Raytrace Questions

[ChiefChris1]

I am not new to Chief Architect.  I am, however, somewhat new to this forum.  I haven't been on ChiefTalk for a few years.

I used to do raytracing often when it was a POV Rendering engine.  But since the advent of the Chief engine, I haven't really done any.
I now have a few projects and new clients that are asking me for only models and raytracing....interior and exterior.

I am OK with exterior since it's basically just natural sunlight.

But interiors....

I don't want to have a raytrace process for an hour and then find out that it looks horrible.
I am looking for some basic settings that I can apply to do an interior raytrace relatively quickly that still looks good.

Thanks in advance.

I am using X6.

[Dennis_Gavin]

Chris,

I am no expert but here is what I find.

If a room has a window or windows putting in sun information and have it shine through the window

really adds to the appeal and general look.

If no windows turn up the interior ambient to close to 100 if not using photons.

If using photons it depends on how many lights and at what settings. Usually you

do not want very bright point lights but you do want higher settings for spot

lights and wit cut off angle near 120 or so/

X6 is much quicker than the other versions so you can do samples a lot easier than before.

As always the more lights the longer it takes. Turn off lights not in the scene.

[DavidJPotter]

I agree with Dennis but also I would point out that the internal render engine is very fast compared to Pov-Ray, you can watch it develop on your screen and cut it off when you have a decent render view. Most of my interior renders take about ten minutes each for very nice products. It takes some practice to adjust material and lighting properties but within a few minutes I can see whether I need to stop and make adjustments and then start a new render view using the ray-tracer.

How long it takes depends mainly upon how you set material and light properties, only secondary is the speed of your PC.

Only use just the right number of lights per view (all light sources in the entire plan-all floors are "on" unless you edit them and their intensity per view) and each unnecessary light source (one that does not directly contribute to the view being rendered) makes the render time multiples longer, so minimum number is best per render.

 

DJP

[scottharris]

Take a look at this video on ray trace tips and techniques; it is long (1 hour), but it has good information.  One tip I like to do before ray tracing, is inspect my materials with a ray trace preview.  With the rainbow tool (define materials), go to the properties panel, and above the image preview change the setting to “show ray trace view” – it can quickly help you set your materials correctly before you run your main ray trace

 

 

[Electromen]

0. From the Reference manual:  

1. "Faster Ray Tracing

   • Reduce the number of surfaces in the 3D model by turning off all layers not used in the scene to be ray traced. For example, you may be able to turn off terrain layers for interior views, or cabinet layers for exterior views. See “Layers” on page 143.

   • An even more effective way to reduce the size and complexity of a 3D model is to

     use Save As to create a copy of the plan, then delete all areas of the model that do not affect the scene to be ray traced. Depending on the scene, you maybe able to delete entire rooms - or even entire floors.

2. Depending on the scene, a ray trace can quite literally take days to produce. There are several things you can do to reduce the time required:

• Image size is a significant factor in the speed of a ray trace. As you adjust the lighting and other variables in a scene, you can save time by creating smaller ray traces for preview purposes. To do this, specify a relatively small image size in the Ray Trace Options dialog. When you are ready to create a final ray trace, spec- ify a larger image size. See “General Panel” on page 943. "

[ChiefChris1]

Thanks for the tips....
And the video-link, Scott...I'll check that out.
Dennis & David....mine are taking well over an hour...and even so, they look like crap.

VERY fuzzy, grainy, textures & surfaces are not finished.


 

 

[ChiefChris1]

For example...

This attached image I set for 12 passes.  It took over 2 hours.
It's horrible.
 

[Dennis_Gavin]

Chris - is your machine in need of an upgrade/replacement? Also I think in your situation with this shot you need to up the interior ambient light. Sometimes you can also put in a 3D light or two to brighten up the scene. If you want tp post the plan I can have a go at it.

Oh yeah, you have the wrong football teams on the TV! 'o) Go Eagles!

[ChiefChris1]

I have no idea what football team that is on the TV. 

It is possible that my computer isn't up to all it should be.  I've been using the same computer for 8 years.  It was TOP of the line, maxed out when I built it.... 

I'll post the plan....there are three camera views I want to raytrace.

Magnum - Elevator Lobby Render.plan

[lbuttery]

Chris:

 

glad your back on the forum

 

an 8 year old PC is probably in need of replacement

 

maybe an upgrade - but more likely a replacement

 

what are your PC specs ?

 

Lew

[ChiefChris1]

Chris:

 

glad your back on the forum

 

an 8 year old PC is probably in need of replacement

 

maybe an upgrade - but more likely a replacement

 

what are your PC specs ?

 

Lew

same as they were when I built it. 

ACTUALLY...I'm STILL running XP!

It's nice to be "back" here...and I'm seeing a lot of old familiar names (now with faces)

[Dennis_Gavin]

Chris - can you send me the texture for the dark cabinetry?

I am trying some tnings but just a quick FYI, each pass takes me about 30 seconds

on my machine.

[ChiefChris1]

Each pass takes a few minutes on mine. 

I've attached the custom materials in this model.

textures.zip

[HumbleChief]

7 passes 1:28. Not great but you should be getting better results than what you're showing.

 

BTW I brightened it up using the Image Properties Slider

 

 

[Gawdzira]

Here is some info that I gleaned when asking about RayTraces. I believe it may have been form Jintu, this is for exterior but some of the info will apply:

Here are my typical exterior raytrace settings that You can try.
////////////////////////////////
A) General

Increase number of passes to get rid of the pixelation. Try 10 passes or more.

B )Lighting

Uncheck Use CAmera View settings and use a dark grey or skyblue color.

Ambient Occlusion: min. .1 - max. 3 or 4

Direct Sunlight: 4 to 6

C) Advanced

Check only the Use Photon Mapping. Caustics and Depth of field are taking too much time to compute, prolonging render time. (You may also uncheck them altogether specially for exterior shots. Lighting Settings above may compensate enough for their absence).

 

D) Image properties

Contrast - 60%

////////////////////////////////

Then I read more of the thread. You have an ancient computer. If you are running xp than being able to render your interior in one hour sounds stellar. Take a good look at the time you are spending to get the results and figure out if spending 1k to 1.5k on a new computer makes sense. You can probably quadruple your computer speed for about 1k.

[Dennis_Gavin]

Here it is with 2 passes, two 3D lights centered in the scene. Not all textures used.

I would normally adjust image properties wither in CA or via windows picture viewer.

I also increased the size for full screen. Also, increased 3D ambient way up.

HEre is another with adjustments via image properties, increased intensity.

[ChiefChris1]

These all look OK.
Thanks for the tips.

This is what I have now....5 passes, 27 minutes.
no adjustments

 

[HumbleChief]

That looks much better but 27 minutes? You could buy a new computer for the time it would save you.

[ChiefChris1]

The other issue is....
There is SUPPOSED to be a cove light around the raised wood-panel ceiling.  From what I understand, we can't do that in Chief?

[ChiefChris1]

That looks much better but 27 minutes? You could buy a new computer for the time it would save you.

 

I'm not just sitting idle for those 27 minutes.

I click raytrace, and then go do something else....

I'm not losing money/time while my computer processes the image.

[HumbleChief]

I'm not just sitting idle for those 27 minutes.

I click raytrace, and then go do something else....

I'm not losing money/time while my computer processes the image.

Yeah I know Chris - just ribbing you and I certainly wouldn't upgrade a computer till I was ready.

 

anyway 5 passes 1:41

 

Don't have all the texture either.

 

[Dennis_Gavin]

Here is the hall view. I increased the light settings to custom 100%, increased the offset to 6",

interior ambient to 100%. 2 1/2 minutes for full screen. Not sure what effect the block that the lights are in is having that is why I tried to offset the light below the block. I also increased the transparency for the lens.

[HumbleChief]

Better Dennis, I never have the patience to adjust all the RT stuff. It sure pays off when you do.

[Dennis_Gavin]

Ry tracing is not like turning on/off lights and dimmers in real life. It takes work

and experience and a willingness to do it. But you know what? IT is the future.

People will be expecting this more and more because people like myself and others

on this forum will be providing it.

[ChiefChris1]

Here are two images I just ran on my antique work-horse.

I don't remember how many passes these were...but each processed for about 40 minutes.
(I am cleaning my keroseine heater and putting a new wick in...so, I'm keeping busy while my computer thinks...It's almost time to turn the heat on in the house...)