Living Area ?


Joe_Carrick
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5 minutes ago, RL-inc said:

I have also had appraisers only calculate the floor area that the stair system started on and not the open area above.

This is the way I was taught in Appraisal School several years ago. However, appraisers and realtors never agree. Realtors here sometimes count everything under roof and seem to get away with it in the MRLS; it was always a battle, especially when the lender got involved. Having said all that, I don't live in the land of fruits and nuts - I pity you guys who do!

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6 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

What the heck just happened?  We went from talking about what we included as Living Area to the definition of FAR. 

Yep, and I was only interested in the first part and how it relates to Chief's Room and Wall options.

 

IAE, The definitions of Habitable, Conditioned and FAR vary from one city to the next.  It may also vary from one occupancy type to another.

 

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There is no universal method for appraisers, or realtors, or building inspection departments, etc. for measuring residential square footage. There are attempts at establishing a standard, such as ANSI Z765, and the HUD methodology, but very few jurisdictions have adopted them for use. As I stated before, I use the ANSI method, which is very simple and transparent - and it includes interior chases as Finished Area.

 

What is "Living Area", anyway? I've never heard the term outside of Chief; however, Chief's tools to measure Living Area provide a very close approximation of the result calculated using the ANSI method.

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I have this discussion with builders and owners from time to time. Of course, they always take the position that saves them money. I designed a builder's personal home on for a $/SF design fee and he would not let me count both levels of the stairwell. But he was happy when I designed many of his clients' homes to let me include both levels of the stairwell because his builder's fee was a $/SF fee.

 

 I use ANSI Z765 and say so in my contract. I have attached it for easy access along with a summary I put together for my use.

 

ANSI Z765-2003 Summary.pdf

ANSI Z765-2013.pdf

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13 minutes ago, rlackore said:

There is no universal method for appraisers, or realtors, or building inspection departments, etc. for measuring residential square footage. There are attempts at establishing a standard, such as ANSI Z765, and the HUD methodology, but very few jurisdictions have adopted them for use. As I stated before, I use the ANSI method, which is very simple and transparent - and it includes interior chases as Finished Area.

 

What is "Living Area", anyway? I've never heard the term outside of Chief; however, Chief's tools to measure Living Area provide a very close approximation of the result calculated using the ANSI method.

 

 

As I mentioned above - and Scott elaborated on- it is becoming increasingly important to determine who you are trying to satisfy with the definition of "Living Area" or "Habitable Space" or "Conditioned Space" or whatever the specific authority deems appropriate.

 

And once you do I wouldn't count on any of the others jumping on board with it :blink:

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What difference does it make?

 

Once had young couple change their mind on a floorplan after they signed on a 1900 sf house with 2 car attached.  She stated there should be no difference in price just because they changed to a 2800 sf with a 3 car attached..  True story!

 

Another time, I had an engineer threaten to sue because his sf did not equal the contract sf.  He only counted interior room space.  Measuring from drywall to drywall in each room, he subtracted all interior partion footprint.

 

btw, I have never see the building dept, tax assessor, appraiser's or realtor's square footage total equal my sf.

 

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OK, Here's a sample problem:

  • 20'x30' House = 600 sq.ft.
  • 2 equal rooms (A1 & A2) 20'x15' = 300 sq.ft. each
  • Chase in corner of Room A 2'x3' = 6 sq.ft. (Living Area - but -Not in Schedule)
  • Finish Schedule and the "standard_area" attribute shows Room A = 294 sq.ft.
  • Finish Schedule Total shows 594 sq.ft.
  • Living Area shows 600 sq.ft.

So, mark the interior walls of the Chase as "No Room Definition"

  • Now the Finish Schedules shows Room A as 300 sq.ft. and the total as 600 sq.ft.
  • Interior Elevations don't show the chase walls.

My conclusion is that something needs to be done so that the Chase Area is included in Room A.

 

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4 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said:

That's exactly why I make those voids and include them in the schedule, so they count.

 

Sure, but the Living Area of the void/chase should really be reported as a part of Room A.1 

The voids really don't belong in the Schedule.

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8 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Sure, but the Living Area of the void/chase should really be reported as a part of Room A.1 

The voids really don't belong in the Schedule.

All I'm saying is I have to include them unless something changes

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13 minutes ago, Kenoeightspot said:

Is this what you looking for

LIVING AREA.PNG

No, I want the area of the void to be included in the Bedroom Area.

It would work fine if I could just make those walls "No Room Definition" and still get the Interior Elevation to "See those Walls".

 

That's the suggestion I'm going to make. 

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1 hour ago, Joe_Carrick said:

No, I want the area of the void to be included in the Bedroom Area.

It would work fine if I could just make those walls "No Room Definition" and still get the Interior Elevation to "See those Walls".

 

That's the suggestion I'm going to make. 

 

I personally think this is a better solution.  It's the same suggestion I mentioned earlier but I thought it might make a little more sense if I showed you...

 

 

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10 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said:

I'm usually not in the habit of creating views of voids and duct spaces, unless something else is in the view, but nice one Michael.

 

Thanks Perry.  I really wasn't trying to show how to create views of voids and duct spaces though.  Just trying to offer Joe a solution for adding that area to it's "parent" room. 

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