New To Chief. Is There A Keynote Tool?

[CARMELHILL]

I don't know why, but after I save the plants to my user catalog, when I reinsert them into the plan for placement, I lose the ability to separately move it's label from the plan symbol itself.

 

Edit, I think I figured it out. When I selected the plant to save into the User Catalog, I don't think I window selected the plant AND it's label. Shoot. Now I have to do all my keynotes all over again.

[johnny]

I hate all these silly work arounds. Chief.....GIVE US REAL KEYNOTES.

I have to agree. Its one thing if we are talking about something the App doesn't do and we can find a way around it, but its another thing if the App clearly can handled something and there isn't any good reason the workaround is required. Michael demonstrates well that Chief has all the note/schedule abilities it needs - but someone at Chief just needs to give us the ability to make user defined notes without any work-around.

[Alaskan_Son]

I don't know why, but after I save the plants to my user catalog, when I reinsert them into the plan for placement, I lose the ability to separately move it's label from the plan symbol itself.

Edit, I think I figured it out. When I selected the plant to save into the User Catalog, I don't think I window selected the plant AND it's label. Shoot. Now I have to do all my keynotes all over again.

I don't think you should have to do that. The only time I've seen a callout that can't be moved independent of the symbol is when the label field is blank when you add it to the library (I actually pointed this out in the video above too) . Can you export a couple of those symbols and attach them so one of us can check them out?

[Alaskan_Son]

I have to agree. Its one thing if we are talking about something the App doesn't do and we can find a way around it, but its another thing if the App clearly can handled something and there isn't any good reason the workaround is required. Michael demonstrates well that Chief has all the note/schedule abilities it needs - but someone at Chief just needs to give us the ability to make user defined notes without any work-around.

I agree. There's a huge potential for custom schedules of all sorts with relatively few changes to the software. I for one have just been trying to help offer some solutions till we can get Chief to give us some better options.

[Alaskan_Son]

I don't know why, but after I save the plants to my user catalog, when I reinsert them into the plan for placement, I lose the ability to separately move it's label from the plan symbol itself.

 

Edit, I think I figured it out. When I selected the plant to save into the User Catalog, I don't think I window selected the plant AND it's label. Shoot. Now I have to do all my keynotes all over again.

 

I don't think you should have to do that. The only time I've seen a callout that can't be moved independent of the symbol is when the label field is blank when you add it to the library (I actually pointed this out in the video above too) . Can you export a couple of those symbols and attach them so one of us can check them out?

 

I just double checked this to verify and confirmed.  You don't need to group select anything when adding to library.  You just need to make sure the label field is not left blank or that Automatic is selected.  Test it with one of your notes first, but all you should have to do is drop your notes in the plan,  group select them, make those adjustments, and then add back to your library. 

[CARMELHILL]

I spent all night till 4am playing with this idea and then all day today using it on a project. It has potential but there are so many glitches. Works great in plan view. But it's not easy, or even possible, to insert the plant symbols in elevation. So you have to insert in plan, then go to elevation, attempt to find the label, see if you can move it, then check other elevation views to ensure they aren't conflicting or just hide that label in that view.

 

What a hassle. I would definitely use this in my commercial floor plans but I dont think its useable for sections and elevations. Alaska, cannu share a video of how u use it in elevation and section. Your placecard holding invisible rooms were genius. I forgot u could set a schedule to only report from a specific room.

 

Question... is there a 2D symbol that can be used like this so I dont have to worry about the label showing up in the wrong plane or in different elevation views?

[Alaskan_Son]

I spent all night till 4am playing with this idea and then all day today using it on a project. It has potential but there are so many glitches. Works great in plan view. But it's not easy, or even possible, to insert the plant symbols in elevation. So you have to insert in plan, then go to elevation, attempt to find the label, see if you can move it, then check other elevation views to ensure they aren't conflicting or just hide that label in that view.

What a hassle. I would definitely use this in my commercial floor plans but I dont think its useable for sections and elevations. Alaska, cannu share a video of how u use it in elevation and section. Your placecard holding invisible rooms were genius. I forgot u could set a schedule to only report from a specific room.

Question... is there a 2D symbol that can be used like this so I dont have to worry about the label showing up in the wrong plane or in different elevation views?

I'll try to make a video when I have a little more spare time. In the meantime, here are a few notes that might help you out...

 

-You'll probably just have to get used to dropping your note symbol in plan view. An extra step yes, but if you get in the habit it's really not that big a deal IMO. The fact is that the note has to remain between your camera and the closest object. Thus the benefit of dropping in plan first.

 

-Plant labels have 2 very useful characteristics...

1. If the rotate handle is moved while in plan view so that it is perpendicular with any given camera view it will disappear in that view. This is one of the useful ways to hide the label in unwanted views.

2. If the label is moved away from the symbol (like with the place holder room technique) it is only moved in that one camera view.

 

-Due to fact number 2 above, all you really have to do is create an extra floor or series of floors, set your schedule to display only objects from the desired floor, drop the note symbol in front of your camera (in plan view) and then drag the label down in elevation view.

 

-You can also just drop the various note symbols onto unique layers and turn those on and off as necessary. I know a lot of guys don't do this, but I personally "Make Copy Of Active Layer Set" for almost each and every view I send to layout. This makes layer control an absolute breeze for things like this.

 

-The above things don't seem all that complicated to me personally, but we all think and work differently.  If you like the automated plan note idea for plan views but using it for elevations just seems like too much for you, you can always just do notes for elevations manually. 

 

Anyway, those are just a few ideas. Hopefully they help.

[CARMELHILL]

-Plant labels have 2 very useful characteristics...

1. If the rotate handle is moved while in plan view so that it is perpendicular with any given camera view it will disappear in that view. This is one of the useful ways to hide the label in unwanted views.

2. If the label is moved away from the symbol (like with the place holder room technique) it is only moved in that one camera view.

 

-Due to fact number 2 above, all you really have to do is create an extra floor or series of floors, set your schedule to display only objects from the desired floor, drop the note symbol in front of your camera (in plan view) and then drag the label down in elevation view.

 

Thanks for these two tips. That was a huge help alone. Now I understand why I was having so much trouble last night. The rotate handle is a huge help.

[HumbleChief]

...What a hassle....

That's my general feeling about a lot of Chief's tools. I make a simple text key note schedule and it takes less than 2 minutes if you have to create it from scratch, no time, other than changing text, if it's in your template.

 

Very much like my experience with the new Story Pole tool. Another hassle trying to get everything set up correctly, or another 2 minutes (max.) to set my template Markers manually, maybe another minute if I have to add another marker/height location..

 

I get the fascination and challenge with getting these tool to bend into something that's genuinely useful, but to me they are anything but.

[Alaskan_Son]

To be fair, setting up an automated schedule only takes a few minutes as well. The 2 biggest challenges just seem to be...

1. Trying to explain the techniques to others.

2. Modifying the techniques to fit your own personal needs.

Some major benefits to an automated schedule over a manually created one...

1. No need to keep track of of any numbering or syncing. Add a note wherever you want and the note schedule is automatically updated, delete a note and schedule is automatically updated. Want a note moved to the top of the list? Just drag it up in the schedule and the rest are automatically renumbered.

2. No need to adjust and move notes around to make room for text wrapping issues.

3. No need to manually create and adjust boxes, columns, headers, etc.

Keeping manual notes is definitely a valid technique and I won't knock it. But using an automated schedule has a lot of benefits and from experience I can tell you that its not nearly as complicated as it may first seem.

[dshall]

That's my general feeling about a lot of Chief's tools. I make a simple text key note schedule and it takes less than 2 minutes if you have to create it from scratch, no time, other than changing text, if it's in your template.

 

Very much like my experience with the new Story Pole tool. Another hassle trying to get everything set up correctly, or another 2 minutes (max.) to set my template Markers manually, maybe another minute if I have to add another marker/height location..

 

I get the fascination and challenge with getting these tool to bend into something that's genuinely useful, but to me they are anything but.

 

 

Boy oh boy,  I am on the same page as Larry.  I avoid the plant schedule for key notes and  I avoid the story pole,  good the tools are there,  but for me there are simpler more efficient methods to get what I want.

 

Since I am on a roll,  I wish CA would take the time to learn what we power users go through to create a model that is a little "out of the box".  I wish they had the interest in seeing the hassle I go through to create something that is very very typical in the remodeling world.  Yes I have reported the issues,  unfortunately I think it goes into the great abyss and nothing becomes of it..... a waste of my time reporting the issue.  

[javatom]

When you start to hear stories about staying up til 4 AM to get it to work, I don't think I would be too interested.  Just type a note and move on with your day.

[DRAWZILLA]

I use the plant schedule notes on every plan I do, once it's set up on my template--done. Story pole dims, also set up correctly and done.

[DavidJPotter]

I would like be able to duplicate the Joe and Perry method of plan notes. I watched Perry's video twice but he did not show exactly how to set everything up from a-Z. Will you guys help an old guy out?

 

DJP

[DRAWZILLA]

David I will e-mail you a plan with the schedule in it.

[Alaskan_Son]

I would like be able to duplicate the Joe and Perry method of plan notes. I watched Perry's video twice but he did not show exactly how to set everything up from a-Z. Will you guys help an old guy out?

DJP

Did you watch my video in post #11 David? It goes over the basics of the process pretty well and step by step. I made it specifically for people new to the process...

 

 

The only notable thing I wish I had included in the basics was that you can block your custom schedule and add it to your library (if you don't like to keep stuff like that in your template plan). It just needs to be dropped in the plan and exploded.

[johnny]

I have to say, I hear what people are saying about using straight text for keynotes, but i've made so many errors when you go change or add notes - going back and re-sequencing them. That is a true hassle as well.

x8 was a great release, but its somewhat inexcusable (i say that joking-semi-serious) we didn't get 1 or 2 general notes schedule ability. I can see that giving us 100% custom schedules may take some time, but giving us copies of existing notes for general purposes would be very easy - again, Michael is showing it can be done now with some effort.

What we REALLY need in the future is the ability to set an object or poly label to a call out - and have a note/label that gets reported to the schedule. That would be cool.

[johnny]

Since I am on a roll,  I wish CA would take the time to learn what we power users go through to create a model that is a little "out of the box".  I wish they had the interest in seeing the hassle I go through to create something that is very very typical in the remodeling world. 

 

Amen....can I get a hallelujah?

 

Its little things like watching a CA demonstration of what was supposed to be making a CD ready drawing and the lady makes something that not only wouldn't qualify as CD ready but actually is completely messed up.  I shook my head when I saw that the other day and realized that is 1/2 the problem - CA does such an awesome job at the eye candy stuff the CD process hasn't improved much.

[CARMELHILL]

It's called marketing, or fluff. Show them how the program "can" be, but in true everyday use, it falls short. Off topic, but why can't the materials list self regenerate after a change? Why do you have to manually force it to recalculate. Shouldn't that be easy stupid to program? Why can't we reverse edit schedules, like door and window settings in the schedules that will then revise the respective items in the floor plan. Cheez, Vectoworks had that in 2011.

 

I see improvements in the program from each release, but I haven't yet seen anything that is a total game changer to me.

 

This probably falls into a BIM or Ruby topic, but imagine how great it would be if every single item could have a record or label that we could turn on and off for plan views, elevations, and sections? Imagine generating your elevation and keynotes with a schedule pop up for corners board, siding, roofing, etc.. In plan view your foundation slab, walls, footings, etc. would be labeled already.

 

But then again, imagine I won Powerball.

[HumbleChief]

Here's my challenge. I don't want to use straight text notes for all the reasons noted above but I don't want to use Chief's tools even less. If Chief came up with a custom schedule tool tomorrow I would be very surprised if it wasn't inflexible and clunky at best. It's just not what Chief has shown they are good at.

 

I saw a video with Vector Works schedules and it was a revelation. Not that one should be surprised by the functionality that was put into its function, after all it is 2016,  but that Chief seems so far away from a similar tool. Chief programmers are good at what they do but custom schedules and the like are not in their wheel house IMO.

 

Something I would like is a very flexible (fonts, sizes, layout tools, headers, merge cells, borders, etc.) Excel type spreadsheet schedule maker that would allow for custom schedules that looked the way you liked to fit into your design.

 

But the problem at Chief remains I think, and that may be that they are focused on the great 3D stuff we have all benefitted from but when it comes to CD's there's just no one there who knows what goes into creating great CD's. I get it as their business has grown with the focus they have had but it leaves the professional who prepares plans for a living with a few less tools than truly needed to create great CD's.

[mkennedy2000]

Are we no longer able to control the callout size from the schedule? Using this method my callouts are too small.

The snip shows the note block I curerntly use, I just copy paste callouts and renumber them as I go.

In the plant schedule setup the callout is teeeeeeny and I cant remember how to change it?

[dshall]

....... - CA does such an awesome job at the eye candy stuff the CD process hasn't improved much.

 

 

I recognized this 10 years ago,  it just took me awhile to realize that it was not my deficiency,  but CA's deficiency.

 

That being said,  I do recognize it is very difficult to cover all situations,  but there are a lot of very typical conditions that should be a lot easier to model.

[johnny]

I recognized this 10 years ago,  it just took me awhile to realize that it was not my deficiency,  but CA's deficiency.

 

That being said,  I do recognize it is very difficult to cover all situations,  but there are a lot of very typical conditions that should be a lot easier to model.

 

One aspect of Chief I think we sometimes forget is that everything they do in Premier is dumbed-down to make their DIY products.  None of us really know how much that market effects the "pro" version of CA, but the problem with Chief is they have somewhat opposing views from their clients as to what's important.  How important is sophisticated modeling and scheduling to a DIY user?

 

I really think Chief has a lot of potential, but I often think that other apps designed only for professionals may end up moving so far past Chief in key areas perhaps I am wasting my time on a product that is attached to DIY niche market.  This also explains why the eye candy aspect has been so important.

[Nicinus]

One aspect of Chief I think we sometimes forget is that everything they do in Premier is dumbed-down to make their DIY products.  None of us really know how much that market effects the "pro" version of CA, but the problem with Chief is they have somewhat opposing views from their clients as to what's important.  How important is sophisticated modeling and scheduling to a DIY user?

 

I really think Chief has a lot of potential, but I often think that other apps designed only for professionals may end up moving so far past Chief in key areas perhaps I am wasting my time on a product that is attached to DIY niche market.  This also explains why the eye candy aspect has been so important.

 

I had the same concerns about this after using Chief for a while but then was fortunate enough to spend some time with them up in the impossible to spell city. I think this definitely used to be true, they came from very basic origins with a founder that wanted to create his own house plans and then felt the product could be useful for others. It is now a sizeable company though and ambitions have grown. They say Chief Architect reflects at least half of the revenue and most new development is done for Chief and then trickled down after a while.

 

I must agree that there is a concern in that this history has led to the company being 'backwards' driven for lack of a better description. Since their professional/Chief Architect market demographic seems to be older with relatively few architects in it, the majority of user requests and needs are not going to push the software into cutting edge territory anytime soon. We see that even in this forum, any comparisons to other other tools such as Revit and Archicad are typically frowned upon, and expressing a certain frustration over workarounds is seen as not being proficient enough, and so on. If I was Chief I would probably also wonder about the return of investment of doing the program multi user or becoming more advanced in some areas.

 

Then again, I think X8 was a major step forward and the fact that a user panel was created. I realized that most of my wishes wouldn't be implemented, if nothing else for time restrictions, but at least they were on the table and I know they've heard them. The next couple of releases will tell, I'm hoping X10 will be major since it is such a version milestone. With Archicad and Revit being $5-7K products I truly believe they have a major opportunity to insert themselves into the architect market.

[johnny]

Programs like Vectorworks and Archicad may have incredible BIM schedules and features, and my office is 80% Vectorworks still (2D primary).  However, those other apps can be a lot more modeling/time intensive on otherwise simple things in CA. Here is another architect who posted a good video on building an eyebrow window inside Vectorworks.  Most will watch this and think "good lord I am glad this can be done in CA much faster", and that is why I think we are all trying to make CA work for us.

 

 

Now, the problem with CA can be you get to the general goal faster but if you run into a glitch or problem all the time savings is out the window.  Thats where I hope knowing this app on the Glenn W. level could be MUCH MUCH better.