Column dimensioning

[Kenneth_Miller]

TO all,

When I place a 10" column from the library into my plan, I can not dimension to the column framing, it dimensions to the base or capitol trim (+/- 2").

 

If I decrease the column size to take into account of the added trim then the elevations do not show correctly.

 

Same general question for handrails on a porch.  The dimension goes to the railing not the deck framing.

 

Thank everyone in advance.

Columns and dimensioning.pdf

[RL-inc]

The column you are adding from the library does not have a "framing" face to locate.

It is more than likely a symbol and can only locate the outside surface.

 

As for the railing - the rail generally only has two layers to recognize- the outer and inner.

Not like a  framed wall structure with a true framing layer.

If you want to dimension to face of framing you will need to either add cad line or points of dimension to actual deck framing on the framing plan.

[Alaskan_Son]

Here's a video going over a few pointers that might help you out Kenneth.  It goes over...

• Creating your own custom column library object using a cabinet instead of the pre-made column symbol
• Modifying the pre-made column symbol to work like you want it to. 
• How to dimension to those items that have no plan view snaps by stealing snaps from a CDFV (CAD Detail From View)

 

 

[SNestor]

6 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Here's a video going over a few pointers that might help you out Kenneth.  It goes over...

• Creating your own custom column library object using a cabinet instead of the pre-made column symbol
• Modifying the pre-made column symbol to work like you want it to. 
• How to dimension to those items that have no plan view snaps by stealing snaps from a CDFV (CAD Detail From View)

 

 

 

Very helpful...thanks!

[johnny]

Yeah great vid Michael.

[Chopsaw]

23 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Modifying the pre-made column symbol to work like you want it to. 

 

Thanks for another great video Michael.  I have another related question that I have that is similar to the Column Symbol that you demonstrated with in the video.

 

When working with a Millwork Symbol to be used as a Newel Post in an auto railing is it possible to have a 2D block that represents the post and it's moldings yet have the Bounding  Box represent the size of the post without it's moldings and be centered in the middle of the post?  It almost seems like it could be done and should be possible yet I have not figured out a solution.

 

Thanks, Chopsaw

[MarkMc]

4 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

is it possible to have a 2D block that represents the post and it's moldings yet have the Bounding  Box represent the size of the post without it's moldings and be centered in the middle of the post?

Yes-reset the bounding box as Michael indicates (I assume).

Then in CAD block management find the original block and insert. Explode, then move that, will be more parts under it, explode and move until there are no more blocks. Resize each, Block one, center the next on it, block...etc. Name it.

Open symbol, chose the new block.
OFFSET any axis needed (usually the Y axis as the X is almost always centered correctly) Save.

 

 

[Chopsaw]

Mark, I just can't seem to get it to work. I have only one grouping of items in my symbols architectural block ( 4 psolids ) so it seems that you gave me worst case scenario instructions and they were not all necessary in my situation. This should have made things simpler but after I messed around in X9 for about 1.5 hours I gave up trying to put a new cad block into cad block management and closed the file and started over and then that part worked as it should the first time.  Not so sure I understand this part at all or if it apples to my situation "Explode, then move that, will be more parts under it, explode and move until there are no more blocks. Resize each, Block one, center the next on it, block...etc." Is this the 2D CAD Block or the Symbol that gets exploded?  Any way the offset is the thing that I need to be able to change and it will not unless the previous steps that I am not understanding are the reason. Just so that you get a clearer picture of what I am trying to accomplish the item is a 2 1/4" Regal Railing Linepost.

 

Illustration A is fake of what I want and B and C are what I have.

 

           

[Alaskan_Son]

13 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

 

Thanks for another great video Michael.  I have another related question that I have that is similar to the Column Symbol that you demonstrated with in the video.

 

When working with a Millwork Symbol to be used as a Newel Post in an auto railing is it possible to have a 2D block that represents the post and it's moldings yet have the Bounding  Box represent the size of the post without it's moldings and be centered in the middle of the post?  It almost seems like it could be done and should be possible yet I have not figured out a solution.

 

Thanks, Chopsaw

 

Sorry Chop, can't help you on that one.  Not sure of any way to do that either. 

[Kenneth_Miller]

To all,

 

Thank you for the info.  I will be experimenting today.

 

Thanks again.

Ken

[MarkMc]

Chopsaw-

10 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

I have only one grouping of items in my symbols architectural block ( 4 psolids )

Are you trying to do this with an "architectural block" or a "symbol"? This only works for symbols.

I can't find 2 1/4" Regal Railing Linepost in my library so used another post symbol in the attached.

 

-To get a CAD block into management you name it after blocking it. Once named it should be there.

-Some symbol's CAD blocks are stacked one on top of another (or I've placed it more than once dunno), in any case I move the first one after exploding it to see if there is something under it-then explode that. It is the CAD block that gets exploded, not possible to explode a symbol. (it is of course possible to explode and Arch block)

Attached plan has original column that started at 2-1/2" and an adjusted one that will dimension to the post itself at 2" AND place correctly in plan. The new CAD block matches the desired size-IF it doesn't match the new size (bounding box size) it will NOT work properly.

Forgot to include screenshotss

 

Block example.plan

Edited February 13, 2017 by MarkMc
forgot screenshot

[Kenneth_Miller]

Alaskan Son,

Very helpful video.  Thank you.

One simple questions:

 

When I place my "Cabinet" column I can still see the railing.  I have the column fill set to background color, 0% transparency.  I must be missing a setting.

Thank you for your help.

 

Hide railing.pdf

[Alaskan_Son]

11 minutes ago, Kenneth_Miller said:

Alaskan Son,

Very helpful video.  Thank you.

One simple questions:

 

When I place my "Cabinet" column I can still see the railing.  I have the column fill set to background color, 0% transparency.  I must be missing a setting.

Thank you for your help.

 

Hide railing.pdf

 

2 best solutions that come to mind...

 

1. If you're using X9 you can simply click the new View Draw Order Edit Tools and move to a front group.
2. Probably a better and more accurate solution...Place breaks in those walls so your railings actually stop at the columns rather than building through them.  Just use a room divider for the portion with no railing.  You'll want to set the width of that room divider to something super narrow rather than 0 though.  I like to set mine to be 1/512".  Chief will automatically round this down to zero in the dbx but the wall will actually retain a little thickness so that it can be properly used to define a room.  If you leave the room divider at truly zero you'll most likely end up having that wall automatically upsize itself to a full width wall...not what you probably want. 

[DRAWZILLA]

I put those room divider walls on a separate layer called "Walls no show" and just turn it off.

[evergreen]

Brilliant Michael, thank you for that!

[Chopsaw]

2 hours ago, MarkMc said:

Chopsaw-

12 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

I have only one grouping of items in my symbols architectural block ( 4 psolids )

Are you trying to do this with an "architectural block" or a "symbol"? This only works for symbols.

I can't find 2 1/4" Regal Railing Linepost in my library so used another post symbol in the attached.

 

Mark, Yes it is a Symbol that I made from a 4pc. architectural block of polyline solids.  Took a look at your sample plan but it seems you are outlining the same procedure that Michael covered in his video. Sorry if I was not crystal clear in my request but I want a bounding box that is smaller than the 2D cad block and centered in the middle of it in both directions, without using a cad overlay.

 

Thank you for taking the time to help and if you still feel this is possible with the current software, please let me know as I also have another project that I am working on that would benefit from this to an even greater degree.  Send me a PM or include it with your Friday presentation if you have a solution.

 

Thanks, Chopsaw

[MarkMc]

50 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

I want a bounding box that is smaller than the 2D cad block and centered in the middle of it in both directions, without using a cad overlay.

I've never been able to make that work-not that I haven't tried.

[Kenneth_Miller]

Alaskan_Son,

The room dividers work well but then the deck border stops at the columns.  I can make it work though.

 

I'd love to know where you got CA X9.  I have X8 and checked for updated but none we're found.

 

Thanks

Deck border with room dividers at columns.pdf

[Chopsaw]

Kenneth, I believe that once you break the railing wall you must turn auto frame off and manually fix the framing and decking.  I was messing around with a situation like this yesterday so if Michael has a better solution I would also love to hear about it.

 

Check your digital locker for X9 it should be there if your SSA is in good standing or you will have to wait a little longer.

[Kenneth_Miller]

Chops,

Thank you.  That works.  CA X8 is a little finicky with some moldings as well.  Sometime I have to move an object and to get it to regain then movie back into place to look correct.

 

Another quick question:  If I create a "cabinetry" column in the library, how do I edit it?  Now that I have a nice basic column that dimensions correctly, I'd like to copy it and modify the moldings to have crown, etc.

 

Do I need to start over and create another "Cabinet" column or can I copy the existing and exit that one?

 

Thank you to everyone.  Still learning.

 

[Chopsaw]

1 minute ago, Kenneth_Miller said:

Another quick question:  If I create a "cabinetry" column in the library, how do I edit it?  Now that I have a nice basic column that dimensions correctly, I'd like to copy it and modify the moldings to have crown, etc.

 

That is one of CA's weaknesses, a symbol can be stretched and contorted in a bunch of different ways but not physically changed.  What I do is create an Architectural Block or Cad Block of some of my more complicated items that I anticipate needing to edit and save them in the library as well.

[Alaskan_Son]

I don't have a whole lot of time to get into all the nuances right now, but in short...

• Just drop your new cabinet into your plan and change whatever you want.  Nothing to it.  Add it back to your library with another name if you want to save the modified version. 
• With regard to the deck framing, there are many many little variables you can play with for this, but first and foremost it looks like you didn't actually build the continue the invisible walls all the way around your deck.  It works just fine for me.  As Chop said, depending on how you do it, you may end up with some goofy framing though.  Your best bet to deal with that is to uncheck "Automatically Regenerate Deck Framing just before you start placing all the invisible wall sections. 

Hopefully that helps.

 

If you want to learn about some of these things and the various nuances in a little more detail, please feel free to send me an email at alaskansons@gmail.com and we can discuss setting up a one on one training session if you'd like. 

[glennw]

Chopsaw,

5 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

I want a bounding box that is smaller than the 2D cad block and centered in the middle of it in both directions, without using a cad overlay.

 

Chop,

 

I can get this with most objects apart from a baluster (millwork) used in a railing.

Is that any use, or do you specifically want to use it for balusters or newels in a railing?

One proviso would be that you can't use the bounding box to resize.

 

Can you describe how you want to use such an object and I can tell you if my method would work for you.

[Chopsaw]

1 hour ago, glennw said:

I can get this with most objects apart from a baluster (millwork) used in a railing.

Is that any use, or do you specifically want to use it for balusters or newels in a railing?

One proviso would be that you can't use the bounding box to resize.

 

Good news Glenn,  I will give that a try when I get back to the other project.  I need to do a similar thing with a fixture symbol so maybe I will have better luck with it.  Strange how each type of symbol has it's own rules, but no mention of it in the manual.

 

I may need your help if you would be willing.