Toolbars corrupting in X13

[RL-inc]

I wanted to reach out to the forum before I head for tech support on this again.

 

I have been using X13 for a few weeks and just had my first instance of toolbars whacking out when I drag a view from one monitor to another.

This was a thread that was up and running with X12 and tech had no resolution- I was really hoping that it was resolved in X13.

 

Has anyone experienced anything similar?

 

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, RL-inc said:

I wanted to reach out to the forum before I head for tech support on this again.

 

I have been using X13 for a few weeks and just had my first instance of toolbars whacking out when I drag a view from one monitor to another.

This was a thread that was up and running with X12 and tech had no resolution- I was really hoping that it was resolved in X13.

 

Has anyone experienced anything similar?

 

 

I had Issues when I got my new Computer with the Beta , but am not sure if the Public Release or me copying my X12 Toolbars folder into X13 fixed it as I have not had an issue for a while, but I have mostly been in X12 finishing Projects there of late , so it may just take some time ?  I did not have Issues in X12 with this though....

 

I had this Issue 1se with the offset dropdowns , then I had the fully corrupted Toolbars like you after that.

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/30482-menu-bug-issue-a-different-one/?tab=comments#comment-241177

 

[rgardner]

I saw the issue in x12 and have not experienced it in x13 during beta or public.

[DavidJPotter]

11 hours ago, RL-inc said:

Has anyone experienced anything similar?

 

No,not in Beta or now.

 

DJP

[Kiwideziner]

No problems with toolbars here.

[dshall]

I got the corrupt tool bars for the first time (I think first time) in X13 just the other day.

 

I never know what I did to cause this malfunction.  I leave my tool bars alone....  I never move them or customize them anymore yet the corruption occasionally lifts its nasty head. grrrrrrrr......  

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, dshall said:

I got the corrupt tool bars for the first time (I think first time) in X13 just the other day.

 

I never know what I did to cause this malfunction.  I leave my tool bars alone....  I never move them or customize them anymore yet the corruption occasionally lifts its nasty head. grrrrrrrr......  

 

Usually associated with Multi Monitor setups and having the Sidebars ( PB, Lib. ,ALDO) on other screens

 

M.

[dshall]

2 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Usually associated with Multi Monitor setups and having the Sidebars ( PB, Lib. ,ALDO) on other screens

 

M.

 

2 monitors,  all sidebars stay on main monitor where CA resides.  

 

I think you are correct.,  it is a multiple monitor issue.  It seems Brian keeps telling me that. 

[RL-inc]

Thanks- not hoping to drag anyone else down but good to know I'm not in this alone.

 

Any chance we can get "Brian" to chime in on his experience with dual monitor issue?

The reason I am asking is this is exactly what causes it in my case- grabbing a view and dragging- sometimes quickly- to the 2nd monitor.

Maybe graphics card issue?

 

 

Side note -

I sent screenshots of the situation as well as my toolbars to Carrie at Tech support when this occurred in X12 - she hoped they had it resolved for X13-

guess not completely.

 

[RL-inc]

Just had same issue again-

Please see attached screen shot of toolbars after corruption.

occurred when I drug layout view to 2nd monitor.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated -

Zero time for this right now -

 

 

[Kbird1]

Are you still on X12 ?   I never had the issue on X12 but did on X13 during beta, made it un-usable, but it has stopped since the latest X13 Update for me.

 

M.

[richoffan]

Have you tried disabling Nahimic? Until I came across Mick's post NOTHING would stop the weird s** lets call it stuff from happening on my new Alienware hooked up to (2) external monitors. Tech, good as they are, had no solution. The problem was at its worse when dragging a window to another monitor. Disabled Nahimic and no more problems - worth a try. I'll repost K Birds post from about a year ago. Saved me a bottle of xanax  

Since the Alienwares and NVIDIA cards are so tuned to gamers I think that setup is especially sensitive to the interference

 

 

Some info appears to have disappeared from the Forum about this Issue so this is just a repost for Future Users to find ie a PSA.

 

** Removing the Sonic Radar Win 10 App only solved it for me, there was no need to remove Sonic Studio App or the " Nahimic Service"

which is needed for Sonic Studio to work, though some have reported they had to remove both the Sonic Apps to solve this.

 

(Sonic Radar is a 3D sound Source App for Gamers, which causes the Issue as it senses CA as a 3D game but CA does not have any Audio)

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Nahimic Service is the Issue , it can be stopped in the Services App ( Service.msc in the Run Dialog)

and configured for manual start only or disabled, at least as a Test to see if your issue is indeed Nahimic.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The are several reports online also posting about Nahimic having a White and Black List , and adding Chief to the Blacklist may work but personally I did not try that.

 

Hi Yes there is known issue between Nahimic 3 and other applications (Maya, Substance Painter, 3D applications using OpenGL ). This primary happens when application is started on secondary monitors. some more research is found here:

 

https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/rhino-freezes-on-secondary-monitor-problem-with-the-nihimic-audio-driver-on-the-motherboard/82258/39

 

All fixes are just .......uninstall the Nahimic 3 Apps....ie Sonic Radar  ( game sound detector) and Sonic Studio (equalizer)

 

For us who don't want accept that solution here is simple fix:

 

Locate this nahimic blacklist  ( maybe in a slightly different place on your PC eg if you have a Dell , see below)

 

C:\ProgramData\A-Volute\A-Volute.Nahimic\Modules\Scheduled\Configurator\BlackApps.dat

 

and insert your affected executable application to avoid injecting your application by Nahimic tested on Substance Painter.exe

There is no needed to restart PC or Nahimic Service Just save file.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  On 9/19/2020 at 9:25 PM, Kbird1 said:

Diane another CA Forum User reports that Dell / Alienware Users should look Here for the White/Black List

 

This has worked for me, so far at least. For my laptop Alienware m17r3 the file location is:

 

C:\ProgramData\A-Volute\DellInc.AlienwareSoundCenter\Modules\ScheduledModules\Configurator\BlackApps.dat

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Mick.

[RL-inc]

thank you both-

using X13 with latest update.

 

will look into Nahimic and report back

[Kbird1]

26 minutes ago, RL-inc said:

thank you both-

using X13 with latest update.

 

will look into Nahimic and report back

 

I remember you  uninstalling Nahimic last year but a Dell update may have slipped it back onto the system?

 

Chief now acknowledges this Issue as a Known incompatibility along with RivaTuner and several other Apps.

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/products/known-incompatibilities.html

 

Mick.

[RL-inc]

Good afternoon-

I have been fighting through this consistently for better than a month with limited success in resolution.

I uninstalled Nahimic per Mick' suggestion and still am having issues- at minimum once a day.

(side note on Nahimic- when I search for it it does not show up in any programs I can remove - it does however show up as being used by audiodg.exe -am wondering if all should be deleted?)

 

I do have my IT guy coming over tomorrow am to give the system a thorough check up and confirm drivers are up to date- etc.....

 

I have also requested a screen share with a CA tech so they can see how this is taking place.

I feel like the toolbars in general are always unstable at this point-
Whenever I adjust the configuration of one- say in CAD for instance - the configuration of another is affected.
This is consistent between any configuration I work through?

 

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[Kbird1]

19 minutes ago, RL-inc said:

Good afternoon-

I have been fighting through this consistently for better than a month with limited success in resolution.

I uninstalled Nahimic per Mick' suggestion and still am having issues- at minimum once a day.

(side note on Nahimic- when I search for it it does not show up in any programs I can remove - it does however show up as being used by audiodg.exe -am wondering if all should be deleted?)

 

I do have my IT guy coming over tomorrow am to give the system a thorough check up and confirm drivers are up to date- etc.....

 

I have also requested a screen share with a CA tech so they can see how this is taking place.

I feel like the toolbars in general are always unstable at this point-
Whenever I adjust the configuration of one- say in CAD for instance - the configuration of another is affected.
This is consistent between any configuration I work through?

 

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

The Nahimic Issue is related to Multi-Monitor Setups and trying to use Chief's Side Windows like the Library on a 2nd Monitor,

as far as I am aware it is not the cause of the corrupt Toolbars which is another Issue , some including myself in X13 Beta (only)

had some issues with. 

 

The Nahimic App on my laptop with the multi-monitor issue is called Sonic Radar ( 1,2 or 3) , it is a 3D Audio positioning system for gaming

which get messed up since although Chief is 3D it has no audio component. I un-install Sonic Radar but was able to leave Sonic Studio installed with no issues.

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/28384-multi-monitor-issue-fix-for-computers-with-nahimic-audio/?tab=comments#comment-226782

 

The Toolbars are not consistent between Views , though you could configure them that way with the customization tool but will likely see blank spaces

as some tools are not available in some Views. for eg you can't dimension in 3D

 

Dermot did mention in a thread last week(?) about missing toolbars, ( a different issue) that he thought this corruption issue was fixed since the last Update ( 23.2.1.3x64)

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/32057-missing-toolbars/?do=findComment&comment=253640

 

@Dermot

 

Mick.

[Dermot]

As far as I know, the main cause of toolbar corruption has been fixed in X13 and we have had no new reports of this problem.  The problem we fixed had to do with all of the toolbar buttons being right on top of each other in the upper left corner.  We were never able to reproduce this problem reliably, but because no one has reported it to us in X13, we are somewhat confident that it has been fixed.

 

Based on the picture you posted above, it does not look like you are experiencing the same problem.  Since you did not post a "before" picture, it's pretty hard to know what changed for you.  My best guess is that this is a different bug that we are not aware of.

 

First, make sure you are using the latest update (23.2.1.3).   Then, assuming that you can still reproduce this problem, please work with our technical support to try and resolve this issue.  If you are able to show them how you can reproduce this problem, this could go a long way towards helping us fix it.  We will probably also need your toolbar files and some more details about your system.  If we can reproduce this problem, then it is very possible that we can fix it in another update.  

 

[RL-inc]

Thanks Mick-

I am going to go through all of this with Todd- aforementioned IT guy- tomorrow and follow up here.

 

[RL-inc]

2 minutes ago, Dermot said:

As far as I know, the main cause of toolbar corruption has been fixed in X13 and we have had no new reports of this problem.  The problem we fixed had to do with all of the toolbar buttons being right on top of each other in the upper left corner.  We were never able to reproduce this problem reliably, but because no one has reported it to us in X13, we are somewhat confident that it has been fixed.

 

Based on the picture you posted above, it does not look like you are experiencing the same problem.  Since you did not post a "before" picture, it's pretty hard to know what changed for you.  My best guess is that this is a different bug that we are not aware of.

 

First, make sure you are using the latest update (23.2.1.3).   Then, assuming that you can still reproduce this problem, please work with our technical support to try and resolve this issue.  If you are able to show them how you can reproduce this problem, this could go a long way towards helping us fix it.  We will probably also need your toolbar files and some more details about your system.  If we can reproduce this problem, then it is very possible that we can fix it in another update.  

 

 

Thanks Dermot-

I have been working with Carrie on this and have sent her all system info and toolbar files requested from previous episodes.

The problem you mention above with all toolbars landing in the upper left corner is a partial symptom of the condition I am experiencing.

 

Maybe you can connect with here and she can provide some info as to what she has been doing?

 

 

 

[RL-inc]

In regards to Mick's comment:

 

"The Toolbars are not consistent between Views , though you could configure them that way with the customization tool but will likely see blank spaces

as some tools are not available in some Views. for eg you can't dimension in 3D"

 

I totally understand that aspect - but what is happening is when slide one tool line around in say CAD view, my toolbars in plan or elevation view are altered - and not particularly consistent with the adjustment made in CAD- am I making sense here?

 

 

 

Carrie- CA tech support- suggested inserting "empty space" tools to ensure the configurations were basically "full" or "locked in"

 

Her quoted response from my submittal here:

"One thing I’d like you to try, since you like to have the toolbars spaced a bit, is to use the “Empty Space” toolbar item for the padding between toolbars.
You can use the empty item to create an empty toolbar that should maintain the distance. Just add it like you do any other custom item.
I just learned about this item today and I’m truly sorry I didn’t know about this item before, I would have had you try it long ago."

 

Did not seem to help - and realistically had never had to deal with that before.

[Kbird1]

6 minutes ago, RL-inc said:

In regards to Mick's comment:

 

"The Toolbars are not consistent between Views , though you could configure them that way with the customization tool but will likely see blank spaces

as some tools are not available in some Views. for eg you can't dimension in 3D"

 

I totally understand that aspect - but what is happening is when slide one tool line around in say CAD view, my toolbars in plan or elevation view are altered - and not particularly consistent with the adjustment made in CAD- am I making sense here?

 

 

 

Carrie- CA tech support- suggested inserting "empty space" tools to ensure the configurations were basically "full" or "locked in"

 

Her quoted response from my submittal here:

"One thing I’d like you to try, since you like to have the toolbars spaced a bit, is to use the “Empty Space” toolbar item for the padding between toolbars.
You can use the empty item to create an empty toolbar that should maintain the distance. Just add it like you do any other custom item.
I just learned about this item today and I’m truly sorry I didn’t know about this item before, I would have had you try it long ago."

 

Did not seem to help - and realistically had never had to deal with that before.

 

If you don't Lock your Toolbars , you will find that some will change and move on you , I also use the empty space in my custom Toolbar config. which I originally copied from the Extended Configuration , but I do have less issues if I keep them locked , if you see 3 dots, they are not locked. They are automatically unlocked if you go in to customize and then relock when done if the lock toggle is on.

 

Mick.

[RL-inc]

Thanks Mick-

keep em locked all the time- still no good

[kylejmarsh]

I know this issue well, though I haven't seen it much in X13. If I'm not mistaken, I was able to trace it back to a specific tool in one of my custom toolbars that didn't exist anymore. Or perhaps it was a single tool which appeared in two different toolbars? I do remember it was some flaw in my toolbar arrangement.

 

Other steps I took before figuring it out: 

1) Kept all toolbars in the same position and turned on for all views - 3d, cad, 2d, layout, rendering, all of them. This keeps them from flickering around when you switch back and fourth and they just turn on/off as they are enabled. Someone above mentioned that.

2) I organized everything just how I wanted it, and then saved that whole toolbar to the toolbar menu as the 'master' layout. Then I would copy that and only work from the copy - that way if it did become corrupted you could reset it. To reset it, you would have to right click 'customize toolbar' then drag some of the stacked items out of the corner, making a mess. Then you'd have to switch back to the 'master' and make a new copy, deleting the old. But wait! Make sure you don't just try to reboot from the master without clearing some of the stack out of the corner, because if you do it will corrupt your master that you've just tried to switch to. It's a lot but it beats reorganizing things.

 

Good luck

 

Kyle

 

 

[RL-inc]

thanks Kyle-

Attached are 3 screen shots of tool bars

Plan- toolbars basically as i want them

3d- basically in that same configuration

CAD- have moved some what- not sure why- may need to insert "empty space"?

 

in general I feel like I keep my toolbars in a consistent position and on in all views- 

unless they keep jumping around as they have been since this issue began.

[RL-inc]

Sorry-

CAD is actually 2nd image in order.,