What would cause me to repeatedly lose all deck framing?

[GeneDavis]

I am reworking a plan due to client changes to the roof, and have had to delete all roof planes, roof framing, and build new, plus all affected walls.  The plan has decks at front and rear, with framing that had been meticulously edited.  I have lost it multiple times and cannot recover it, but what could have caused it to delete?  Deck room defs, deck planking all remain, but the framing goes away.

[rgardner]

2 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

I am reworking a plan due to client changes to the roof, and have had to delete all roof planes, roof framing, and build new, plus all affected walls.  The plan has decks at front and rear, with framing that had been meticulously edited.  I have lost it multiple times and cannot recover it, but what could have caused it to delete?  Deck room defs, deck planking all remain, but the framing goes away.

Losing room definition.  Make sure you have retain framing checked.

[Bob-Roraback]

I had that happen in X15 too Gene. Just like you said it was for no apparent reason. I never lost the room definition. 

[HartDeNoble]

16 minutes ago, Bob-Roraback said:

I had that happen in X15 too Gene. Just like you said it was for no apparent reason. I never lost the room definition. 

I have had this happen multiple times as well. I usually manually change the framing due to wanting a flush beam rather than a drop beam and I keep losing deck framing despite having retain framing checked and not losing room definition. I am thinking it might be a bug. 

[GeneDavis]

If a bug it needs to be fixed.  Chief X15 still has no separate defaults for deck rim joists and width comes from floor framing.

 

I set floor at i-joist sizing for joists and 1-1/8" rimboard and X15 uses the 1-1/8 rims for deck framing which involves tedious editing to correct.  I suggest a change to deck framing defaults long ago but it ain't done and it's annoying.

[robdyck]

I can't say why it would be happening. I used to deal with this frequently. Deck framing would rebuild and edits would be lost even after every possible lock was set. My solution was to only build deck framing for projects where it was necessary to show in either plan view or 3d view, and manually frame everything using floor joists / beams. It was almost always faster to build manually than cleaning up Chief's auto generated framing. Keep in mind that you can save this framing to your library as CAD blocks! 

[GeneDavis]

Seems new to X15.

[Bob-Roraback]

Yes this is new to X15  never had this issue previously

[GeneDavis]

Who has already reported this?  No sense in filing a ticket if Chief's working on this.

 

I thought I was safe sending a nicely edited and annotated deck framing plan to layout, thinking it was plot-line-like and would remain OK on the layout page if the framing went missing in the plan model, but no, the framing ain't a plot line thing when sent to layout.  If your framing goes into the ether, your layout which is live, gets its framing members blanked.

 

Sucks.

[HartDeNoble]

55 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

Who has already reported this?  No sense in filing a ticket if Chief's working on this.

 

I thought I was safe sending a nicely edited and annotated deck framing plan to layout, thinking it was plot-line-like and would remain OK on the layout page if the framing went missing in the plan model, but no, the framing ain't a plot line thing when sent to layout.  If your framing goes into the ether, your layout which is live, gets its framing members blanked.

 

Sucks.

I have not reported it yet because I thought it was something in my plan, but over the course of a couple of weeks I am starting to think it is a bug because I have never lost room definition and it happens very randomly. After seeing other people have the same issue, this confirms to me that it is something in X15.

[Joe_Carrick]

Regardless if it's been reported by someone else or not, go ahead and report it.  

 

Squeaky Wheel.............

[DeLayDesign]

I had issues with X14 when painting the deck.  Doing so made the deck planks disappear.  It doesn't sound like this is your issue directly, but perhaps it's related?

[MoeGia]

I have seen it multiple times in X15.  When I reported it, I was told to check 'retain framing'.  It's different behavior from X14.  Maybe it was a bug before???

[robdyck]

16 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

I thought I was safe sending a nicely edited and annotated deck framing plan to layout, thinking it was plot-line-like and would remain OK on the layout page if the framing went missing in the plan model, but no, the framing ain't a plot line thing when sent to layout.  If your framing goes into the ether, your layout which is live, gets its framing members blanked.

The general concept of losing edited deck framing members is not new to X15. I learned a long time ago to not trust deck framing members. I'm sure it goes against Chief's recommendations, but do not use deck framing members if you need them in a plan set. Is there any other way to say this?

Rather, use floor framing members and change their role, layer, and other properties to suit your needs. Save frequently used types as a CAD block in your library. Learn how to draw and edit the framing manually. It will be faster, more accurate, and reliable.

Chief's auto deck framing is NOT suitable for any practical purpose related to plans, it is simply there to get an idea of what the deck framing looks like. Just like every other framing tool.

They can provide good visualization and even a good start, but it is often harder to edit Chief's generated floor / roof framing than to draw it from scratch, assuming you know how!

[rgardner]

1 hour ago, robdyck said:

do not use deck framing members if you need them in a plan set.

I can see how this would be very frustrating as I customize my deck framing on every plan.  But I have literally done I would say 5-600+ deck plans easy with chief over the years.  Other than UE with not turning off auto framing or checking retain deck framing I have never lost it.  I have when I didn't do that.

[Dermot]

Currently, we have no open reports of any problems related to losing manually edited deck framing.

 

Our lead engineer in charge of the framing in Chief spent a good deal of time yesterday investigating this area and was not able to find any problems that would cause this.

 

If anyone can come up with repeatable steps to reproduce this problem, then please contact our tech support department so that we can look into this further.

 

[robdyck]

4 hours ago, rgardner said:

I can see how this would be very frustrating as I customize my deck framing on every plan.  But I have literally done I would say 5-600+ deck plans easy with chief over the years.  Other than UE with not turning off auto framing or checking retain deck framing I have never lost it.  I have when I didn't do that.

Then I wouldn't have that same suggestion for you. All I'm saying is that when a problem arises, you can keep trying the same thing hoping it doesn't happen again or you can try something else. My suggested correction is only suitable for those who have had that particular issue. One of the issues with identifying the cause is that these types of errors, (whether caused by the software or the user) is that they are often not noticed by the user until many other steps or processes have been completed.

Because there are so many variations and regional framing preferences, if Chief's auto tools don't work for you, then don't use them. There are other great tools at your disposal.

I'm not alone with a couple of reasons that I never use Chief's deck framing tools. In my region:

1. Ledgers are always installed over the wall sheathing.
2. deck beams and posts are always flush to the exterior.

I wasn't trying to make a universal proclamation to the world, simply to those who have experienced the issue as described by the OP. I have no way of knowing if the OP actually experienced a bug in the software or if he just made a mistake.

Is it possible that myself and others think we know what we are doing but still make mistakes that cause us problems? Of course it is!

 

I posted my solution because it worked for me. I didn't like sending out completed plan sets with the deck beams missing and my solution has proved bullet proof for me and saved me time.

So I learned to use the power of the library and it seemed like an idea worth sharing. 

 

Perhaps it comes down to a user's understanding or interpretation of what 'Retain Floor/Ceiling Framing' actually does.

If I uncheck 'Automatically regenerate deck framing' and if I check 'Retain Floor/Ceiling Framing', then the framing should remain regardless of what type of future edits I need to make, right? In the example plan, I have done both. I've completed my plan and the framing has been edited to my satisfaction!

 

Now my client has asked for some other changes and I've inadvertently lost the deck room definition by disconnecting a railing wall. No worries, the framing is locked! 

Well, let me get my glasses because at first glance, it looks like the deck joists are gone. That couldn't be because it is impossible...clearly I am mistaken. Obviously in the example above I used a floor beam and posts because...they are still there!

 

Therefore the same must hold true for floor joists, right? If I delete an exterior wall, I'll obviously lose all the floor joists (trusses in this case).

 

Weird, I shortened a basement wall and yet the floor trusses remain. But the floor trusses don't even have a 'lock'. How could anyone possibly misinterpret this?

 

This must simply be an anomaly of user error. No one would ever run into this scenario.

 

Back to my deck framing. The plan was complete and my client has now asked for a deck with treated planks instead of composite. No problem. This will be a cheap and easy change because I already have different room types set up and the framing is the same...not to mention that it's locked!!! I love this feature because I can make this change, update a few notes and re-issue the plan and then head out for an early lunch! All I have to do is make sure that the new room type has 'Automatically regenerate deck framing' unchecked. Easy, peasy!

Wait a minute...something looks odd here. I can't have lost the deck joists. It's been unequivocally stated that this is impossible! Chief would never do this to me, would it? I mean, I thought we were friends...or at least got along pretty well most of the time. I'm gonna have to re-evaluate some things here.

Next time, I think I'll just use the floor joists from my library. They understand me.

 

A lengthy post, no doubt, but something along those lines has probably been experienced by at least one other Chief user. That's who my suggestion was for.

 

My sincere apologies to the downvoter who was offended by my personal preferences, methods and my lived experience. 

 

[rgardner]

47 minutes ago, robdyck said:

My sincere apologies to the downvoter who was offended by my personal preferences, methods and my lived experience. 

 

I am guessing they must have not liked the proclamation.  I gave you an upvote on this well explained alternative as there is nothing wrong with this method other than many have not found it necessary.  BTW Exact same deck framing for my decks.

[Chrisb222]

Like Ryan, I do not lose deck framing. Even when I don't check "retain manual framing." If I change the deck, of course I have to also change the manual framing, but it never disappears.

 

Maybe a PC thing...

 

2 hours ago, robdyck said:

My sincere apologies to the downvoter who was offended by my personal preferences, methods and my lived experience. 

 

Lol. Downvoters gonna downvote! I gave you a nice greenie to offset. 

[MoeGia]

In my experience this happens when I have a roof over (covered deck).  I've since checked retain framing and it has resolved.