Rotating polyline objects in 3d view

[shingabiss]

I have created a polyline "handrail" object, as I was unable to find any in the library.  I am trying to rotate it in the z/y axis for the stairs.  One would think this would be the easiest thing in the world to do in a CAD program but I can't make it work.  When I get the camera positioned just perpendicular so it would know how to rotate it, the rotate handle vanishes!  Every time.  I use Solidworks and Sketchup professionally and would think it wouldn't be an issue.

[Chopsaw]

You might be going about that in the wrong way.  I think you will want to draw a 3D Molding Polyline in a section view of the stairs looking at the wall.  Chief is a little tricky sometimes. Do this in two stages, draw cad line and then convert to 3D Molding polyline.

[shingabiss]

5 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

You might be going about that in the wrong way.  I think you will want to draw a 3D Molding Polyline in a section view of the stairs looking at the wall.  Chief is a little tricky sometimes.

I will try that,thanks.

 

[johnny]

Chief is the worst 3d app, hands down, (Trump Quip™) when it comes to generic shape modeling i've ever used.  Next time you think about modeling shapes in Chief just go to your dentist for a root canal instead and I promise you'll feel more satisfied.

 

In all their infinite wisdom the Dev team thought people would only want to rotate a shape in the view it was created.  There are great limitations on what view you draw/edit shapes in Chief.

 

 

[MarkMc]

Can convert to symbol then rotate in the symbol DBX. 

[shingabiss]

Thanks Johnny.  Thought I was missing something or had become a dumkopf lol.

Are there actual handrails in some library? 

I see one can import STL  and OBJ file objects.  I will try this with Sketchup.

Punch Pro had a "3d workshop", very clunky and hard to use.  Does CA have something similar?

[robdyck]

Complex handrails can me modeled using 3d moldings. It's a bit tricky but it can be done quickly with a bit of an adjustment to the mindset. In Chief we're used to dragging and moving things. A 3d handrail that makes turn and has offsets requires a bit more planning, and constant awareness of x,y,z of each line and segment. I've used it to make spiral handrails, as well as to notch around a wall, and return back into a newel post.

If you post a plan, I'd be happy to take a look and see if I can help.

[Ridge_Runner]

If you have SSA you could download the Arcways' catalog; they might have a handrail profile you could start with.

 

Mike

[HumbleChief]

On 11/26/2016 at 7:16 PM, johnny said:

Chief is the worst 3d app, hands down, (Trump Quip™) when it comes to generic shape modeling i've ever used.  Next time you think about modeling shapes in Chief just go to your dentist for a root canal instead and I promise you'll feel more satisfied.

 

In all their infinite wisdom the Dev team thought people would only want to rotate a shape in the view it was created.  There are great limitations on what view you draw/edit shapes in Chief.

 

 

Sad but true. There is a way to do almost any 3D shape you might want but the methods are arcane and take a lot of guess work and learning to do so. Some shapes there are no short cuts and need to be created using Chief's tools. If you are committed to Chief it might be wise to dive in and learn them, but again, no easy task.

[johnny]

5 hours ago, HumbleChief said:

Sad but true. There is a way to do almost any 3D shape you might want but the methods are arcane and take a lot of guess work and learning to do so. Some shapes there are no short cuts and need to be created using Chief's tools. If you are committed to Chief it might be wise to dive in and learn them, but again, no easy task.

 

What sometimes frustrates me even more is when i've drawn a shape or poly solid in a certain view and then come back at a later date for a revision.... having to find the editable view all over again is beyond ridiculous and a waste of time.

 

 

[HumbleChief]

12 minutes ago, johnny said:

 

What sometimes frustrates me even more is when i've drawn a shape or poly solid in a certain view and then come back at a later date for a revision.... having to find the editable view all over again is beyond ridiculous and a waste of time.

 

 

I just created a p-line solid in elevation view to fix a 3D problem and COULD NOT find it in plan view. Created a separate layer for the solid, turned on the 'all off' layer and then just the new solid layer. Finally found it on the 3rd floor but needed to delete/copy and paste it to the first floor so I could position it in plan view. After a few frustrating attempts to locate it properly I finally got it positioned properly. Frustrating is an understatement and even more frustrating is there is no indication Chief will change the way 3D is handled any time in the near future.

[mattyt12]

38 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

I just created a p-line solid in elevation view to fix a 3D problem and COULD NOT find it in plan view. Created a separate layer for the solid, turned on the 'all off' layer and then just the new solid layer. Finally found it on the 3rd floor but needed to delete/copy and paste it to the first floor so I could position it in plan view. After a few frustrating attempts to locate it properly I finally got it positioned properly. Frustrating is an understatement and even more frustrating is there is no indication Chief will change the way 3D is handled any time in the near future.

I may be mistaken but I think the polyline solid appears (in plan) on the floor that the elevation view is set to

[HumbleChief]

35 minutes ago, mattyt12 said:

I may be mistaken but I think the polyline solid appears (in plan) on the floor that the elevation view is set to

Yes, in theory a very simple concept. In practice it can be simple or crazy making depending on the complexity of the model. I've been using CA for over 15 years but still get fooled by the arcane and unintuitive 3D methods the program employs. Should I have known it was on the third floor? Of course, but I didn't and with all my experience could not find it. As a matter of fact I have learned to look on different floor after many times being fooled about their location.

 

User error? Again, of course but why can't I figure it out simply and quickly?Just not smart enough to use the program? Very possible. Or is there something inherently difficult about the paradigm that Chief employs? You decide.

[johnny]

I dont know how practical this info is, but as an FYI I did receive a comment back from Chief on a suggestion to upgrade shape modeling and was told this aspect was a focus for improvement by the Dev team.  However, when that ends up being reality I have no idea.

[Renerabbitt]

Just thought I'd share, this oven was modelled entirely with chief polylines and moldings in about 4 hours... I agree that not being able to rotate in 3d without creating a symbol is frustrating but still workable.

[Alaskan_Son]

5 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Just thought I'd share, this oven was modelled entirely with chief polylines and moldings in about 4 hours... I agree that not being able to rotate in 3d without creating a symbol is frustrating but still workable.

 

That's pretty impressive.  Nice work Renerabbit! 

 

I'm agreement that Chief isn't the easiest thing to model with, but as you've just demonstrated, almost anything is doable.  I would also argue that for a person who becomes comfortable with Chief's way of doing things, it doesn't necessarily even take longer than using some of the other apps.  I think that same model would have taken a proficient Sketchup user a good 4 hours or more to model as well.  I know I personally actually prefer Chief or Sketchup.  Now if only Chief would allow us to convert moldings to solids...

[Renerabbitt]

6 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

That's pretty impressive.  Nice work Renerabbit! 

 

I'm agreement that Chief isn't the easiest thing to model with, but as you've just demonstrated, almost anything is doable.  I would also argue that for a person who becomes comfortable with Chief's way of doing things, it doesn't necessarily even take longer than using some of the other apps.  I think that same model would have taken a proficient Sketchup user a good 4 hours or more to model as well.  I know I personally actually prefer Chief or Sketchup.  Now if only Chief would allow us to convert moldings to solids...

Appreciated, the handles in this model were all moldings that were wrapped around a circle polyline and then converted to a symbol... I always keep a blank plan open to add a quick symbol on the fly :)....the main thing that is lacking for me in chief is the ability to create complex 3d shapes like textiles, but that was never really chief's intent...though I suppose if it is to remain competitive through the years to come it will have to adapt these tools as Johnny mentioned

[Alaskan_Son]

3 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

...the handles in this model were all moldings that were wrapped around a circle polyline and then converted to a symbol...

 

Here's another trick you might like that opens up a few more possibilities.  Instead of using a molding, try using a Face and the Revolve tool.  This will give you a solid that can be further modified using boolean operations. 

[Alaskan_Son]

BTW, since we're on the subject of rotating polylines...For those of you who don't realize this, you can not only use 3D molding polylines or convert your polylines to symbols to get this functionality but you can also convert your polylines to solids to rotate them.  These methods all have their limitations but they also come with certain benefits. 

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, Renerabbitt said:

Just thought I'd share, this oven was modelled entirely with chief polylines and moldings in about 4 hours... I agree that not being able to rotate in 3d without creating a symbol is frustrating but still workable.

VERY Impressive indeed. Nice work Renerabbit and I really have no idea how you did that but again nice job. Could you share the plan or a tutorial on how that might be accomplished?

[Renerabbitt]

50 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

VERY Impressive indeed. Nice work Renerabbit and I really have no idea how you did that but again nice job. Could you share the plan or a tutorial on how that might be accomplished?

Thank you, I can't do a tutorial at the moment and don't have the plan file for that oven anymore just a thea object file. Here is a quick snapshot of a crude recreation of the oven handle. Basically created a cross cut sectional of the handle and added it to the library as a molding polyline. Then the circle next to the sectional is a 3d molding polyline with that newly created molding. You can see the result in the orthographic viewing window. I then added the handle to my library as a symbol where you can rotate and turn any direction that you need. same for the cooktop trays, just one big molding that was drawn as a polyline, converted to molding, and then wrapped around a circle. The size of the polyline circle can be changed but I often adjust the size by playing with horizontal offsets instead. Hope that made sense

[HumbleChief]

9 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Thank you, I can't do a tutorial at the moment and don't have the plan file for that oven anymore just a thea object file. Here is a quick snapshot of a crude recreation of the oven handle. Basically created a cross cut sectional of the handle and added it to the library as a molding polyline. Then the circle next to the sectional is a 3d molding polyline with that newly created molding. You can see the result in the orthographic viewing window. I then added the handle to my library as a symbol where you can rotate and turn any direction that you need. same for the cooktop trays, just one big molding that was drawn as a polyline, converted to molding, and then wrapped around a circle. The size of the polyline circle can be changed but I often adjust the size by playing with horizontal offsets instead. Hope that made sense

Still impressed...

[Renerabbitt]

3 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Still impressed...

haha, cheers!

[Ridge_Runner]

Now that, my friend, is a fine piece of work. I could probably figure it out in say ..... four months!

 

Mike

[johnny]

Nice job Renerabbitt!  The fact you did that in Chief makes it even more impressive.

 

However, since the subject is proficiency in Chief, and I have modeled items like this before in Sketchup and Vectorworks - I think it could be done in about 1hr with an app more suited to shape modeling.  Sketchup and Vectorworks can create duplicated connected sub-components in those other apps would make the process much, much faster. 

 

To start you'd rough out the shapes making those components and then come back and refine each piece - but the app would then change all child version within the model.   Also, I could scan the 2d drawings by the manufacture and place them in the X/Y coordinates for fast reference and model through the 2D drawings.

 

If this was of interest to prove my point on efficiency, I would be willing to do a video of a recreate in Sketchup or Vectorworks.  I could do a time-laps set at like a  10:1 interval or something.

 

However, me saying this should take nothing away from Renerabbitt's work here.  Its top notch.  I just dont want to lose the message to Chief on how bad their shape tools are.