somearchitect Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I've been working with tech support this morning. Started a new project in X7 this week and have been experiencing delays when in 3d view waaay beyond what I'm accustomed to in X6. Edits that force a rebuild floors/walls take 5-10 seconds to appear on screen, where in X6 they were nearly instantaneous. I'm running a very high-end system (specs below), so this is a surprise. No clues from tech support so far, but if speed is your thing, it might be wise to avoid early-adopting X7 for now. Chris Allen Austin, TX GX2-W Silver - Velocity Micro Classic Aluminum Case - Full Sized chassis with side window (-$20.00) Wheel Kit Aluminum Wheel Kit - Aluminum wheels make your case easy to move, with lock (Incompatible with QX case) Power Supply 850 Watt Bronze 80+ Power Supply (+$75.00) Case Lights None Motherboard Asus® P9X79 LE Motherboard Processor Intel® Core™ i7-4930K processor, hexa 3.4GHz cores, 12MB Cache with Hyper Threading (+$380.00) CPU Cooling Intel® Certified High Performance Heatsink DDR3 Memory 16GB DDR3-1600MHz (2 x 8GB) Video Card 2GB EVGA™ NVIDIA® GTX760 GDDR5 video card Video Tuning Advanced 3D Video Performance Tuning, Optimization, and Overclocking Monitor None Audio On-Board Integrated High Definition 7.1 Channel Sound Speakers None Hard Drive 1 250GB Samsung® EVO 2.5" Internal Solid State Drive Hard Drive 2 1TB 7200rpm SATA 600 with 64MB Cache Optical Drive 1 24x Asus® DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Burner Black Optical Drive 2 None High Definition Media Software None Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHampton Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 No clues from tech support so far, but if speed is your thing, it might be wise to avoid early-adopting X7 for now. Noticed something similar. As always, turning off the undo feature in the preferences fixed the lag time. It's as fast as ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDandD Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I am running a 4790k @4.4 on SSID's and 24gb mem and a gtx 970 overclocked. Processing power or graphics card dont seem to be the issue with. I cant tell the difference between using it on this system or a slower I7 @3.0 and an older GTX 660..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I also see this slowness, even with the latest update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somearchitect Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Update- Got a reply from Tech Support. They isolated the lag issue to a stone texture I used in my exterior walls (from the Coronado Stone library). I'm playing with it now, and they may have found the issue. I'll let y'all know if this fix doesn't work. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Update- Got a reply from Tech Support. They isolated the lag issue to a stone texture I used in my exterior walls (from the Coronado Stone library). I'm playing with it now, and they may have found the issue. I'll let y'all know if this fix doesn't work. Chris I don't think so at least not for me, I took out all those stone textures and still the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wheeltodd Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Slower for me as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermot Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 In general, X7 should be fairly close to X6 on most machines. We have found a number of cases where it is faster and some more obscure ones where it is slower. We made lots of changes to our rendering engine so that it uses different technology under-the-hood than X6 did. This is why some video cards were having problems crashing (but we think we have fixed that with the release of the latest update). This may also explain why some people are seeing some performance differences and others are not. Some cards may not support the new technology as well as they supported the old technology. You may be able to adjust some of your render preferences to improve the performance on your particular machine. If you are still finding performance problems where you think X7 is not as fast as X6, then please feel free to report these directly to our tech support team. These may be the result of changes to our 3D engine but they could also be the result of some other programming changes that caused unintentional slow downs. We found a number of these during the beta that have been corrected for the release. It is possible that there are others that no one has reported to us yet. Please be sure to include all of the specs for your machine, video card, and OS with these reports. Please be sure to include an example plan along with clear explanations of where you are seeing the slow downs. In an ideal world, your sample plan would be an X6 plan so that we could make a direct comparison of the speed differences between X7 and X6. Even if you don't have an X6 plan, you should still report any problems. We will still look into the problem to see if there are any improvements that can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Been there done that, still slow. Submitted plans, but its slow on every plan I do. Is my 780gtx to slow? It's still near the top of the fastest list. It has to be a program problem. I did a side by side comparison, same machine, and noticed a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermot Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 This is not something we can diagnose on this forum. You need to work directly with tech support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 They can't find anything, tried that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_Park Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I looked at the information you sent in as well and was not able to observe the same slowness that you documented on my laptop using either the Intel or the NVIDIA graphics. The 780 is a modern card that should not exhibit slowness due to the more modern techniques we are using. In fact it should be faster using those techniques. I'm still wondering if you have something like reflections turned on in X7 and off in X6 or something else like that. Verify the following settings between X6 and X7. If any of these are different you will likely have performance differences. These are all found in Preferences>Render 1) Set hardware Edge smoothing to 2x MSAA or None. 2) Ensure Reflections in Mirrors is off. 3) Ensure that Softare Edge Smoothing is set to 0 for previews. 4) Ensure that Command Flushing is set to Never. Items 2, 3 and 4 are likely culprits on an NVIDIA card while 1, 2, and 3 are likely culprits on ATI/AMD cards. All are likely culprits on HDGraphics. Item 4 could result in crashes or wierd artifacts on some older cards or drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I looked at the information you sent in as well and was not able to observe the same slowness that you documented on my laptop using either the Intel or the NVIDIA graphics. The 780 is a modern card that should not exhibit slowness due to the more modern techniques we are using. In fact it should be faster using those techniques. I'm still wondering if you have something like reflections turned on in X7 and off in X6 or something else like that. On or off, still slow Verify the following settings between X6 and X7. If any of these are different you will likely have performance differences. These are all found in Preferences>Render 1) Set hardware Edge smoothing to 2x MSAA or None. set to none already 2) Ensure Reflections in Mirrors is off. ok turned off with no difference 3) Ensure that Softare Edge Smoothing is set to 0 for previews. I have always set that to zero on both settings 4) Ensure that Command Flushing is set to Never I have always set this to never. Items 2, 3 and 4 are likely culprits on an NVIDIA card while 1, 2, and 3 are likely culprits on ATI/AMD cards. All are likely culprits on HDGraphics. Item 4 could result in crashes or wierd artifacts on some older cards or drivers. Still some slowness, nothing has changed for me, I even tried using a new profile plan instead of my template plan. I realize my CPU is an older slow type, and could be updated but I don't understand why X7 is slower on the same machine and same settings.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcaffee Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 P, I've just started adjusting my undo delay settings. I started @12,000ms and have reduced to 900ms. I'll continue to reduce until the pain point is reached, then bump up 100ms. So far this has resolved all the lag points (specifically when interacting with the library). jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Thanks, but it does nothing for me. I don't have a lib. problem. This can be hard to diagnose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I've compared one of my more complex plans with exactly the same settings in X6 and X7. I can't see any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_Park Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The slowness doesn't make sense to me. So it appears that probably the render settings aren't the issue unless there is something else is going on. In the interest of eliminating the obvious: I assume you have Optimize for Multi-Core CPUs turned on. I assume you are running the 64 bit version. Are your undo files going to your SSD? Less obvious might be the CPU. But the only thing that I could imagine that might be a problem is if you are running an AMD. Although I don't have any reason to expect that it would be significantly slower in X7, the compiler we use did change so it is possible that the code is optimized better for Intel. I think we already talked about this, but it is possible that the configuration of malware scanning is turned on for files generated in X7 and off for X6. My gut tells me that there is some configuration difference between the two programs. Either in Preferences, some add on software on your system, or possibly where the program is installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The slowness doesn't make sense to me. So it appears that probably the render settings aren't the issue unless there is something else is going on. In the interest of eliminating the obvious: I assume you have Optimize for Multi-Core CPUs turned on. Yes I assume you are running the 64 bit version. Yes Are your undo files going to your SSD? I only use 1 hard drive for everything--SSD 1 tb Samsung 840evo Less obvious might be the CPU. But the only thing that I could imagine that might be a problem is if you are running an AMD. Although I don't have any reason to expect that it would be significantly slower in X7, the compiler we use did change so it is possible that the code is optimized better for Intel. Have I7 930 I think we already talked about this, but it is possible that the configuration of malware scanning is turned on for files generated in X7 and off for X6. I use E-Set for all of it. and shut it down with no change My gut tells me that there is some configuration difference between the two programs. Either in Preferences, some add on software on your system, or possibly where the program is installed. Both programs installed using the recommended settings. Should I re-install b/c I was involved in early beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Thanks for looking into it Perry , my system is very similar to yours (i7-950 with 12gb) so I am following the thread with interest , since buying a GTX970 to replace an old gtx 470 really hasn't helped anything speed wise in Chief. ( couple of old games I still have on the comp , run much faster though) OS is on SSD here too but need to check where my undo folder is, as it maybe on the Raid 1.2TB Data Drives. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_Park Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I got to talking to one of our engineers about this and he mentioned that we changed when we generate pattern lines. In the past we generated pattern lines only when we needed them and for everything every time they were needed. This was changed so that they are always generated and then kept up to date when objects change. If I understand how this is working then you should observe the following: 1) Opening a vector view should be more or less the same as it was in X6, possibly a bit faster. 2) Switching the rendering technique from standard to vector in an open view should be faster in X7 than X6. Plans with relatively few patterns or simple patterns will likely not show much degredation in peroformance. If you typically open and close 3D views frequently you would tend to take a bigger hit in X7 than if you typically leave 3D views open while you work. There is the possibility of us make some changes in X7 to make this better. We will look into this. If you could look into comparing the performance of opening 3D vector views between X6 and X7 that may tell us whether the pattern line generation is the culprit. I would suggest doing a 3D full overview as a test. If X6 and X7 are more or less the same or if X7 is faster that would be a strong indicator that pattern lines are the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'll do a video for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 ok here it is http://www.screencast.com/t/YipCcUYUXRD I meant to say X7 is slower at the beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyToo Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I am experiencing this exact same slowness (have been with X7 since beta), and the latest release has not done very much, if anything at all, to improve things. Same file open in X6 and X7 really highlights the problem. It needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Good to know it's not just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-C Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Perry, have you always had shadows on in preview view? For me personally that would slow my system down quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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