LevisL

Beams to follow ceiling plane

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Is there a framing member type/setting that I'm missing here? I'm trying to put in beams to follow the ceiling (underside of scissor trusses). These would just be decorative. I've tried all the different types of framing members but I can't seem to find one that'll follow the ceiling.

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The closest I can get is using Polyline Solids, but the wood grain goes in the wrong direction, so I'd have to explode them and create copies of the material at different angles...

post-108-0-96087300-1447973247_thumb.jpg

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I haven't tried this but have you tried a set of "Ceiling Planes" to match the bottom chord of the trusses and then "Framing" the Ceiling?

 

If not Ceiling Planes then maybe Roof Planes.  Once the Framing is done you can delete the Ceiling or Roof Plane and "retain framing".

 

It might be easiest to do this on a copy of the plan and then create a symbol of the ceiling framing which could be placed in your plan.  Multiple Roof Plane Framing within a plan can be tricky to control.  OTOH, with trusses it's not as difficult to superimpose.

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Use the soffit tool.  There's video somewhere. 

 

jon

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If it's just for decoration you can use Soffits - they can be set up to follow the slope of the ceiling plane. Check out page 779 of the X7 Reference Manual.

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Great tip guys in regards to using soffit tool,  thanks,  a bonus point for each of you.

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BTW,  I have always drawn them in section.....  your method sounds much more efficient.

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I believe what I've always done in the past is...

Frame a small ceiling or roof at the correct pitch (even just a small section), take one of the rafters and put it on it's own layer " decorative beams" maybe), delete what you don't need, and then adjust/copy/distribute the new rafter as necessary.

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I haven't tried this but have you tried a set of "Ceiling Planes" to match the bottom chord of the trusses and then "Framing" the Ceiling?

 

If not Ceiling Planes then maybe Roof Planes.  Once the Framing is done you can delete the Ceiling or Roof Plane and "retain framing".

 

It might be easiest to do this on a copy of the plan and then create a symbol of the ceiling framing which could be placed in your plan.  Multiple Roof Plane Framing within a plan can be tricky to control.  OTOH, with trusses it's not as difficult to superimpose.

 

I ended up doing a slight variation of your suggestion. I locked the truss envelope and replaced the ceiling planes with another set of roof planes at the same slope as the underside of the trusses (ceiling surface, fascia, etc. turned off). Then I used roof beams and they followed the lower roof planes. 

 

If it's just for decoration you can use Soffits - they can be set up to follow the slope of the ceiling plane. Check out page 779 of the X7 Reference Manual.

 

Soffits work...sorta... I kept getting an error message that it couldn't find a ceiling plane above??? I got it to work by checking sloped soffit instead and figuring out my heights in a cross-section view. Still, after doing all that, that method is no better than polyline solids... the orientation of the wood grain was wrong too. 

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Why not just draw a rafter, and then set it to the dept and width you want.   Lower it with transform replicate 'move' in the "z" plane.

 

Of course polyline solids will work too...as will soffit tool, but for something like that, a simple rafter might do the trick.

 

I used polyline solids to build these dec trusses.   I wanted the detail of the reveals created by hanging the outer trim boards down slightly.

 

Lots of ways to skin a cat...

post-3615-0-37047800-1447989857_thumb.jpg

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I ended up doing a slight variation of your suggestion. I locked the truss envelope and replaced the ceiling planes with another set of roof planes at the same slope as the underside of the trusses (ceiling surface, fascia, etc. turned off). Then I used roof beams and they followed the lower roof planes. 

I'm happy that worked for you.

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Why not just draw a rafter, and then set it to the dept and width you want.   Lower it with transform replicate 'move' in the "z" plane.

I had tried that but the rafters were picking up the roof slope (4:12) as opposed to the ceiling slope (2:12)...

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Use a sloped ceiling plane and build the framing. Select one of the ceiling joist, copy and lower it. Resize and change the materials to that of the beam you want. Once you are satisfied, copy it in plan to complete your scheme.

 

The only problem with this method, I found, is that the beams (ceiling joist, really) will be deleted if you have to rebuild the framing of these ceiling planes. Placing them on a separate layer and locking it did not help. Maybe someone else could chime in with a fix for this problem.

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post-571-0-85179900-1448142455_thumb.jpg

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Use a sloped ceiling plane and build the framing. Select one of the ceiling joist, copy and lower it. Resize and change the materials to that of the beam you want. Once you are satisfied, copy it in plan to complete your scheme.

 

The only problem with this method, I found, is that the beams (ceiling joist, really) will be deleted if you have to rebuild the framing of these ceiling planes. Placing them on a separate layer and locking it did not help. Maybe someone else could chime in with a fix for this problem.

 

This is pretty much the method I had previously described above.  When I made that post I was away from my computer so I was just going off memory.  I went back and checked what I've done in the past though...

 

In my particular instance, I just left the ceiling plane in place and checked "Use Room Ceiling Finish".  It seems you would need a ceiling plane anyway for the roof in question.  Or you could create a second ceiling plane and just give it a finish with no material.  There are a number of other variations you can utilize and settings you could play with, but that's what worked for me. 

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.......The only problem with this method, I found, is that the beams (ceiling joist, really) will be deleted if you have to rebuild the framing of these ceiling planes......

 

 

I hear what you are saying,  but the mistake you are making is you are not building your own rafter.  Build your own rafter (not an auto rafter dependent on a roof/ceiling plane),  and it will stay in place no matter what you do  with the roof  plane and it's rafters.

 

 

If I am wrong,  post a plan where this does not work and I will take a  look at it.

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 Build your own rafter (not an auto rafter dependent on a roof/ceiling plane),  and it will stay in place no matter what you do  with the roof  plane and it's rafters.

 

Agreed, except the OP wants the beams to follow the lowered, sloped (ceiling) plane (see post #1 and #12), not the roof.

 

But since you suggested it, how do you change the pitch of a manually placed roof rafter?

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....But since you suggested it, how do you change the pitch of a manually placed roof rafter?

Put in a temp roof,  draw the rafter,  delete the temp roof.......  you could also do this to define the slope of a rafter for a sloped ceiling plane.

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Put in a temp roof,  draw the rafter,  delete the temp roof.......  you could also do this to define the slope of a rafter for a sloped ceiling plane.

 

that does not work,  once the roof is deleted,  the rafter goes away....  good question

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they stay if you block them together before re-building.

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they stay if you block them together before re-building.

I think the problem with that is once framing is blocked,  they are not visible in 3D.

 

I will never forget that first day you and I were in Monte's class in San Diego,  and he blocked some footings and posts and girders,  and they were not visible in 3D.  The solution to see them was to unblock them.

 

Hey P.,  do you guys want the San Diego  Chargers? We don't want them anymore.......  we are trying to get New England or Cincinnati to move out here.

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Yes I remember, if you do your 3d prior to blocking it will be good, but really why after 10+ years, can't Chief fix that. We used to ask to show blocked framing for many years, I guess we gave up and forgot. I guess that's why Chief recommends to frame last. I actually frame very early on. I actually use p-solids for those.

Boy the chargers stink this year, maybe it's on purpose, so the league will grant the move. we do need someone, why are we getting 2 teams, I don't get it.

New England ,Wow, if you get them, good deal, but I think if they are willing to move ,LA should have them.

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I think the problem with that is once framing is blocked,  they are not visible in 3D.

 

You are right, Scott. The question is why are CAD Blocks not visible in 3D?

 

And why is there not an option to set the slope of a manually placed rafter (like there is with a CAD line)? And why can't these rafters be placed on a separate layer and lock? And why is wood grain impossible to manage when using Soffits, which is touted as the go-to tool for this sort of work? A lot of ink spilled here for something that should be fairly straight forward.

 

It seems the only option for preserving your work is to block (to keep them from being deleted when rebuilding the framing), and then to unblock in order to view them in 3D. Either that, or make them into a symbol.

 

For those who may not know, both CAD Blocks and Symbols can be added to the library for later use.

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that does not work, once the roof is deleted, the rafter goes away.... good question

That's what was happening to me, so that's why I ended up replacing the ceiling planes with roof planes.

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that does not work,  once the roof is deleted,  the rafter goes away....  good question

It works sir, you were correct.

Retain rafters after deleting the roof. Here is the plan for confirmation. I have deleted the side that has the gable and framing is there. This setting is helpful in a lot of areas when working in chief.

post-2517-0-78184400-1448234513_thumb.jpg

retain rafters.plan

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Ok I know this is silly, but the power to store temporarily using clipboard is very helpfull. I use it most of the time before doing any action that affects some part of the job. This case make a temporary roof then place rafters as Scott said. Finally Before deleting the roof , just copy it and paste it back holding its position.

The niche techniqu I posted last time was applying this technique. Draw walls, apply the material region, copy the material region, place the window niche and finally paste hold position and the material region will not be cut by the window. This is just FYI and i would realy like, if chief could have an option to store temporarily minimum ,a list of the last 5 copied items. and let me choose which one to paste currently. Just a thought, in my oppenion this would increase some efficiency.

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