Question About Displaying Objects On Multiple Levels

[tahoebrian5]

Ok, I'm starting to sneak up on understanding how chief works... Just barely!

What I'm seeing is that objects belong to a level, and the only way to display things from a different level is to use reference sets. Please let me know if this is correct. And if so, is there any exceptions to the rule?

What I'm getting at is this.. I do a lot of very complex homes where walls don't stack and posts and hold downs sometimes go to the foundation, and sometimes get headed off and new posts carry the loads down, etc. sometimes I will have a steel post that starts at the foundation and is continuous thru various floors all the way up to the roof framing.

What I absolutely NEED out of a drafting program is a way to see how posts and hold downs stack compared to each level of the house. When I frame a house I always start at the roof, drop in posts where I can for roof beams, then I go down a level and if a post is over an open area I head it off with a beam and add new lower posts, if it's in a wall I consider the post continuous and go down to the next level, etc until I get to the foundation.

So, all that being said, what are my options in chief?

So far what I'm coming up with is using the 0 level for grids and use it as my ref set so I can show the same grids on each level to help make sure nothing is out of wack. If I was drawing in 2d I could put the posts on the ref set also and handle continuous vs discontinuous with different post layers. But I don't think that will work because the posts need to interact. So there's my issue. What do you guys think, and how do you handle posts that go across multiple levels?

[dshall]

Ok, I'm starting to sneak up on understanding how chief works... Just barely!

What I'm seeing is that objects belong to a level, and the only way to display things from a different level is to use reference sets. Please let me know if this is correct.

 

CORRECT

 

And if so, is there any exceptions to the rule?

 

NOT WORTH DISCUSSING YET.....  NOTHING MAJOR

What I'm getting at is this.. I do a lot of very complex homes where walls don't stack and posts and hold downs sometimes go to the foundation, and sometimes get headed off and new posts carry the loads down, etc. sometimes I will have a steel post that starts at the foundation and is continuous thru various floors all the way up to the roof framing.

 

REF SETS BABY,  THEY BECAME USEFUL IN X-3,  VERY POWERFUL AND YET CAN STILL BE IMPROVED...  I.E.....  THE MMRLS....  the multiple ref sets for a layer view sent to layout whereby you can display object FROM MULTIPLE FLOORS on a unique layer set sent to layout

 

What I absolutely NEED out of a drafting program is a way to see how posts and hold downs stack compared to each level of the house.

 

REF SETS

 

When I frame a house I always start at the roof, drop in posts where I can for roof beams, then I go down a level and if a post is over an open area I head it off with a beam and add new lower posts, if it's in a wall I consider the post continuous and go down to the next level, etc until I get to the foundation.

So, all that being said, what are my options in chief?

 

 

USE REF SETS AND PRAY THAT CA MAKES THEM EVEN MORE POWERFUL IN THE FUTURE VERSIONS

So far what I'm coming up with is using the 0 level for grids and use it as my ref set so I can show the same grids on each level to help make sure nothing is out of wack.

 

NOT GOOD,  GRIDS SHOULD PROBABLY BE ON A MIDDLE LEVEL SO YOU CAN REF THEN FROM LEVELS ABOVE AND BELOW

 

If I was drawing in 2d I could put the posts on the ref set also and handle continuous vs discontinuous with different post layers.

 

DONT PUT POSTS ON REF SETS,  PUT POSTS ON LAYERS THAT YOU CAN SEE BY USING REF SETS....  VERY SUBTLE DIFFERENCE YOU MUST THINK ABOUT

 

But I don't think that will work because the posts need to interact.

 

NOT SURE IF I WOULD AGREE WITH THIS

 

So there's my issue. What do you guys think, and how do you handle posts that go across multiple levels?

 

I JUST TOLD YOU,  USE REF SETS

 

I did a series of videos on ref sets,  if interested,  do a search for the MRLS,  do a MRLS search,  some videos might come up.  They are probably 5 years old now,  but they might give you some insight on how to use ref sets.

 

And then you can always view  CA's ref set videos.  

 

You are on the right track,  the  ref sets are so so very important and powerful,  you must take some time to study them and think of how you can use them.   They aren't perfect yet,  CA did a huge improvement to them in X3,  we are now lobbying CA to improve them by improving the MRLS to the MMRLS.......  

[tahoebrian5]

I would love to see your videos but unfortunately a search for MRLS did not bring them up.

In the mean time, I've added a post to my floor 1. I want to see it on my foundation plan which is on level 0. How would I go about this? Let me see if I'm close... I need to choose floor 1 as a ref set?

[Joe_Carrick]

Brian,

What you are calling Levels - Chief calls Floors. Floor 0 is the Foundation.

For Grids, create them on any Floor and the Copy/Hold_Position to all the other Floors.

[dshall]

I would love to see your videos but unfortunately a search for MRLS did not bring them up.

In the mean time, I've added a post to my floor 1. I want to see it on my foundation plan which is on level 0. How would I go about this? Let me see if I'm close... I need to choose floor 1 as a ref set?

Try using these key words.... "mrls videos by dsh"

You should now find it if interested.

[RodCole]

Think of levels as separate files, each containing all of what is contained on a single floor.

What you are trying to accomplish regarding a load path, as I take it, can be done using unique layers and layer sets that are specific to the task.

Reference sets are very powerful for bridging the gap between floor levels in plan view in 2D. Definitely check out the videos by dsh. But, if you want to show both the horizontal and vertical load paths in section views and 3D overviews, then you need to consider setting things up for that purpose.

Attached is a pic of a plan I did a while back that shows the foundation, level 0, and the Wall Framing level 1. You can show what ever you want, so long as you set things up properly. Generally that means isolating the members you want to display so that they are not hidden behind other surfaces.

Note: I could have shown the underfloor framing by turning those layers on and the floor surface layer off. Same goes for the level 2s layers. That is why you need to plan out how you want things displayed so that they are not obscured by other objects. BTW 3D rocks IMO. Love the 3D PDFs that can be done when exporting to other apps.

Good luck.

[keithhe]

When Scott says search for his video's he really means on Google, as they are mostly (correct me if I'm wrong Scott), on You Tube. They are informative, and entertaining and have helped me with more things than I could count.

Here is part one of the MRLS on You Tube, you should see the subsequent parts there too. I need to look at these again, as I still don't do this right.

[tahoebrian5]

Thanks a bunch you guys. I did eventually think to search outside of chief talk.. I'm a bit slow but I get there eventually! It's all starting to coalesce into something approaching an understanding. I see now that we REALLY need to be able to have more than one ref set active at the same time. Either that or have the ref set capable of showing items on any level. And.. Have certain objects that operate outside of floors.. Terrain and vertical framing members like steel posts. Fingers crossed for X8. I can see that this is probably going to be my biggest challenge for 3 story projects.

[tahoebrian5]

It just occurred to me that elevation and 3D views show all the floors at once. Is there a way to trick chief into thinking a floor plan is an elevation?

[keithhe]

tahoebrian5, on 13 Dec 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

It just occurred to me that elevation and 3D views show all the floors at once. Is there a way to trick chief into thinking a floor plan is an elevation?

Trick? Not sure I think a floor plan could really be an elevation, as I think you are implying, but this might work for what I think you are looking for?

 

Try this >>  http://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00631/using-the-cross-section-slider.html

[dshall]

..... probably going to be my biggest challenge for 3 story projects.

 You are a quick study

[ebdesign]

A layer that displays on all floors or being able to designate ANY object to display on all floors would reduce the complexity that extensive use of reference layer sets becomes.

[RodCole]

It just occurred to me that elevation and 3D views show all the floors at once. Is there a way to trick chief into thinking a floor plan is an elevation?

Please explain.

[tahoebrian5]

Keith did a good job of understanding my thought and showing how to go about it above (see his link). I haven't tried it yet

[HumbleChief]

A layer that displays on all floors or being able to designate ANY object to display on all floors would reduce the complexity that extensive use of reference layer sets becomes.

Brilliant. Love this idea.

[tahoebrian5]

I'm still gnawing on this problem like a dog with a bone because I do have a complex 3 story project coming up.

My main worry is how to show all the posts on the foundation plan. For example I will have floor 3 posts, floor 2 posts, and floor 1 posts and all of them need footings and need to be shown on the foundation. So how about this work around... What if I just put more than one level on a "floor"? I could create a floor like usual, put all the objects on their own layers, then copy/paste the stuff to a new floor and move them to the appropriate height. Thoughts? Anyone have a better work around? I do have my fingers crossed the X8 will improve the ref set functions.

[dshall]

I'm still gnawing on this problem like a dog with a bone because I do have a complex 3 story project coming up.

My main worry is how to show all the posts on the foundation plan. For example I will have floor 3 posts, floor 2 posts, and floor 1 posts and all of them need footings and need to be shown on the foundation. So how about this work around... What if I just put more than one level on a "floor"? I could create a floor like usual, put all the objects on their own layers, then copy/paste the stuff to a new floor and move them to the appropriate height. Thoughts? Anyone have a better work around? I do have my fingers crossed the X8 will improve the ref set functions.

I guess using the ref sets did not work. 

[joey_martin]

I use the cross box CAD tool to display my "posts" on upper floors. Then simply COPY and go to floor 0 and PASTE IN PLACE. Lock the layer you create for them, and now you have a representation of all the posts where they need to be, and on a layer that can be controlled throughout different plan view.

[RL-inc]

I use a method very similar to Joey's.

Working from the roof down with "Pt load form above" and "Pt load to below" posts or cross boxes I simply start chasing the loads down from floor to floor.

As I go I just copy in place loads from above and change them as needed to loads to below.

Loads that land over openings receive beam support and those beam loads are chased again.

This, combined with using reference displays and different colors makes for a consistent way to track loads from roof to foundation.

[glennw]

I think I do what Joey does.

I draw the posts on one floor level (usually the lowest floor) and in 3D, I make their height span over as many floors as they need to.

I then represent them on the other floors as a cad item as required. 

[RL-inc]

Glenn-

Why do you start on the lowest floor and work up when the loads generally get created at the roof in the first place?

Then additional loads are created from floor to floor as new members are introduced.

I find that if I chase the loads from the top down I can transfer load through the structure as it naturally occurs.

Just asking.

[glennw]

Rob,

 

Mine are probably less complicated than yours and usually I can visualise the load path.

[DRAWZILLA]

I use reference sets

[tahoebrian5]

Ref sets won't work if you have more than one level above the foundation that have posts that originate on both floors. Having to use cad blocks is not very appealing either. Unless the cad block can be attached to the post object?

On complex projects I use the software as an error checking device to make sure all the loads get picked up and having to move more than one object if a post gets moved is a pretty big draw back. I'll have to do some more experimenting.

I'm starting to wonder why we need multiple "floors" though. If objects are sorted on layers properly why not just put all the stories on one "floor".

[dshall]

I use reference sets

I do too.

If any body knows a better method, please share it, thank you.