craboulas

Flooring Quantities Include Area Under Cabinets

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Hi guys,

 

I was trying to get quantities of flooring materials with the materials list (wood, tile, etc) and noticed that CA is just giving me total areas. Shouldn't it be taking out area of the footprint of cabinets, tubs, etc?

 

Is there anyway to accomplish this without having to spend a bunch of time with floor material areas?

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Draw a polyline, or use a floor material region-open it will give you sq ft

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It just seems silly that the default behavior doesn't subtract flooring, where you would never lay flooring.

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1 hour ago, craboulas said:

It just seems silly that the default behavior doesn't subtract flooring, where you would never lay flooring.

At least half the clients and/or contractors I've dealt with would disagree. OTOH floor material regions show up in the material list- your problem solved.

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14 hours ago, MarkMc said:

At least half the clients and/or contractors I've dealt with would disagree. OTOH floor material regions show up in the material list- your problem solved.

 

 

Can you explain why you and half your clients would like to "account" for flooring materials where they will not exist in real life?

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That was "clients and contractors " because they want flooring under the cabinets.

For myself, while I make suggestions dependant on floor type, I only care about accounting for what it will be. 

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Not sure about other regions but here the flooring goes in before the cabinetry, cabinetry sits on top of finished floor. It's easier for the flooring installers as they do not have to try to cut and fit around the cabinetry. They only shortcut they might take is if they know the cabinetry footprint then they will not be so meticulous where the flooring meets the wall and will be hidden by the cabinetry.

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I think it is a Regional thing , as here it is rare to have flooring go in 1st , to much chance of damaging it, though I do it occasionally if a Client has future plans to change layout or type of cabinets.

 

Generally we use a false 3/4" thick cabinet Kick which is installed after the flooring to help the Flooring guys though.

 

M.

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21 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

I think it is a Regional thing , as here it is rare to have flooring go in 1st , to much chance of damaging it, though I do it occasionally if a Client has future plans to change layout or type of cabinets.

 

Generally we use a false 3/4" thick cabinet Kick which is installed after the flooring to help the Flooring guys though.

 

M.

agree here also.

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When the floor finish or some type of floor component is not planned to cover the entire area then I use a floor material region. An example would be in a bathroom with a heated floor. I use a floor material region for the heated floor as it would not extend under the tub, shower, toilet or vanity. I then use another floor material region for the tiled portion. Each region gives me the required square footage.

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I almost always specify the flooring under the cabinets.  That way if the cabinets are replaced (with a new layout in the future) there's no need to patch the flooring.  OTOH, if the flooring is going to be replaced but not the cabinets it's more difficult because the flooring would need to be cut.

 

It's really just a preference and a guess as to what will need to be done first.  With today's materials and the use it's probably 50-50.

 

ps:  20 years ago I would always do the cabinets 1st.  Now it's almost always the opposite.

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On 5/26/2018 at 7:00 PM, craboulas said:

It just seems silly that the default behavior doesn't subtract flooring, where you would never lay flooring.

If you don't have flooring under the cabinets, how would you ever get the dishwasher to slide out?

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You insert a small piece of laminate or thin plywood to match thickness of flooring -- Do it all the time.

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12 minutes ago, Electromen said:

If you don't have flooring under the cabinets, how would you ever get the dishwasher to slide out?

 

Personally I have always installed Flooring where the Appliances are eg on the last job under the Slide in Range , dishwasher , and Undercounter Washer and Dryer.

 

M.

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21 hours ago, Chief16Designer said:

Ca is saving you a trip to the store is giving you the extra 10% for cut and waist 

 

I don't agree at all. You have no idea what percentage of your total flooring area will be cabinet footprint. I would much rather know exactly how much material I need, then add 10% of that.

 

Since in the real world, people build both ways, it sure seems like a "flooring underneath" check box, in the cabinet settings dialog would accommodate everybody.

 

Why does CA tile under tubs?

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8 minutes ago, craboulas said:

Why does CA tile under tubs?

 

There are many such issues with the ML as it does not use Industry Standard / accepted methods for Take Offs , a pet peeve of Mine , since the ML was one of the Reasons for getting CA originally for me.... it something they have promised to work on for the last 3-4 versions but I haven't found it much better despite X10's ML upgrades.

 

Admittedly I have not spent alot of time with the ML in X10 as I don't trust it enough to use for bids etc..... it only contains what is in the model as well another downfall currently.

 

M.

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every one of my builder clients do not have any flooring under the cabinets, they might fill in under the DW or range but never under the cabinets. They are in the business to make money though. and build as less expensive as possible. If it's not on the plans , it won't happen.

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I agree that it's a regional thing, or a builder specific thing, or a customer preference thing. Somethings it may be driven by the material and whether it's a crawl space or slab. But, either way - a quick polyline will give you what you want! 

 

Where I was in Florida, the builder wanted "remodeling friendly" homes and installed ceramic tile wall to wall before cabinets. His cabinet vendor placed the shoe molding as part of the cab install.

 

Here in Huntsville, AL, engineered hardwoods or luxury vinyls are commonly applied over crawlspace foundations, and after the cabinets 'so the flooring guy can do his shoe molding at the same time."

 

Like Mark said, "Draw a polyline, or use a floor material region-open it will give you sq ft."

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As a builder, I would prefer to have too much flooring material ordered and delivered (and returned at end of job) than not have enough material.

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You could also calculate the net flooring area using the material list and the formula feature. However, since in Chief there is no way to identify objects , you would need to lookup the row numbers of the listed cabinet or orther placed objects in order to perform the cals.

 

Makes more sense to just use a poly line.

 

Another example of a poorly thought out but desirable (if it works) feature- can't understand how some of this new this stuff gets through Beta??

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On 5/26/2018 at 7:00 PM, craboulas said:

It just seems silly that the default behavior doesn't subtract flooring, where you would never lay flooring.

Depends on where you live.  In my area (Massachusetts) I have never seen anyone put in the cabinets before the hardwood.  Tile yes, hardwood no.  I installed kitchens for 5 years as a sub-contractor and I never installed a kitchen over sub-floor before hardwood.

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Yep, I agree with the guys above.  It totally varies from one place to the next and from one product to the next.  Installing cabinets over some nail down/glue down hardwood or tile might be fine, but over floating floors or carpet?  Not so much. 

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