GeneDavis

Annoying truss envelope at tail: how to eliminate?

Recommended Posts

I won't post the plan yet unless necessary, but I've a 35 foot span, 7:12 roof, scissors truss with 5:12 ceiling rising up 16" then goes flat, 2x6 top chord, 18" overhang, square not plumb fascia, 2x6 subfascia, 1x8 fascia.

 

No matter what, I get this, and when trying to edit the truss envelope (there is a 9.5" heel) to make it look real, I still get the spike.

2019-10-18_1127.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gene,

Maybe lower the roof plane or raise the ceiling plane. Haven't tried it,just a thought.

 

Have a great week end,Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you try building the truss with 1.5 bottom cord / energy heel and see if builds correctly, if that works then lock truss envelope and change bottom cord back to 5.5  force truss build

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you mean, the truss builds with the spike, or it happens after you edit.?

 

I know it is possible to edit the truss in elevation view, but I have had to zoom in

very very close to see all the handles, otherwise you get overlaps and spikes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

I won't post the plan yet unless necessary, but I've a 35 foot span, 7:12 roof, scissors truss with 5:12 ceiling rising up 16" then goes flat, 2x6 top chord, 18" overhang, square not plumb fascia, 2x6 subfascia, 1x8 fascia.

 

No matter what, I get this, and when trying to edit the truss envelope (there is a 9.5" heel) to make it look real, I still get the spike.

2019-10-18_1127.png

Post the same screenshot with the truss selected so we can see where the edit handles are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it may have been because the specs for the roof underwent changes, going from 7.5" heel to 9.5" when Ms Truss Eng ran the loads (we're sprayfoaming the roof to R49 in the cavities), then went back and forth on plumb tails or not, added gutters, put shadowboards one and off and back on, so the truss ends kept getting messed with.

 

So I made a small test plan, same specs for this roof but just one truss wide, and lo, the spike is there and cannot be edited away.

 

It is something that shows in 3D if I leave the truss framing layer on.  It shows in 2D sections and has to be CAD-masked to dress the section view for layout.

 

So, yeah, it's annoying.

 

Play with my model if you can and report.  If it happens to others, I'll report it to Chief.

TrussTest.plan

 

Edit:  The truss ends have been edited by me in this plan.  Just place a truss alongside and you'll see what Chief produces from the "draw."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

I thought it may have been because the specs for the roof underwent changes, going from 7.5" heel to 9.5" when Ms Truss Eng ran the loads (we're sprayfoaming the roof to R49 in the cavities), then went back and forth on plumb tails or not, added gutters, put shadowboards one and off and back on, so the truss ends kept getting messed with.

 

So I made a small test plan, same specs for this roof but just one truss wide, and lo, the spike is there and cannot be edited away.

 

It is something that shows in 3D if I leave the truss framing layer on.  It shows in 2D sections and has to be CAD-masked to dress the section view for layout.

 

So, yeah, it's annoying.

 

Play with my model if you can and report.  If it happens to others, I'll report it to Chief.

TrussTest.plan

 

Edit:  The truss ends have been edited by me in this plan.  Just place a truss alongside and you'll see what Chief produces from the "draw."

They can be edited perfectly in the truss detail. Note that edits in this view will revert if the truss is rebuilt. If there are multiples of the same truss, they will need to be opened, then closed to display those new edits.

image.thumb.png.ec5e4c493bb85f46c771ba0f87bb3212.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Must be me.  Here is what opens up when I select the truss for editing, and I cannot edit the truss envelope in the truss detail.  I can only edit it in a clipped section view.

2019-10-18_1733.png

2019-10-18_1734.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It isn't you I see that stuff (spikes, etc.) all the time.  The truss tails most always end up with a plumb cut.  I have made a suggestion for more control on plumb & square many years ago.  Perhaps it is time to try again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got it to work, but there still seems to be a bug with the square fascia. When you select it in section view, the selection still shows as a plumb fascia, so I'm guessing that's why the truss tail is not generating properly.

59119148_SquareTrussTail3.thumb.png.9ab025bc7984f1197ec5b0a43fdaf8b8.png

 

To get it to work, I edited the overhang portion of truss envelope in section view, then I trimmed it with a cad line in the truss detail.

434174080_SquareTrussTail2.thumb.png.29209b0da34d90f5df5b5755cecbe7e6.png1780846342_SquareTrussTail.thumb.png.d6e67d51d3d62af34e1cfc0333a3f612.png

TrussTest.plan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GeneDavis said:

Must be me.  Here is what opens up when I select the truss for editing, and I cannot edit the truss envelope in the truss detail.  I can only edit it in a clipped section view.

2019-10-18_1733.png

2019-10-18_1734.png

 

Make sure all layers are unlocked in the truss detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GeneDavis said:

Must be me.  Here is what opens up when I select the truss for editing, and I cannot edit the truss envelope in the truss detail.  I can only edit it in a clipped section view.

2019-10-18_1733.png

2019-10-18_1734.png

If accuracy is what your looking for, edit the truss members in the TRUSS DETAIL. Section view editing will only take you so far...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do I need to fly to Chief HQ in Idaho to get training?  I am lost here.

 

The "Framing, Roof Trusses" layer is unlocked as anyone who has downloaded my file can see.

 

I make certain I select the truss and open it for spec and validate that [  ] Lock Truss Envelope is indeed unchecked.  I then open the truss detail and the window displays the CAD detail of the truss and in a boundary-line envelope shows the envelope.  See attached.

 

I move the mouse to select the envelope to be able to edit it as I would any polyline.  The envelope disappears.  I am unable to select anything at that point.

2019-10-18_1947.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The polyline envelope is not editable in the truss detail.  Edit the truss members in the truss detail by unlocking the  Framing, Roof Trusses Layer.

 

The truss envelope can be edited in a section view camera.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

The "Framing, Roof Trusses" layer is unlocked as anyone who has downloaded my file can see.

 

It is not unlocked in your Truss Detail layer Set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is unclear we can Skype for a bit if it will save you a flight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow!  What a revelation!  Thank you all!  The truss detail layer set is something I never knew existed.

 

Why do you suppose the default is LOCKED when a truss detail is created from a truss build?  And why do you suppose that truss envelope editing is available in both the 2D section views and the 3D views, when the real editing is best done in the truss detail view?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

Why do you suppose the default is LOCKED when a truss detail is created from a truss build?

 

If you don't know what you are doing with this you can get into quite a mess in a real hurry.  Best that you know what is going on before unlocking the layer but once you understand it by all means change your default if you like.

 

Section view editing also has it's advantages by allowing access to the envelope in the context of other framing that would be lost in the truss detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And in conclusion, while the spike can be edited away, I still feel it is a bug and will take it to Chief.  The spike should not be there to begin with.

 

The job I would like to clean up has 49 different trusses and cleaning up the tails of each of these is just not worth it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bug has been known for some time,

Quote

- Support Answer -

Thursday, Sep 07, 2017 - 10:37 AM PDT
Hi Charles,
I have spent some time looking at your plan and I haven't been able to come up with the exact cause of your issue. I have submitted this plan to our development department to see if they can figure out the exact reason this is being caused.

That being said, I found that changing the height of the roof plane. Once you've changed the height of the roof plane, you'll need to then force the trusses to rebuild. You can do this by opening the trusses and checking the Force Truss Rebuild checkbox.

Thanks!
 

68751

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

And in conclusion, while the spike can be edited away, I still feel it is a bug and will take it to Chief.  The spike should not be there to begin with.

 

The job I would like to clean up has 49 different trusses and cleaning up the tails of each of these is just not worth it.

This is definitely one of the drawbacks of showing too much information. I like to show all the trusses as well, and usually it's no problem, but as houses continue to get more complex, it just becomes so much work to fight some of Chief's shortfalls, like those truss spikes, incorrect headers, attic walls, flush eaves, roof fascias, sill plates, stair stringers, floor trusses, deck framing, etc. That sounds much more negative that what I'd like...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How come you don't go with the engineered drawings of the trusses from the truss manufacturer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David,

 

   We do ,get engineered drawing from the supplier but like to have the model and plan as close as possible.

 

  If you do a rendering and it ,shows rafter tails shooting out into the wild blue yonder it doesn't look to good to the client, it looks like crap.

 

Ken

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the editing tips.  I have the same issue with a square cut eave.  I did all the editing and had it perfect but when I locked the truss envelope and multiple copied it the trusses reverted to plumb cuts.  Any ideas how top prevent it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

  • Member Statistics

    28009
    Total Members
    6254
    Most Online
    MattBlanc
    Newest Member
    MattBlanc
    Joined