Ridge_Runner Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, RL-inc said: I have also had appraisers only calculate the floor area that the stair system started on and not the open area above. This is the way I was taught in Appraisal School several years ago. However, appraisers and realtors never agree. Realtors here sometimes count everything under roof and seem to get away with it in the MRLS; it was always a battle, especially when the lender got involved. Having said all that, I don't live in the land of fruits and nuts - I pity you guys who do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: What the heck just happened? We went from talking about what we included as Living Area to the definition of FAR. Yep, and I was only interested in the first part and how it relates to Chief's Room and Wall options. IAE, The definitions of Habitable, Conditioned and FAR vary from one city to the next. It may also vary from one occupancy type to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlackore Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 There is no universal method for appraisers, or realtors, or building inspection departments, etc. for measuring residential square footage. There are attempts at establishing a standard, such as ANSI Z765, and the HUD methodology, but very few jurisdictions have adopted them for use. As I stated before, I use the ANSI method, which is very simple and transparent - and it includes interior chases as Finished Area. What is "Living Area", anyway? I've never heard the term outside of Chief; however, Chief's tools to measure Living Area provide a very close approximation of the result calculated using the ANSI method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesVolz Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I have this discussion with builders and owners from time to time. Of course, they always take the position that saves them money. I designed a builder's personal home on for a $/SF design fee and he would not let me count both levels of the stairwell. But he was happy when I designed many of his clients' homes to let me include both levels of the stairwell because his builder's fee was a $/SF fee. I use ANSI Z765 and say so in my contract. I have attached it for easy access along with a summary I put together for my use. ANSI Z765-2003 Summary.pdf ANSI Z765-2013.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL-inc Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, rlackore said: There is no universal method for appraisers, or realtors, or building inspection departments, etc. for measuring residential square footage. There are attempts at establishing a standard, such as ANSI Z765, and the HUD methodology, but very few jurisdictions have adopted them for use. As I stated before, I use the ANSI method, which is very simple and transparent - and it includes interior chases as Finished Area. What is "Living Area", anyway? I've never heard the term outside of Chief; however, Chief's tools to measure Living Area provide a very close approximation of the result calculated using the ANSI method. As I mentioned above - and Scott elaborated on- it is becoming increasingly important to determine who you are trying to satisfy with the definition of "Living Area" or "Habitable Space" or "Conditioned Space" or whatever the specific authority deems appropriate. And once you do I wouldn't count on any of the others jumping on board with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkwest Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 What difference does it make? Once had young couple change their mind on a floorplan after they signed on a 1900 sf house with 2 car attached. She stated there should be no difference in price just because they changed to a 2800 sf with a 3 car attached.. True story! Another time, I had an engineer threaten to sue because his sf did not equal the contract sf. He only counted interior room space. Measuring from drywall to drywall in each room, he subtracted all interior partion footprint. btw, I have never see the building dept, tax assessor, appraiser's or realtor's square footage total equal my sf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 OK, Here's a sample problem: 20'x30' House = 600 sq.ft. 2 equal rooms (A1 & A2) 20'x15' = 300 sq.ft. each Chase in corner of Room A 2'x3' = 6 sq.ft. (Living Area - but -Not in Schedule) Finish Schedule and the "standard_area" attribute shows Room A = 294 sq.ft. Finish Schedule Total shows 594 sq.ft. Living Area shows 600 sq.ft. So, mark the interior walls of the Chase as "No Room Definition" Now the Finish Schedules shows Room A as 300 sq.ft. and the total as 600 sq.ft. Interior Elevations don't show the chase walls. My conclusion is that something needs to be done so that the Chase Area is included in Room A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 That's exactly why I make those voids and include them in the schedule, so they count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said: That's exactly why I make those voids and include them in the schedule, so they count. Sure, but the Living Area of the void/chase should really be reported as a part of Room A.1 The voids really don't belong in the Schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesVolz Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I think walls marked "No Room Definition" should show in elevations. Invisible walls can be used when you want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, CharlesVolz said: I think walls marked "No Room Definition" should show in elevations I would agree with this. It would be a logical thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: Sure, but the Living Area of the void/chase should really be reported as a part of Room A.1 The voids really don't belong in the Schedule. All I'm saying is I have to include them unless something changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 OK, the conversation has shifted a little… I include those chases in living area/living space calculations; HOWEVER, I do not include those as part of the room square footage. That's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Joe, to get what you are after maybe try drawing a VERY short section of wall set to no room definition at one of the transitions. It might be a little tricky but it should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenoeightspot Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Is this what you looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Kenoeightspot said: Is this what you looking for No, I want the area of the void to be included in the Bedroom Area. It would work fine if I could just make those walls "No Room Definition" and still get the Interior Elevation to "See those Walls". That's the suggestion I'm going to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Joe_Carrick said: No, I want the area of the void to be included in the Bedroom Area. It would work fine if I could just make those walls "No Room Definition" and still get the Interior Elevation to "See those Walls". That's the suggestion I'm going to make. I personally think this is a better solution. It's the same suggestion I mentioned earlier but I thought it might make a little more sense if I showed you... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Pretty clever solution. I'm still going to ask CA to make "No Room Definition" Walls visible in the Room Wall Elevations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I'm usually not in the habit of creating views of voids and duct spaces, unless something else is in the view, but nice one Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said: I'm usually not in the habit of creating views of voids and duct spaces, unless something else is in the view, but nice one Michael. Thanks Perry. I really wasn't trying to show how to create views of voids and duct spaces though. Just trying to offer Joe a solution for adding that area to it's "parent" room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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