Michael_Gia Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 This is a warning. If you're like me and use either Dropbox or iCloud or any other cloud storage solution then this is for you. As you know Chief actually works well for keeping your plans/layouts in ICloud or Dropbox folders. Great for road warriors, and I've never had a problem. The only downside is that your user library should NOT be relocated to the cloud. Although this would be great as it would eliminate the added step of continually exporting and importing your user library back and forth between your desktop and laptop. Well,... yesterday I decided to give it a try. I called Chief technical support first and they told me that they don't recommend it. They also said that if I've been using iCloud with success for some time then I could give it a try and the gentleman gave me the how-to. So I took the plunge and ported my user library with success to my iCloud folder. It worked for the first plan I opened up. The next plan I tried was a disaster. From that point on Chief was not able to "find" or "locate" any of my plans in iCloud. I apparently broke Chief's path to iCloud. I called support and they then said, yeah, we are aware of this problem, but don't have a fix yet. My first point is that Chief should have told me DON'T move your user library to the cloud - period!, - and not the nonchalant, give it a try.... I can still open plan/layout files that are stored on my hard disk locally or even on Dropbox but iCloud is broken for chief now, aparantly forever. My solution was to move all my files from iCloud to Dropbox so it's not the end of the world but it was a pretty bad experience. Wanted to share in case anyone had plans to do the same. Yes, I even tried using time machine to go back before the point where I had moved my user library, no luck. At this point I would also say that it's about time Chief offers its own Cloud storage solution and plan sharing capabilities for sharing and collaborating on projects. I would not mind paying the same amount I already fork out to Dropbox and iCloud, to a new ChiefCloud bundled with SSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Might want to add something about this to th "PC or Mac" thread. Reading your posts there "could " lead the uninitiated to do the same thing you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 From what I have been able to deduce through experimentation is that the Library files seem to be accessed from the disk drive by Chief as you access the Library menu, in other words the Library files do not appear to be preloaded into the program/memory when Chief is initially started. This could create a conflict with cloud syncing as there could be times when the syncing program is syncing the library files and Chief is trying to access them. Plan files seem to be a bit different, when they are open in Chief the syncing program can see this and as such it skips it until it is closed, thereby avoiding the issue of two programs trying to access the same file at the same time. One solution might be to turn off the cloud syncing program while you are using Chief and then turn it back on once you are finished. Microsoft OneDrive has an icon in the taskbar that provides quick access to sync pausing so it is a simple right click to engage or disengage syncing, there is also a menu that allows you to pause syncing for 2, 8 or 24 hours and then it will automatically resume syncing after the selected period. Not sure what options ICloud offers, from my understanding ICloud is not as sophisticated as OneDrive or DropBox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said: From what I have been able to deduce through experimentation is that the Library files seem to be accessed from the disk drive by Chief as you access the Library menu, in other words the Library files do not appear to be preloaded into the program/memory when Chief is initially started. This could create a conflict with cloud syncing as there could be times when the syncing program is syncing the library files and Chief is trying to access them. Plan files seem to be a bit different, when they are open in Chief the syncing program can see this and as such it skips it until it is closed, thereby avoiding the issue of two programs trying to access the same file at the same time. One solution might be to turn off the cloud syncing program while you are using Chief and then turn it back on once you are finished. Microsoft OneDrive has an icon in the taskbar that provides quick access to sync pausing so it is a simple right click to engage or disengage syncing, there is also a menu that allows you to pause syncing for 2, 8 or 24 hours and then it will automatically resume syncing after the selected period. Not sure what options ICloud offers, from my understanding ICloud is not as sophisticated as OneDrive or DropBox. iCloud does not have this feature as far as I know, regardless it would be a volatile solution since the minute you forget to turn off syncing you're toast. I was really surprised that there isn't a preference setting for choosing where Chief goes to locate the user library as it has for template and plan file locations. It seems all would be solved with this simple preference feature. Then again, I'm no software developer so "easy" is from my vantage point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 27 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said: iCloud does not have this feature as far as I know, regardless it would be a volatile solution since the minute you forget to turn off syncing you're toast. I was really surprised that there isn't a preference setting for choosing where Chief goes to locate the user library as it has for template and plan file locations. It seems all would be solved with this simple preference feature. Then again, I'm no software developer so "easy" is from my vantage point. Not sure the location has anything to do with it, it's the syncing program. How would a different folder location change this fact? The issue is that there is the potential that two different programs are trying to access the same file at the same time, that capability is not currently in the realm of most consumer grade software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJPotter Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Chief is programmed/designed to operate from one's hard drive or in very specialized cases from a local network. Services like Dropbox, One Drive etc are in terms of Chief Architect and Home Designer Software should not actively be used to work on plans in real time. I use cloud services only for sharing and storing of inactive .plan and .layout files. To do otherwise is to invite unnecessary trouble and loss. You can easily verify this with Chief Architect Inc. Tech Support during their office hours. DJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Michael_Gia said: My first point is that Chief should have told me DON'T move your user library to the cloud - period!, - and not the nonchalant, give it a try.... With all due respect, they told you they don't recommend it. It seems like perhaps you should be accepting the responsibility for doing something they recommended against. It's not their fault. Also, FWIW, not everyone who moves their libraries to the cloud has these problems either. Some people have done so without issue. I don't know what it is that you have done differently but if some people are doing it and it works for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 Just to reiterate. Putting the user library in the cloud, could cause problems for chief's path to plan and layout files in the future. The cloud works great for saving plan and layout files, but not for a location of your user library. I totally accept responsibility, and I was just making everyone aware of the possible and most likely pitfalls inherent for anyone else considering the same course of action. I apologize if my tone seemed like I was directing any criticism towards Chief. I knew better anyway and took a gamble at moving my user library. On the other hand, it is 2017 version X9, why is working in the cloud even an issue? For that I don't apologize and Chief must do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said: ....... On the other hand, it is 2017 version X9, why is working in the cloud even an issue? For that I don't apologize and Chief must do better. I concur, everything will soon be cloud based, WiFi will be everywhere and at the end of the season, the Padres will be in last place. It does not take a genius to understand these predictions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I use Dropbox for both Plans and the entire Chief Data Folder. This is not a problem as long as you have the paths set correctly in Chief to your local Dropbox Folder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 That's great Joe, I'm glad to hear it does actually work for some. I'm assuming you just simply grabbed the entire Chief Data Folder and dragged over to the cloud. I would be to chicken to try that out at this point, myself. I guess that was my problem - I had moved folders over piecemeal. I never thought of boldly dumping the entire Chief Data Folder in one fell swoop. However, you are aware that Chief strongly advises against that practice, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Michael - With Microsoft OneDrive you don't move, rename or duplicate any folders; you just tell OneDrive what folders you want synced to the cloud and it takes care of it all. You can change this at any time and it can be set differently for each of your computers and devices that are connected to your OneDrive. You need to be aware that none of these consumer cloud services are designed to allow you to run programs from, programs should always be left on your drive and in the directories defined during their installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said: Michael - With Microsoft OneDrive you don't move, rename or duplicate any folders; you just tell OneDrive what folders you want synced to the cloud and it takes care of it all. You can change this at any time and it can be set differently for each of your computers and devices that are connected to your OneDrive. You need to be aware that none of these consumer cloud services are designed to allow you to run programs from, programs should always be left on your drive and in the directories defined during their installation. I have no problem syncing. My problem is Chief losing its ability to locate plan/layout files after I move my user library to the cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael_Gia said: I have no problem syncing. My problem is Chief losing its ability to locate plan/layout files after I move my user library to the cloud. That has nothing to do with the cloud. Even on your main drive, If you move your plan and layout files to another directory or folder that is different than the one the plan or layout file was originally created/saved in then the file paths saved in the plans and layout files will need to be reassigned to the new location. That's why I like OneDrive as there is no need to change a files location in order to have it sync to the cloud. You need a better cloud service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 I'm probably not being clear but this isn't about me not placing files in the right place or not updating my preferences for Chief to save files to proper directory. I don't have a problem with any of that. What I am saying is that, if you move your user library into the cloud where you've already saved your plan files and where you've told Chief to look for your template plans/layouts etc, then Chief WILL lose its ability to locate or find those plan files on the future. This moving of your user library to the cloud will screw things up for you in the future. Go ahead, give it a try and see for yourself, but don't tell me I didn't tell you so. Perhaps as Joe has mentioned already the proper way is to move the entire Chief Data Folder to the cloud and not just the user library. I don't know, I haven't tried it. Also, this isn't a Mac vs PC thing. As the guy in technical support said, Chief doesn't have all the bugs worked out with Chief's ability to work over the "wire" as he put it. Maybe one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 We don't put the files on the cloud. We just put them in a folder (dropbox) on the local drive. Dropbox then syncs to the cloud and dropbox folders on our other computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 Yes, that's what I mean as well. I place the files in the local Dropbox folder on my hard drive and Dropbox uploads as an automatic feature. It's the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Michael - As I mentioned in my first posting on this, the library files can't be syncing while they are in use. Since they are part of the program files they also need to be in their designated directories for Chief to find them. As I also mentioned, with OneDrive you can do what you want without changing the directories but you must disable syncing while you are using the program to avoid the sync service and Chief from trying to access the files at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 8 hours ago, dshall said: the Padres will be in last place. And the Charger's will be in 1st place Not only will we use the cloud for storage, but all the programs will be web based, nothing will be on your computer. If you miss your payment , they can shut you down in an instant. You will only rent the programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard_Morrison Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I suspect that this is problem is highly dependent on which cloud service you are using. I have had my plan files and User Library on Dropbox for years without a single problem. This also includes all Data files. So, for example, any changes to my hotkeys or toolbars get sync'd, too. I tried OneDrive and had occasional problems, and the sync was much slower. My User Library is currently at 1.4GB, and it only takes a few seconds to sync on Dropbox. I am a huge Dropbox fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Just to reiterate and expand upon what some of the guys above have said... It's nowhere near as simple as whether or not to store things in the cloud. There are a LOT of things that come into play and I suspect this is the reason Chief recommends against it. It's not because it can't be made to work, it's because it can be tricky to set up and maintain if you don't know what you're doing. Here are just a few of the issues you need to consider... Knowing which cloud service you're using and how it works...Are you syncing files or just using it as remote storage? If syncing, are you manually syncing files or are they being synced automatically? If they're being synced automatically, WHEN are they being synced? And are you accessing files directly from the cloud or from a synced folder? As has already been mentioned, it is well worth noting that there are very few situations where files can be simultaneously accessed by 2 different programs and with Chief I don't believe it is possible AT ALL. Knowing your correct file paths and setting them up correctly in Chief Architect Preferences... It is especially worth noting that you CANNOT change ANYTHING in the file path. You can't move your Dropbox folder to a different location, you can't rename it, and you can't do any of the above with any of the associated sub-folders that Chief needs to access either. You cannot change ANYTHING about the file path to the necessary folders that Chief needs access to unless you also go back in and change the path in preferences. How stable your internet connection and cloud server is...If you're accessing the cloud directly instead of accessing synced folders, the smallest connectivity issues can mean the difference between working and not working. Anyway, I'm sure there can be even more to it than that even but my point is that it can get complicated pretty quickly and it's not so much that it can't be done but that you really have to know what you're doing and you have to be careful doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 One more thing. It's also important to make sure we're speaking the same language and comparing apples to apples... 15 hours ago, Michael_Gia said: So I took the plunge and ported my user library with success to my iCloud folder. 13 hours ago, Michael_Gia said: I was really surprised that there isn't a preference setting for choosing where Chief goes to locate the user library as it has for template and plan file locations. Did you move your User_Library.calibz file, did you move your Database Libraries folder, or did you move your Chief Architect Premier X9 Data folder? The latter most certainly DOES have a file path setting in preferences. And note that the 3 items I just mentioned aren't all the files Chief needs in order to run properly either, there are plenty more libraries, data folders, and program files to consider that could also potentially be placed elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 I moved my user library calibz file based on instructions from tech support. The way that I was told was to move your user library to the new location first. Then open Chief and change the "My Data Folder" to point to the new location. Then shut down Chief and re-open. It worked at this point and was able to work on a plan located on iCloud. The next morning I tried opening a different plan (on iCloud) and I got the error message "unable to locate said plan". I could still open any plan and work with Chief so long as that plan was not located on ICloud (where I keep all of my projects). So I could open old plans sitting on my local hard drive or even Dropbox but not any plans located on iCloud. I appparantly "broke" Chief's ability to find iCloud plan file paths. And it's irreparable apparently. Soooo... I changed my "My Data Folder" in preferences back to its original OOB setting to the local drive that Chief is installed on, moved all of my projects from ICloud to Dropbox and everything works except for my ability to ever use iCloud again to store plans. And I'm back to exporting and importing my user library back and forth between desktop and laptop. ...and I'm too chicken to try anything else such as deleting Chief and re-installing, or as Joe suggested, move my entire Chief X9 data folder to Dropbox. Which again is not advised by Chief. The program actually automatically creates or re-creates all of its pertinent sub-folders automatically in the new "location" for user library that you set in preferences, and not the other way around. That's why they tell you to close Chief right after you change this preference, and re-open. Of course I'm retracing my steps from memory of the instructions from tech support, so it's impossible to be sure 100% that a) I followed or understood the instructions correctly or b) I did everything right but can't remember exactly what the hell I did. That's why it says "Note: For Advanced Users Only" in the preferences dialogue box under the "Folders" tab. but I do know that it worked at first. I also know that when I called back tech support they told me they are aware of this issue and it happens on occasion which is why they recommend we don't move our user library to any cloud service for now. I spent some time with him on the phone trying a few different things with no avail. Hence my cautionary post. In short, if moving your user library to the cloud worked for you, you're lucky, otherwise don't try it, for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 One thing that is not quite clear in all of this is whether the files are being accessed directly from the cloud or from a directory on your hard drive that is linked/synced to the cloud. These are two distinctly different setups. If your setup is the former then you can't run any executable files directly from the cloud, they must be downloaded to your system first and run from there. Also, in most cases the cloud address is not like the address structure on your hard drive so if the program needs a particular file that only exists on the cloud then it is not going to find it as most programs only look for files on system mounted drives. The cloud in itself is not a system mounted drive in same sense as your C drive is. I believe most of us are using the latter setup which means we are only working with files that reside on our main system mounted drives. As such we are not working directly with the cloud files, they are just remotely stored copies that are used to facilitate multi device syncing and remote access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Gia Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 Yes, you are correct. The cloud files are simply local files that have the added functionality of automatically beaming up to the cloud when your computer is idle. However, Chief as most programs add whatever line of code into each file so it can find the bloody file (I'm clearly not a programmer) but this file id tag becomes messed up when you play around with the location of your user library location setting in preferences at least when it comes to that location being in iCloud. Maybe the problem is only with iCloud, but the support guy said it was a problem or can be a problem with any cloud storage option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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