There is a crack in my roof.


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I have been using AutoCAD since 1988, so I am quite comfortable there and on a small project where I am not having a lidar scan done, will run over with a laser tape measure and quickly nab a floor plan in seconds, retimage.thumb.png.dd3ea75a24139fb9ea6b9db1ff8987d4.pngurn home, trace it in Chief and see what I get for a roof.

 

That pasted funky...

 

Autodesk has AutoCAD, super slow for 3D of any consequence and Architecture, made up of flat images that would never make a client say, geez, I with to build that! The use of the two together gives a brilliant result for me and when I can get autobuild roofs to work to the bitter end, I feel I can produce a pretty good materials list.

 

Put in the Lat/Long and a good north arrow and the results are spectacular. Check out this as-built:

609141779_22_03.21Photo.thumb.png.0a9bb937e78b65922dd5f79524676364.png1277110052_22_03.21at10AMRendertoMatchtheTimeStampofthePhoto.thumb.png.e618434cf480d384895283e96b83e2d8.png

 

The client cares little about the trim where the addition is NOT going, but I am concerned about some artifacts and a crack down the middle of the roof where I am going to add onto, the gable where the single hung is in the pictures above. Zooming in, I cannot get these roofs to close:

image.thumb.png.24faf5cad8665b9e640a546ac3e1fd82.png

Oddly, no error message appears when I try to correct what appears to be an error to me.

 

Just go around to the back of the house and I seem to have a house that is going fishing:

image.thumb.png.d1571ff4d38901dc279a887873a5ce5c.png

I uploaded the video on my YouTube Channel from this site visit when tried to work out the roofs. 2 warnings, it is long as I do not have time to edit videos and secondly, it is the first time I have placed my ugly mug in a video.

 

 I do give up a lot of my methodology. There is plenty of work for all and hoping to build interest from youngsters in my home mining town.

 

I also uploaded the model for anyone wanting to see the guts of this project.

 

Mark Farrar

Certified Professional Building Designer

Knot Square Design, LLC

Longtin C1.plan

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Hi Mark , it would appear none of the roof planes are joined properly in the Plan,

eg. overlapping Valleys, etc. and the fascia's are not parallel to the walls etc,

so you will typically see these small  anomalies if you don't have a "Clean Model".

In 3D a Ridge showing a ridge cap tells you visually you have a good join normally

as they wont build otherwise, the "fishing rod" is another tell tale the ridge is not

joined properly ( likely a piece of fascia or sheathing), my advice is to always start

with Auto Roofs ( appears you went manual) which should get you 60-90% of the

way there and then turn off Autobuild and make any corrections needed. 

 

 

image.thumb.png.8b9bd524d6f10a4e70c65d58507a9e1e.png image.thumb.png.b263834a209b2cec001f89e2e2b86945.png  image.thumb.png.003175cc0b5ec805d456281c7e2183d2.png

 

 

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On 5/7/2022 at 11:05 AM, KnotSquare said:

Just go around to the back of the house and I seem to have a house that is going fishing:

 

The other tidbit I discovered to help prevent these (not equal to the correct angle) is the make parallel/perpendicular tool. Using this tool you can ensure your roof planes are always 90s or whatever, just not 90,123455 (draw a 45 deg line an then make it parallel to that line)

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21 minutes ago, jasonn1234 said:

 

The other tidbit I discovered to help prevent these (not equal to the correct angle) is the make parallel/perpendicular tool. Using this tool you can ensure your roof planes are always 90s or whatever, just not 90,123455 (draw a 45 deg line an then make it parallel to that line)

Or Grid Snaps? Curious...you don't use it?

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The first thing I turn off in my profile.plan is grid snaps. Since they were added I have never found a positive use for them other than having points to snap to that I do not need or want.

 

DJP

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2 hours ago, DavidJPotter said:

The first thing I turn off in my profile.plan is grid snaps. Since they were added I have never found a positive use for them other than having points to snap to that I do not need or want.

 

thats kind of what I came to the conclusion of...they were snapping too often to where I did not want. I'll also confess though that I never ensured the walls were on the gridlines

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Kbird, you are a good friend to take the time you did on this. I had to set this project down as I had a meeting at noon today with the owner of the Train Station. I am writing as I go through everyone's comments and applying what I am being shown on the other screen.

 

I too try to design the entire roof in Autobuild if it is possible. I got a little rushed here and needed a product before I left the home that day. Going back, I had used the parallel/perpendicular tool, but I am still missing something. As you can see below, some items were fixed, but it is nice to know where to find this information. I had no clue this data was in this field and would have never thought to look into "Selected Line". Surprised to see that there are editable fields in there.

image.thumb.png.fd6aceb02bc4c8c6dea7d44eedb2a7e0.png

 

Jason,

 

I just now applied the parallel/perpendicular tool to the red 45degree CAD Default line. I love this in RED as it really shows up great during model building. It can always be changed to black for plotting of any lines are drawn as part of the CD set.

 

When I applied these to the valleys I forgot that the roofs have slightly different pitches and it blew up in my face a bit. I still think it may be a step in the right direction however.

image.thumb.png.bb88c1f2cd4f9b945d3d76a1bb399c18.png

 

As for the fishing pole, I used the technique I learned at the beginning of this reply and changed the 90.xxxxx side of the ridge to 90 degrees. The roof would not join, so I pulled each side apart a bit and rejoined them:

image.thumb.png.05376ec0db1ec82c10c462a23021eb6e.png

 

Rob,

 

What are "grid snaps"? I may have to look that one up. I was using the parallel/perpendicular tool in the ridges, but not the valleys. Likely this was due to the face that I was in the moment and had not stepped away for a few days. Now I have done so to the valleys and with intersecting ridges of roofs with different pitches, it made things worse, but I am learning along the way.

 

All,

 

First, I am now a bit gun shy to turn autobuild roofs back on as I know it will screw up my Sunroom roof. Ideas?

 

I truly try to stick with autobuild roofs 'til the bitter end. I just turned them off on that really fun Train Station job I am working on. Now I have to add a Crow's Nest/Cuploa and a shed roof nest to it into the model. The client meeting went very well and she is so pleased to see this historic building in 3D.

 

Second, any tips on the best practice to get my fascia heights the same? I can do this, but I may go into the specifications of the Sunroom and copy/paste them into OneNote for this project so I can turn on autobuild roofs and hopefully restore the Sunroom without too much pain.

 

I may record that and post it to my YouTube channel. There is some good stuff on there if you also use AutoCAD and ReCap to build models in Chief. I combine all 3 softwares to get things done. Keep in mind that I have no time to edit, so some is slow or I may forget for a minute to switch the screen in OBS Studio. I try to hit pause often and may record my steps to try to repair this roof.

 

OneNote is a dream software, so if anyone would like me to do a video on how to power-use this software just make that request and I will do so to return the favor for all the help I receive here.

 

David,

 

Figured out how to turn off grid snaps. Thanks for letting me know that was an option. This may have been useful in the Train Station Project, but I would have to set the increment.

 

All,

 

I prefer that nothing in my plans is fractioned less than 1/8". This is from framing days. Over the buzz of tools we had a system to call out measurements for the cut man on the ground. If you wanted a board cut to 8'-6 3/4" you would call out "Eight foot, six and six". Like rebar it was all in eighths. Six Eighths = three quarter. If you need 8'-6 5/16" for stain grade molding or cabinetry work, it would be "Eight foot, six and three minus" or "eight foot, six and two plus". Also, for the guys in the field, use 1/8", 1/4" or 1/2" scales whenever possible. Carpenters do not carry around a scale and use their tape measure to scale off of drawings.

 

Time to get to it and see if I can fix this mess. I will record it for the humor if nothing else.

 

Thanks to everyone that chimed in on this topic. You, as always, are a wealth of knowledge.

 

Mark Farrar

Certified Professional Building Designer

Knot Square Design, LLC

www.knotsquare.us (DOT "US") or you will either get the furniture maker on the east coast or the strange website that I did not build, but they sure want to sell it to me!

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I did not look at your plan, but if you have walls that are not at 0, 90, etc., you must have been drawing with angle snapping off.  

 

Tell us what you see checked or not for angle snaps when you go EDIT>SNAP SETTINGS.  

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I didn't spend too much time going through posts and videos in great detail - they are just too long, but a few things did stand out.

The reason you had so much trouble locating dimensions and lines in the first video was that you didn't have any snaps turned on.

You need snaps so that objects can locate accurately.

If you are working to a tolerance of 1/8", I would leave grid snaps on and set to that value.

By all means get rid of the reference grid.

The dashed lines you could not select in the second video are Ceiling Break Lines that indicate where a ceiling changes from flat to sloping - a good indication that your model is not correct because shouldn't have those lines there.

I am intrigued as to why you think it is necessary to have copies of all your dbx settings in OneNote?

I suggest that you get some one on one training to help you get familiar with the program and speed up your work flow.

That house from start to finish should take about half an hour to complete (or 45 minutes if I was being generous).

How much time do you think you have spent on it already?

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20 hours ago, KnotSquare said:

Figured out how to turn off grid snaps. Thanks for letting me know that was an option.

 

This is not SOP for Chief and generally not recommended, but can be handy on occasions and is easily disabled with the Icon on the RH side of the program, ( black grid/red circle) or simply by holding the Ctrl Key ( which I use constantly ) temporarily.

 

It can , as Glen mentioned be a good idea to change the Snap Distance from 1" Default ( Defaults>Plan>Snaps) to the same setting as the Current Dimension Accuracy, though I change it constantly during the Day depending on what I am working on as the Snap distance is also the Arrow Keys "bumping" distance. 

 

 

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I am not sure why you are having difficulties with this Plan and the AutoBuilt Roof planes, as all the RWD ( Roof Wall Directives)

for Gables etc appear correct and Wall breaks are in too, only issue I found after deleting the current Roof Planes was the back wall

of the house was not aligned along it's length. The only manual work needed is the fix at the shed roof/gable intersection , which involves several breaks and the join tool.  ( I am not 100% sure Ceiling heights or pitches are correct looking at pic in your OP )

 

image.thumb.png.01b363edd9f674df87a854bbdb915cc2.png image.thumb.png.30e547abea07d75380a06664a7cda64c.png

image.thumb.png.ac513fd4b0116d45f813e9cbd8a7a307.png  image.thumb.png.7440b5f06f21e2a639c3d80f3ab895bf.png

 

Mick.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

the Snap distance is also the Arrow Keys "bumping" distance.

Mick,

To be more accurate I think that should read

the Snap distance is also the Arrow Keys "move" distance.

(I am a bit of a pedant) ;)

 

Tip:

This is true even if Use Snap Grid/Units is toggled off.

Also, if an existing off grid object is dragged/moved or drag/copied, it will NOT snap to the grid.

Instead, it will be moved or be copied according to the snap grid setting and remain off the grid.

Newly placed objects will snap to the grid. 

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