Elevations, View 2 CAD or Live ?

[mthd97]

Hi, I haven’t used Chief in a while.

 

I am asking what is the most efficient way to represent elevations on our layout drawings ?

 

We used to send the view to CAD and edit and add some lines in to represent the elevations.

 

I know some have used live elevations to send to layout so that they will automatically update if the model changes when revisions are made.

 

With view to CAD in X10 or later versions, do you still get many lines produced that are not needed that need to be deleted ?

[Alaskan_Son]

6 minutes ago, mthd97 said:

Hi, I haven’t used Chief in a while.

 

I am asking what is the most efficient way to represent elevations on our layout drawings ?

 

We used to send the view to CAD and edit and add some lines in to represent the elevations.

 

I know some have used live elevations to send to layout so that they will automatically update if the model changes when revisions are made.

 

With view to CAD in X10 or later versions, do you still get many lines produced that are not needed that need to be deleted ?

 

I always send as Plot Lines (NOT CAD Detail From View).  This way I can Edit Layout Lines if desired but I can still Update View at any time.  Plot Lines also result in crisper drawings since they're vector based instead of raster.

[mthd97]

Thank you for your reply Michael.

 

I saw a webinar by Scott Harris showing the options for sending views to layouts with X13. I didn’t see an actual example of sending a 2D black and white elevation to layout with plot lines in that actual YT clip.

 

This video below shows what we used to have to do in tidying up 2D lines that appear on a black and white 2D elevation. This is an X7 example and things may have changed a bit since then ?

 

 

So how much tidying up of 2D plot lines do we still need to do with later versions of Chief Architect ?

 

I haven’t tried it yet in X10 but I am asking if things have changed since then because we are now up to version X14.

 

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, mthd97 said:

Thank you for your reply Michael.

 

I saw a webinar by Scott Harris showing the options for sending views to layouts with X13. I didn’t see an actual example of sending a 2D black and white elevation to layout with plot lines in that actual YT clip.

 

This video below shows what we used to have to do in tidying up 2D lines that appear on a black and white 2D elevation. This is an X7 example and things may have changed a bit since then ?

 

 

So how much tidying up of 2D plot lines do we still need to do with later versions of Chief Architect ?

 

I haven’t tried it yet in X10 but I am asking if things have changed since then because we are now up to version X14.

 

 

You should really just try it yourself, but my elevations typically require very little cleanup.  To be fair though, I don't recall them requiring very much cleanup way back in X7 either. 

[mthd97]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

You should really just try it yourself, but my elevations typically require very little cleanup.  To be fair though, I don't recall them requiring very much cleanup way back in X7 either. 

I will definitely give it a go and thanks for the info that they still need a bit of cleaning up.

 

It shouldn’t be too hard for the software engineers to get the cross section camera to exclude those lines that are not needed in a 2D representation ?

 

After all the back clipped cross section camera can control what lines will show and not show, by limiting the back clipped distance.

 

With the cross section camera we need the full distance but some of those offending lines can be excluded with the right program engineering.

 

I would suggest that they could create a 2D plot line camera in the interface that can exclude those offending lines ?

 

It could also be made to work with a 2D plot line cross section  camera that also excludes those offending lines.

 

I am surprised that they haven’t fully attended to that yet ?

 

It could make a big difference in what CAD software people will choose to buy or go with ?

[robdyck]

4 hours ago, mthd97 said:

I would suggest that they could create a 2D plot line camera in the interface that can exclude those offending lines ?

 

It could also be made to work with a 2D plot line cross section  camera that also excludes those offending lines.

 

I am surprised that they haven’t fully attended to that yet

The amount of unwanted lines is entirely dependent on the model which is dependent on the user. 

For 99% of my elevation drawings, I don't have to clean up a single line; they are perfect.

All it takes is about 15 years of practice and about 20 versions of Chief and about 15 different computers! 

[joey_martin]

Color, plot line, zero "cleanup"

B/W, plot line, zero "cleanup"

[PMMully]

28 minutes ago, robdyck said:

 

All it takes is about 15 years of practice and about 20 versions of Chief and about 15 different computers! 

Kind of like a golf swing.... lots of variables. 

[DBCooper]

Quote

I am asking what is the most efficient way to represent elevations on our layout drawings ?

 

Plot lines.  In a pinch, I can edit the lines but I try to avoid this as much as possible and only use it as a last resort.

 

I never use view to cad for sections/elevations.  This is probably the 2nd least efficient way to do an elevation in Chief.  The least efficient way would be to draw it from scratch using the cad tools.

 

[OldBarnDesign]

9 hours ago, robdyck said:

The amount of unwanted lines is entirely dependent on the model which is dependent on the user. 

For 99% of my elevation drawings, I don't have to clean up a single line; they are perfect.

All it takes is about 15 years of practice and about 20 versions of Chief and about 15 different computers! 

 

Damn, I'm gonna be here a while, I've only got 4 months under my belt! LOL. One of the places I struggle with "unwanted plot lines" is around window trim. So far the only way I know how to get all this trim to merge in between windows is to create mulled units everywhere. One of the problems with that is that the windows show up as a mulled unit in my window schedule, which isn't desirable. Is there a way to get the trim to "merge" so it looks correct in plot lines? Something in the window DBX settings perhaps? Perhaps there is an example of what to do in the sample plans. I need to look.

 

The other place is when there is some sort of construction/material issue, usually around roofs, rake walls, and floor platforms where walls get misaligned. They typically are hard to spot in Standard View and but stick out like a sore thumb in elevations. I guess it's a good debugging tool.

 

[robdyck]

5 minutes ago, OldBarnDesign said:

So far the only way I know how to get all this trim to merge in between windows is to create mulled units everywhere.

There are a few ways to get the exterior casing continuous. 

1. The windows must be spaced so the exterior casing from one is perfectly butted against the casing of adjacent windows. If they have the same material, they should blend seamlessly. For example if there is exactly 6" between windows then the exterior casing should be 3".
2. Remove the casing from all those windows and use a Material Region to represent the casing. 
3. A 3d solid can work as well but is more work than the Mat Reg.
4. In some case where there are multiple stacked windows with various sizes / spaces, the Material Region is the simplest.

[OldBarnDesign]

Thanks Robert for the quick reply! I have yet to learn about Material Regions so I'll check into that!

[OldBarnDesign]

Thanks Eric! I will play with that setting as well. The mulled unit is nice in that is magically solves the problem. But if I recall, it also treats the entire group of windows as a single entity, kind of like a CAD block so if I need to make a change to one of the windows, I have to temporarily break up the mulled unit, make my change, then remake the mulled unit? No biggie I guess...

 

[OldBarnDesign]

1 minute ago, solver said:

It's helpful, especially to others, to start a new Topic for questions. Keeps the forum cleaner, makes responding easier and makes information easier to find for those searching.

 

My bad, just chiming in on my limited personal experience with plot lines, similar to the OP. I was sneaky and snuck in my own question  I'll start a new thread next time. 

[DBCooper]

Quote

...hard to spot in Standard View

 

So use a vector view instead.  I have gotten into a habit of always dragging out my camera using my right mouse button.

 

Quote

 

...so if I need to make a change to one of the windows, I have to temporarily break up the mulled unit, make my change, then remake the mulled unit?

 

 

Try using tab.

 

[Alaskan_Son]

19 hours ago, mthd97 said:

I will definitely give it a go and thanks for the info that they still need a bit of cleaning up.

This is not what I was intending to communicate at all.  On the contrary, I almost never have to clean anything up.  I just wanted to stop shy of saying never. 

[mthd97]

Thank you very much for the Elevations with zero and almost zero Cleanup ?

 

Most of us here should be able to build the model correctly to not have to use too many work arounds to achieve zero cleanup ?

 

I am not going to waste my time on making Chief Architect do what it is supposed to do correctly many versions ago.

 

I have used other CAD software many years ago as well and definitely got zero cleanup and nearly zero work arounds.

 

This software is great for Builders and carpenters who don’t need the level of accuracy that the professional world demands of Architects and Architectural Draftspersons.

 

CA will do a good job of building 3D framing and worth the money as other CAD usually needs add ons to do the job fully. It will also do a good job with interiors and 3D rendering straight out of the box.

 

I have spent many hours on elevations and cross sections in CA cleaning up cad lines that I don’t need. Yes my model was always accurate.

 

I have up to X10 but I am not going to bother testing it right now or wasting my time.

 

Posting pictures of your elevations does not prove that you didn’t need to use any work arounds or clean up any cad lines ?

 

If you would sincerely like to prove me wrong, then please by all means post a video here ?

 

I didn’t see any official training videos yet that show elevations being done with cad plot lines, only with color images so far ?

 

Chief is definitely fast is some ways and in other ways it is not.

 

That’s just the reality of all CAD software packages available today.

 

 

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

20 minutes ago, mthd97 said:

Thank you very much for the Elevations with zero and almost zero Cleanup ?

 

Most of us here should be able to build the model correctly to not have to use too many work arounds to achieve zero cleanup ?

 

I am not going to waste my time on making Chief Architect do what it is supposed to do correctly many versions ago.

 

I have used other CAD software many years ago as well and definitely got zero cleanup and nearly zero work arounds.

 

This software is great for Builders and carpenters who don’t need the level of accuracy that the professional world demands of Architects and Architectural Draftspersons.

 

CA will do a good job of building 3D framing and worth the money as other CAD usually needs add ons to do the job fully. It will also do a good job with interiors and 3D rendering straight out of the box.

 

I have spent many hours on elevations and cross sections in CA cleaning up cad lines that I don’t need. Yes my model was always accurate.

 

I have up to X10 but I am not going to bother testing it right now or wasting my time.

 

Posting pictures of your elevations does not prove that you didn’t need to use any work arounds or clean up any cad lines ?

 

If you would sincerely like to prove me wrong, then please by all means post a video here ?

 

I didn’t see any official training videos yet that show elevations being done with cad plot lines, only with color images so far ?

 

Chief is definitely fast is some ways and in other ways it is not.

 

That’s just the reality of all CAD software packages available today.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow.  Troll much?

 

[rgardner]

34 minutes ago, mthd97 said:

I have spent many hours on elevations and cross sections in CA cleaning up cad lines that I don’t need. Yes my model was always accurate.

This is a contradictory statement.  I have maybe one job in a year where I may need to cover an errant line or use the layout remove plot line tool.  That is honestly being generous as I really can’t remember the last time..  accurate model will not have those lines.

[mthd97]

X10 Split Level Test Plan E1.pdf

 

I will test X10 when I see enough evidence that I need to do very minimal or zero cleanup ?

 

We had a big discussion about this very issue with Doug Park on the old forum over a decade ago now, and he admitted that some lines do show up that they couldn’t get rid of at the time from the view to cad method.

 

Some of the users here like to make Chief Architect look perfect when it’s not. Without constructive criticism CA will not improve its functionality.

 

I sincerely want and hope that we do have zero cleanup in X15 or later and when it has, then I will consider upgrading to it ?

 

Edit: I will start with a basic plan in X10 and send an elevation to plot lines and see what happens ? I may even post it here if it has extra lines that need to be deleted for some reason.

 

Edit: 2 Results above, please mind the pdf add mark. Wow ! I am pleasantly surprised that X10 did not put any extra lines on my basic elevation above. Door indicator lines can be easily turned off and on and I like them on. The window sizes can also be turned off too. I stand corrected. I like it when I am wrong.

 

Thank you all for your input.

 

Yippie !

[mthd97]

In reply to Ryan:

 

That gives me hope to hear that. And it looks as if they have done some groundwork about this old issue ?

 

That X7 video above didn’t show any improvements in that specific area just yet ?

[rgardner]

7 hours ago, mthd97 said:

about this old issue ?

I am sorry but you are using software from 6 years ago.  I would venture to say since at least X10 and most likely before that due to my skill set improving with the use of the software that there has not been a regular basis need for editing plot lines.  I have found without exception that 99.9% of the times those errant lines are on there is because the model is not accurate or built how chief is designed to work.  It can be done.  I do probably a good hundred plan sets a year from large full customs, additions, kitchen and bath design, etc. I cannot even remember last time I have had to use the edit plot lines tool.

[QualicoreHomes]

On 9/22/2022 at 5:47 AM, robdyck said:

The amount of unwanted lines is entirely dependent on the model which is dependent on the user. 

For 99% of my elevation drawings, I don't have to clean up a single line; they are perfect.

All it takes is about 15 years of practice and about 20 versions of Chief and about 15 different computers! 

Hmm I'm about halfway I guess, but you must have a VIP membership that you get 20 versions in 15 years and burn through a lot of computers . 

However, my question is, do you professional Chiefers have the same results with drawing cross sections? I find I'm spending a lot of time editing those and think it will take me another 25+ years to get those so that I don't have to edit a single line when sending them to the layout.  

[ValleyGuy]

I cut my teeth on X12 and have really not had any additional lines to worry about other than when I have a wall intersection line showing on an elevation - sometimes the OSB or drywall shows a line on the siding.  This is easily cleaned up by backing up the offending wall layer by using the 'Edit Wall Layer Intersections' button.  Other than that, clean as a whistle.

[mthd97]

On 9/23/2022 at 11:34 PM, QualicoreHomes said:

Hmm I'm about halfway I guess, but you must have a VIP membership that you get 20 versions in 15 years and burn through a lot of computers . 

However, my question is, do you professional Chiefers have the same results with drawing cross sections? I find I'm spending a lot of time editing those and think it will take me another 25+ years to get those so that I don't have to edit a single line when sending them to the layout.  

Very interesting observations with cross sections ? Is X14 still producing too many extra lines for you ? Are you using a back clipped cross section and is that any better in reducing the number of lines that need editing ? 

 

I would put it in the suggestions, if you and others are getting too many lines with cross sections. As I am mostly retired these days.

 

I have used Archicad in the past and had zero extra lines with both sections & elevations. Archicad is well supported down under with an Australian library and add ons that make my models and elevations more accurate.

 

If I lived in the US I wouldn’t need to use Archicad as Chief Architect would be complete enough for me to produce accurate renders and drawings. Even if I had to do more editing on the cross sections. Chief does a great job with cabinets and framing and is easier to use than Archicad is.

 

Archicad is very good for commercial uses and more free form Architecture to model up more complex geometry. I mainly do residential houses that are not too complex so I didn’t use it to it’s full potential.

 

Chief Architect is much faster at producing a 3D model provided the home design is not too complex.

 

Edit: (ie: Slanted walls and more complex geometry for roofs and other elements)

 

Chief Architect has served my building design needs since 1999. And I am happy that it has improved quite significantly since I started using it. I wouldn’t complain if I had to do a tiny bit of editing on an elevation or cross section now with X10 or later.