth the paper it is written upon if there is no means of enforcement. If it was other wise then there would be no need for courts or police. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Graham: there is the "fair use doctrine" to consider for my "copying" of the text from that site that is another "issue" once you place your property into the Public Domain I think you mean to say "public arena" Public Domain is a different concept so yes, anything in the public "arena" can be distributed easily and it is up to the copyright holder to defend their copyright if I post a song or the lyrics to a song after many others have done so without protest from the copyright holder - it will be "harder" for the copyright holder to "sue" me then can do so but their claim is weakened bottom line: posting a plan in this "public arena" does NOT negate the owners copyright only the copyright owner can do so by stating "I place this in the public domain" ( or similar words) Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Lew - How would this scenario be treated. I post in this forum what I believe to be a unique combination of light & raytrace settings that virtually guarantees high quality raytraces at maximum pass through rate, this setting combination has never been posted here before . Upon you seeing these settings do you have the right to use them to the benefit your business? and if you did use them do I have the right to claim infringement? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Amazing how threads can devolve. To the OP. How many 'clients' plans have been posted on this forum? How much damage has come from such postings? Relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Graham: Exceptions to copyrightThere are some exceptions to what copyright will protect. Copyright will not protect: Names of products Names of businesses, organizations, or groups Pseudonyms of individuals Titles of works Catchwords, catchphrases, mottoes, slogans, or short advertising expressions Listings of ingredients in recipes, labels, and formulas, however the directions can be copyrighted your example may be considered "directions" if someone posts the steps to fix a roof problem that probably can't be copyrighted I started a collection of over 24 roof types that could be done via the auto-gen while each one may not be copyrightable my collection would have been even if I had posted that collection on this forum Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imodel Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 In some cases you may be able to do a "save as" and parse the model down to the problem area without much effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Lew - There are a number of items such as those in your list that can't be covered under copyright, however some of those can be covered under Trademark and Patent protection such as brand names, chemical formulations, mechanical processes and the likes.There are also seperate ways to protect design work such as logo's (graphic design), fashion design, product design for example. Despite all of this, it still boils down to the complainants ability to pursue enforcement. There really is no mechanism where this will be done by some other authority on your behalf, great for large corporations who can afford the cost. If your client refuses to pay for a contracted for service that has been delivered you can only obtain payment if you have the means to take them to court. The only reason you have a contract is so it can be used to determine breach and fault during a proceeding. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 it still boils down to the complainants ability to pursue enforcement Graham: absolutely Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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