Truss experts

[Hammer7]

Hello are there any truss experts on Chief Talk today?  I'm trying to build a roof with mild complexity using trusses for the first time.  Two issues that I am trying to work through.  When I pull "multiple-copy" sometimes the auto feature is setting the truss to something other than the prescribed distance between, likely from some information below the truss and the other issue is the ceiling issue, see screenshot...

 

So two questions?  1. What would cause the truss to build outside the prescribed distance between the trusses on a multi copy instruction and what is the beginning fix for this error message?

 

Ty

 

[Kbird1]

Doesn't hurt to try the KB ...as seen in the Error Message.....      is one or the other missing or miss configured? other than that I would say post the Plan...... as the Truss won't generate without Both.

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-03164/message-roof-and-ceiling-planes-cannot-be-found-or-they-are-too-close-together-so-cannot-make-truss.html

 

M.

[para-CAD]

On the more complex truss roofs, I do the work in 2D, for export to layout, as best as I understand how the trusses will probably go.....knowing full well that the truss designer will input the design into his MiTek or whatever software and crank out the actual truss plan...stamped.  

 

I've never had to show a 3D view for a truss roof (framing) on any set of plans.

 

 

[mtldesigns]

1 hour ago, para-CAD said:

I've never had to show a 3D view for a truss roof (framing) on any set of plans.

Ditto to everything Para stated. Show desired 2D plan, let the pros do the rest.  My engineers won't even do trusses anymore either, they wait for the stamped truss drawing from the truss vender.

[Kbird1]

2 minutes ago, mtldesigns said:

Ditto to everything Para stated. Show desired 2D plan, let the pros do the rest.  My engineers won't even do trusses anymore either, they wait for the stamped truss drawing from the truss vender.

 

Likewise , here it is Code dictated so I don't waste time duplicating the Info, however I do like to put the odd one in the Plans at Cross Section locations to show it will be a truss Roof - with a Note that it is shown for Information only and is/will be Truss Eng. designed. 

 

M.

[Hammer7]

I agree with all the sentiments regarding letting the truss manufactuer use their expertise.  Im just trying to chase out a minor anomoly and make sure all is in alignment to the best of my ability and nothing is missed.  Im comparing notes with the Grandview Sample house and i have some questions and short of speaking with Scott Harris I am trying to find a resident expert on Chief Talk.

[PMMully]

I have done some "illustrative truss work" and found the copy function to work well only in certain situations. I had good luck manually placing them however. It gets a bit more involved with girder trusses, etc, had to play with the bottom chords, etc. Pretty much not worth the hassle unless you really have a need to look cool on the concept phases. I just overlay the truss company output given its the same scale, that works well. 

 

I hit that error in the KB several times, I just manually draw it in as  it is all just show anyway.

[robdyck]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:52 AM, Hammer7 said:

1. What would cause the truss to build outside the prescribed distance between the trusses on a multi copy instruction

This happens quite often and can be difficult to just 'notice' which trusses aren't spaced correctly. Interestingly enough, I just performed this function and had the same issue. It is because of the "Use Special Snapping" setting. Simply uncheck this for the truss to be copied and then perform the multiple copy function and they will stick to the specified spacing. This will also prevent the trusses from stretching / retracting automatically.

If you use the transform/replicate tool, the truss can have "Use Special Snapping" enabled and the spacing will be correct, yet the trusses will still stretch / retract automatically.

[robdyck]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:52 AM, Hammer7 said:

what is the beginning fix for this error message?

Don't place a truss in an area where that condition is present. That applies to placing a truss, replicating a truss or copying a truss. If you want / need a truss in that type of area, then you need to uncheck "Use Special Snapping" and check "Lock Truss Envelope and Webbing". You can then place that truss anywhere you want.

[GeneDavis]

I am fortunate to work in a small market where most trusses come from the same source, and that source has a truss engineer I can count on to look at my preliminaries and come back quickly with a layout and details, meaning a plan view with dimensions, and all the truss detail sheets.

 

I pay attention to transport size, which can affect scissors trusses, and he tells me what is possible so I then bake it into the arrangement of walls and vaulted ceilings and pitches and heights.

 

Sometimes we'll go to three rounds of revisions before he and I match and I am happy.  Most times less than three.  My goal is to be able to have a roof framing plan with trusses to match the layout the job will get at build time.  Most jobs are hybrid in some way, meaning part of the roof gets stickframed, and I want to see and control how it all goes together.  I don't pay attention to how the trusses are webbed, that's Mitek's job.  I do, however, sometimes need to specify tail size if we are going to get exposed rafters, and he always accommodates me.  They can place a 2x6 top chord end on a truss that is otherwise all 2x4, bringing the joint inboard to a node in an appropriate location.

 

The software he uses does not generate detail for hip-roof lay-ons, the truss-built elements (flat 2x3 sort of like a gable end) that lay on hipped roof stepdowns above the girder below.  I always want the vertical web parts to align to the monotrusses below, hung on the girder, so I do CAD details for those and he can use the Mitek or whatever it is to generate a custom truss so everything comes out perfectly.

 

I used to build, and loved the part of framing when we did complex roofs.  Watch one of my favorite YouTube framers doing a hipped roof fill job.  No lay-ons for him!  

 Note the cordless saw and no-hose nail gun, with hooks for hanging them on the framing while he measures or marks or catches parts thrown up by the guy on the floor below.  I have been both those guys.  I love doing trussed arrangements in Chief.

 

This image is of one (done back in X5) when I was that guy, in the trusses and on the floor.  The detail pages for the job, one truss per sheet, was over 75 pages.  When it was time to sheath the roof, done in 5/8 OSB, I was the ground guy and handed up all 212 sheets, most full, a lot cut.

 

  

[ShaneK]

I do love trusses,,,,,, 

[jtcapa1]

During the supply chain delays, I had one contractor request I provide the truss layout and show the revised shape so he could build them by hand.

The local truss shops were so far behind it did not make sense to wait on a small remodel.

[PMMully]

@Hammer7

I just watched a series of videos by Scott on Truss Framing. I would suggest watching the series. There is a lot more truss capability in CA than at least I thought. I just never dove in due to the way I work with the truss companies. As the video claims, it is not an engineered product, but on complex jobs may be valuable to the build crews to visualize the end game, and info to the truss designer as to the need. But I have to admit, it is powerful. The series also answers a lot of questions I have seen on this forum on my time here on how to do stuff.

 

@ShaneK smokin' hot stuff.